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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 773 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's guest is an adult living with type one diabetes who is also a mother. Her child does not have type one, but does have other autoimmune issues. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice and should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. We have a new sponsor today. So in a moment, I will tell you who that is. But before we get to that, I want to remind you that if you're looking for the diabetes Pro Tip series, they begin at episode 210 In your podcast player, you can find them by searching Juicebox Podcast pro tip in any of your audio apps, or you can find them at juicebox podcast.com diabetes pro tip.com, or on the private Facebook group under the feature tab. If you're a US resident who has type one or is the caregiver of someone with type one, please go to T one D exchange.org. Ford slash juice box and complete the survey. It will take you fewer than 10 minutes. It is absolutely anonymous and HIPAA compliant

this episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by athletic greens, makers of ag one, I started taking ag one because I don't always have the most balanced diet and I needed some nutritional insurance with one delicious scoop of ag one you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins, minerals, Whole Foods sourced ingredients, probiotics, and adaptogens Learn more at my link athletic greens.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored today by Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes are using insulin and once some of the features that are offered by an insulin pump, but you don't want a pump. If that's you, you're looking for the in pen from Medtronic diabetes. Get started today at in pen today.com

Tziporah 2:18
Hi, good morning. I'm Sephora.

Scott Benner 2:22
Alright, Sephora. I did get it right before when we were talking. You did something about you. I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic with me when you said yes.

Tziporah 2:34
It's a good guess that I'd be sarcastic. But you did get it right.

Scott Benner 2:37
So Tziporah. Not Sephora. How many people hit you with that? Like they?

Tziporah 2:45
Like the makeup store? Yes. That's Japanese beer. Nope. Neither of those. Not

Scott Benner 2:50
you. Right. And it's a name you go by? Right? You don't have like a nickname? Yeah, good. That's lovely. What's your deal? You have diabetes, you make a baby that has diabetes.

Tziporah 3:01
I have diabetes, I made a baby that does not have diabetes yet. As far as I know. How old were you when you were diagnosed? I was diagnosed a month shy of my second birthday in 1981.

Scott Benner 3:14
Wow. Wow, about that. That's Young.

Tziporah 3:21
That's young. And I'm old. And that is real.

Scott Benner 3:25
So I I spoke with somebody yesterday, who's had diabetes for 45 years. But was my age. And the entire conversation made me feel old every time something came up, or when they understood my references, which I even found bothersome for some. We're still getting that microphone touching something or you know, don't be sorry, you talking with your hands and breathing. I'm gonna stop. Stop breathing, please. Sorry. I made I made a person recorded a closet yesterday. So they come on, and I immediately I'm like, Are you in a room without carpeting? And they go, how do you know that? And I said, I can't I can't do it. Within here. It's all echoey. And she's like, I could go in the closet. And I was like, Fine. Perfect. So she sat on a stepladder with her laptop on a piece of luggage and very nice. Okay, so Okay, let me break this apart in my head. So I understand. So 81 Was that right? Yeah. And it's 2021 Now, it's 2022 where I am. Is it really? 2022 now, so let's go 91 2001 2011 2021. You've had diabetes for 41 years.

Tziporah 4:40
That's right. It'll be 41 in June,

Scott Benner 4:42
and you're calling 43 old? Yes. All right. We'll see about that. I can now hold you in a second. How old is your child or children?

Tziporah 4:53
She's 11.

Scott Benner 4:55
Okay, and is there any other type one in your family? way.

Tziporah 5:02
I was gonna say no, except I have a cousin of my mother's who died in his teenage years with type one and this was like, you know, early 1900s That was all I got

Scott Benner 5:14
a born before insulin. Yeah, that's just that's really a shame. How about other autoimmune stuff in your family?

Tziporah 5:21
Oh yeah. So my daughter has alopecia. So she has no hair. So every time somebody comments on my hair, my hair is brushed against the microphone. Can you move your hair from a microphone? I think you know, that is a thing for me. And it's not for her. So my my daughter has alopecia. My mother has alopecia. We've got autoimmune thyroid, a couple of other autoimmune things. And my niece and nephew.

Scott Benner 5:47
Well, how is that alopecia is something you're born with?

Tziporah 5:52
No, it's I mean, it's, it sort of is activated in a similar way to the diabetes. So she had a full head of hair. Curly, awesome. Like it was one of the first things people noticed about her before she opened her mouth, which was the second and loudest thing people notice about her. And, and then it all started falling out when she was like three and a half.

Scott Benner 6:13
So you think she just had an illness or something and her autoimmune response? Yeah. Alopecia. What is a child that young? Do do? I mean, do you wear wigs? Or do you just go with it?

Tziporah 6:27
You know, I think every family is different. Every kid's different. She just sort of has always worked what she's had. So she did headbands for a while she occasionally did crazy hats. And now she just doesn't do anything. And feels mostly, I think, pretty comfortable in her own skin about it, which is awesome.

Scott Benner 6:46
Yeah. Is it a complete loss? Like, is her head like, does it look like? I mean, I'm trying to think of how to say this, like, does it look like she just shaved her head? Or is there some hair or how does it

Tziporah 6:58
so alopecia has different manifestations. She has the kind where she's basically got no body hair anywhere. She's got no eyebrows, no eyelashes, no hair on her head. So it doesn't even look like a shave. Because there's like no stubble. No, nothing.

Scott Benner 7:14
I see what other problems that I'm not thinking of does not have in body hair present. Oh,

Tziporah 7:20
well, it's cold season. And so we don't often think about the hairs in our noses and what it does to the snot sorry. But hers just runs. I mean, like, there's nothing to catch it. So you know, when she gets a cold, her nose is real runny. The eyelashes do protect things from getting in the eyes. So, you know, she has to be a little bit more cautious about stuff getting into her eyes. Probably her ears too, although I haven't looked in there in a minute.

Scott Benner 7:47
Hmm, it just alopecia sounds like a radio name from the 80s. Like how you doing? It's alopecia? Yeah, but instead it's horrible.

Tziporah 7:56
Yeah. I mean, it can be, you know, I've talked to her a bunch about this over the years. And as she gets older, you know, her own narrative about it is evolving. So there's treatments now, for example, that can help with turning off the auto immune response and regrowing hair and lots of people. And I said, Hey, you know, do you want to talk to somebody about looking into this? And she said, No, I kind of like the way I am. And so it's just one of those things that I think she's integrated into her identity and how she moves through the world and her friends are down with it. And you know, it doesn't mean she doesn't, you know, get snide remarks or side eyes or whatever, from time to time, but I think she is, you know, she walks around like, she's fine. You know what I mean?

Scott Benner 8:41
Hey, I'm gonna ask a question that will like initially sound slightly weird, but I'm getting to it. So by your name, and I'm guessing Jewish. Yes. Okay. Good guests. Yeah, yeah. Well, look at me, I'm a I'm a real gene. Reason I asked was, how does? How does a person being maybe your daughter's not but how does a person being more dark complected look without like, I guess I'm trying to figure out how much of your hair color makes me think of a person that's being dark complected where is your child? Not classically? All skin?

Tziporah 9:19
She? I would say, you know, she's pretty fair skinned, actually. But I will tell you, like eyebrows make a big difference in terms of somebody's face. Like, I'm looking at your picture on your zoom screen here. And I'm trying to figure out like, what would you look like without eyebrows? That's weird. Sorry, probably. Nobody's ever told you that. But it does really change the look of somebody's face. But it's also been so long since I've seen her with eyebrows that it's just her face.

Scott Benner 9:47
Yeah. Okay. All right. So is diabetes, something you worry about for her?

Tziporah 9:55
I do always have it in the back of my mind. Like as I've listened to podcast up So as you're seeing posts on the Facebook group with parents who are wondering if their kid in illness who's not diabetic is, you know, secretly holding on to a high blood sugar like I've definitely got that sort of all the time. She did do trial that she was negative for antibodies at that time and I never re enrolled or retested or anything, I just am crossing my fingers, you know? Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:23
I don't say it here very often. Or maybe I've never said it, but I sometimes I look at my son, and I'm just like, please don't get diabetes. Again, just like it just I never say it out loud. I don't think it changes my demeanor. But every once in a while, like, you know, if he goes through something, and I don't know, it's like, well, that's enough. Like he doesn't need more like not that anybody needs more. But it's, it does run through my head sometimes like, Yeah, but and I think I look at Arden and I'm like God, like nothing else. Like please nothing else like this is I get an amen. So

Tziporah 10:56
when my kid was little, and we were just sort of peeling off the alopecia thing and her being different. I said, you know, if you look around everybody's data thing, at least one thing. And I say no, my things, diabetes and your things alopecia. And even from a young age, she could sort of start to appreciate that nobody gets from here to the end, wherever that is, like without a something. Her something is quite visible. Mine is like, mostly invisible. But the other thing that I didn't quite crack to her at that age is like, just because you get one thing doesn't mean you'll never get another thing. And in fact, on the autoimmune spectrum, if you get one thing, you know, you might well get another or third or for whatever. So I do wish for her to not have more things like you wish for Arden or you wish for your son.

Scott Benner 11:41
Yeah. No, I I don't know. It's just, I can remember how it felt to find out that Arden had hypo thyroidism. And I was I was so mad. Just like I wasn't angry when she got diabetes. I was sad. I was angry about hypothyroidism. So I angry. No, I felt unfair. And she was still young. And out, it's completely out of your control. So it's not even, you know what I mean? Like, people give you a baby. And they're like you're turning to a person and keep it safe is really your to your to you don't have any other functions early as their parents, right, like you want them to grow up to. I mean, I don't know about everybody else. We had basic like concepts about raising kids like I, I seriously, at the core of how I raise my children, I just wanted that when they left the company of others, that people didn't go kids. You know what I mean? Like I just I wanted them to be a reasonable person. And whatever that meant for them, however, what direction they took it, and I never had many thoughts about that. I just, I just wanted them to be a person that other people didn't like recoil from. And I know that's like, maybe sounds like overly simplistic. And I and that was it. Like seriously, I didn't really think about much more of it than that. And I was doing it, like my kids ended up really well, in that regard. And then all the other stuff I was supposed to do. You know, I fed them and gave them clothes and kept them warm, and they're loved and they know it all that worked really well. And then I just couldn't keep them from being sick. And it just feels like it feels like

Tziporah 13:27
to say it sounds like defeat.

Scott Benner 13:30
Yeah. And it's also one of those things where they're like, listen, the army just came in and kicked your ass, they'll be back. You won't be any more prepared to fight them off the next time

Tziporah 13:40
and you won't know when they're coming.

Scott Benner 13:43
So you feel like a you feel like a victim a little bit. And that's unfair. Because like you said, and by the way, I've said on here a million times and really believe it. Nobody gets out alive. You know, nobody gets through it unscathed. Everybody gets a thing. And so I even feel that that's fair. But

Tziporah 14:04
well it's different when you're looking at your kid your non asked kid I mean like the one that you brought into the world and invested all that stuff and like I would guess that many parents look at their kids and just wish for their path to be completely smooth all the time. You know, I'm also the kind of person who thinks in retrospect of course not what not when it's my own kid but whatever bumps they have are going to help them be the person that you want them to be you know, like how they manage adversity or how they relate with other people through it or what they own and what they don't want and you know right now becomes part of that

Scott Benner 14:42
Yeah, I mean I could make an argument in a similar but different direction I first of all I'm a pressure makes diamonds person myself like I don't think that I mean, I don't know to use like a big example and an unfair one because I don't know or like I wouldn't want my kid to be a Kardashian. You don't like that kind of thing. Like, I think you need some sort of some some troubles gotta come your way, right? You have to learn how to fight through things. And but I only say that I guess with comfort knowing that my kids are kind of psychologically centered. Because if my children were depressed or anxious or super anxious or something like that, I might even say to you like, oh God, like, you know, why can't their coach or their teacher or whoever, like cut them a break? They don't you know, they don't? I don't know. I don't see any of that stuff much differently, I guess. Yeah. It's like you said, it's the thing that impacts you is the is the thing that you have a sensitivity to. And I may have just referenced something that we talked about before we recorded so sorry about that. All right. Yeah. All right. Why the hell are you on this podcast? Let's figure that out.

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Tziporah 19:51
You know that's a really good question. I was listening to some of your other episodes where you ask people like what made you want to do this and so I went back to my litany of Facebook message Just to you, and I'm thinking, why did I ever reach out to him? You know, the first couple of things I sent were like, Hey, have you ever thought about this on the podcast? Have you ever looked at that? And mostly, those questions were out of my own experience are wondering, like, is this a diabetes thing? And then one day I wrote to and I was like, Look, I don't really know if I have anything that would be of use to anybody else. But here's all the stuff I got. And if any, it would be cool. Let me know. Yeah. Well, and I'm sure and then you're like, Oh, you're short for let's get you on the podcast.

Scott Benner 20:30
Don't give away that I don't have any real insight into sort of, I don't know, rules or anything like that. They do. Like I'm really I'm sure. And I'm like, good enough to get on. We can

Tziporah 20:42
Well, I mean, in fairness, you were like, Oh, you're short. You can wait a really long time before you record. And if you still want to do

Scott Benner 20:48
it and do it. Well, that that is and I do feel bad about that every time. No, that's all right. Yeah, it is such a long i We figured it out the other day. It takes about it could take about 15 months, from the time you email until the time your episode goes live. Yeah, yeah. So.

Tziporah 21:08
So one of the things it's a good problem to have. Sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner 21:11
Oh, no, it's certainly as I go into a slight panic and flops. But every time I think about what would happen, I complain the whole time, look at my schedule, I record every day, I need a break, too. There are times where my voice hurts when I'm doing it. And then I think I'll just take a week off. And then the other, the other voice in my head is like do not do that. You're gonna six months from now, you're not gonna have content when you want it. So the one thing I thought you said in your notes that was really interesting, was that you said, talking about training doctors and NPS about being good human beings. Yeah. And I'm dying to know where that came from. Yeah,

Tziporah 21:49
so I the short version of the long story, or maybe the medium length version is when I was a kid, like, I remember sitting in the doctor's office in my pediatric endocrinologist office, and thinking to myself, that's what I'm going to be when I grow up, I'm going to be a doctor. And not only am I going to be a doctor, I'm going to do diabetes, and I'm going to do it with kids. And probably lots of kids with diabetes have that thought from time to time, but I was like, these people suck, which I'm sorry, I won't. Not all of them. It. But I remember thinking that as a kid. So I sort of set out my my path from that age, whatever that was, you know, probably younger than my kid. And that didn't go as I planned, mostly because I failed anatomy and physiology. I learned in my classwork that I probably wasn't suited for many reasons to go into medicine in that way. But I ended up sort of circling back into medicine, through the pathway of getting my degree and family therapy, and I'm thinking about healthcare in a really different slice. But probably, like my niche area is about that intersection between health and illness and how we experience it as people and recognizing that lots of health care professionals don't really get good training and how to attend to that part. So there's really good evidence based guidelines for managing all kinds of things. But most people don't know or don't get good training or practice in how to sort of meld that with, like relating with other people. So I spend a lot of my time in that domain training people.

Scott Benner 23:19
You just made me wonder how many people decide they want to be doctors then realize they wouldn't be good doctors and do it anyway.

Tziporah 23:27
Well, right I, I can't speak to that. Speak to that I probably can't even share stories without getting into trouble. But I will say, you know, being a healthcare professional now is so much more than just the medicine. But like you have to get through that door of rote memorization and tons and tons about the human body, which is like super fascinating. I probably wasn't fascinated with all of it. I'm probably I've always been fascinated with the people part. So I think I probably found the right path. For me, that was the balance of that.

Scott Benner 23:57
So there's this thing, and that's in my head right now because it happened earlier in the week, I recorded an episode with a person who has had diabetes for a long time, and had been told over and over again, by doctors what a good job they were doing. As the years went on, this person came to realize that they weren't doing a quote unquote, great job. It was very once he was higher than it should have been. Their variability was higher their health wasn't what it could have been all this stuff. And they recognize that and they had pushed through and made changes that that were, were good for them. But when they talked about their health care providers, they had two different doctors, one that they loved and thought was terrific, and one that they really hated and didn't like at all. And as I picked through it, I learned that the one that they loved was the one that was telling them they were doing great. And the one they hated was the one that was telling them that there was some ceiling here and play Just to improve. So was fascinating because from a, from a physician's perspective, the ones they didn't like, were the ones that were trying to help them. The ones they did like were the ones that were telling them, hey, it's fine. Now, you all are never going to hear this episode, which is a shame. But because a couple of days after I recorded it, I got a message from that person. And they asked me not to air it. Because what ended up happening during the conversation, if I'm, if I'm understanding correctly, from what I heard during the conversation, and then what I saw later from the note is that I believe this person realized, while we were talking, that for a decade or more, that they had, they were doing something for their health that wasn't as good as it could have been. I think there was, I don't know, I don't want to ascribe their feelings, because I'm not certain but shame or guilt, or sadness or something. But I think what happened was, is that the recording turned into a therapy session, and this person had a breakthrough during it. And it wasn't something they wanted to share with somebody else, which I completely understood, immediately deleted the episode. I didn't want that person to be uncomfortable. But it's fascinating to me so much so that it keeps coming up in my head. How, in their mind, they picture the people who were not hurting them, but not helping them as much as they could have been? favorably? And vice versa. I thought that was really something and I wonder how much that happens to people with diabetes?

Tziporah 26:34
Yeah, I mean, my, I think it's a really good wondering, I think most health care professionals want to be helpful. And the person who was saying you're doing a great job, probably thought they were being helpful. And so to to the person who said, You got to do better. And, and you know, and honestly, each one of those scenarios is sort of like what's the rightest match for the patient, in this moment in their life in whatever course of their disease they have. And that's really tricky for other people to like mine read. So part of like, a lot of the focus that I have in my work is trying to get people to ask, like, where are you on this spectrum of? What are all the things that you need from me? How can I be helpful to you? Where are you relative to your own self management or what your next goals are? Partly because we can't expect everybody to sort of do a one off custom job of healthcare, except that each one of us is different and needs different things. across the lifespan, you know what I mean? Like what I need now for my health care team is different than what I needed when I was 18. Thankfully, yeah,

Scott Benner 27:41
I also what you're saying is making me thinking that made me think about, what if that doctor who was telling that person like you're doing great, you're doing great, what if they saw something else about them? And they thought they can't handle any more pressure? I can't pressure this person, hey, we're keeping their agency in the eights, at least it's not 10. And then, from there, I wonder, Is that really your? Is it really fair for a doctor to make that decision? If that's the decision has been made, which is sure your health could be better? I shouldn't be telling you that. But I don't think you can handle like, is it your job to decide who can handle it? Or is it your job to say, Listen, I don't know if you can handle this, but we need to get everyone see down or you're gonna have some long term complications. Do you know I'm saying like, where do you? I mean, it seems like if it's not the doctors job to assess you, Then whose is it? And then it even makes me consider the other side on the patient side. They do they even know that about themselves. And by the way, at this point, now I'm philosophizing like, I'm not talking about the original person anymore, you know, but like, what if I am a person who's high anxiety or depressed or just, you know, I don't look like I can handle it, or I don't look like I understand the math or I've proven I don't understand diabetes, how much of your doctor's job then becomes life support and not? And not health? Support?

Tziporah 29:10
I mean, if you're asking me, which I mean, kind of your,

Scott Benner 29:12
because there's no one else here.

Tziporah 29:15
I mean, yeah. My personal opinion. And if I look at like all of the health professions and their ethical codes, and like, what, what we're all responsible to do, when we step into that role, we have to be able to give clear, accurate information to patients, even if it's hard, but like, we don't have to hammer them over the head with it. So it's one thing to say, you know, what, you're working really hard on this, you're a one C is currently eight, like, let's look at the things that you're doing that will help you continue to be healthy. That's really different than Oh, you're good. Like, don't sweat it. So I think there's ways to keep sort of inching people toward what we know is gonna like be better for them in the long run and avoid complications without making them feel terrible, but What's hard is that you don't I always know what's in the eye or ear of the beholder. So some people are not going to feel great about hearing this eight isn't good enough. Except that like the right combination of this is what we know. These are, what the risks are, here's how I can help you. Like, that's the conversation I want people to be having with patients, you know, not avoiding the the scary stuff, because if we just sort of leave it there, then it won't make somebody anxious, like that person if they're anxious or depressed. Like they still need guidance and help to get there.

Scott Benner 30:31
I like talking to you. Why is that? Thanks? No, listen, I talked to a lot of people. And I've never had a bad conversation, because I think everybody's interesting. But you are pacing me. This is the pace I as crazy as it sounds like this is the pace I prefer the conversation you and I are having right now. But other people's energy dictates the pace of conversations. For me, and yours is a good one. I like your tone everything this is I didn't know you were a therapist. See, it's so much better? I don't know. Thanks. It's really, truly wonderful. I was just like, Oh, she's a therapist. That's interesting. Like you could have said anything as as your job. And I would have been like, oh, that's fascinating. I had no idea. I think that one of the I mean, I don't know how obvious it is to everybody, maybe therapists see it a little more who listened. But there are themes that I'm trying to reinforce quietly in the podcast, and the ability to talk to each other is one of them. So when I think about that somebody could have gone through medical school, ended up with a great degree and an understanding of a profession, and then can't communicate it as someone that's just like, I mean, it makes you feel like, like, what, why are we even trying? Like they get it? Like, I mean, you can make a doctor who can understand the medicine, but can't keep you from feeling attacked, when they explain it to you. It's just terrible. I mean,

Tziporah 32:09
I yeah, I think it is terrible that it feels like we sort of are, we shouldn't have to choose, none of us should have to choose. But there are also different skill sets. Like when I was pregnant, I remember somebody saying to me, would you prefer a doctor who has really good technical skills related to the delivery, which was going to be complicated? Or someone with a good bedside manner? And that question always stood out to me because I'm like, wait a second, these are not mutually exclusive things. Why can't I have both of them? You know, in reality, the question was, I'm thinking of these specific people and this person, her strength is this and this person, their strength is that, but you know, part of my mission and my work, and in my sort of every day thing is probably not unlike yours. Like, I want us to be good to one another. So whether you're a healthcare professional, or any other kind of person, like how you approach others in your world is really important. And I think a lot of that stuff is teachable, practicable and bearable. That's not a word,

Scott Benner 33:15
but you just have to want to do it, are they? So it's so funny, you brought this up as an exponent, as an example, because my wife has given birth twice. The first time she got bowtie, no personality that to speak of almost no facial like movement while you were discussing things with him. Great doctor, um, dry and calm. My son came out with a knot in his umbilical cord. And I went to cut the umbilical cord and I saw the knot. And I pointed to it and said, Is that a problem? And he held the baby towards me coal, and showed me that it was alive and when Apparently not. I mean, like that was this. Like, that was the extent of his, like bedside manner. Yeah, I mean, just a monotone and quiet and a slow speaker. But man, like you couldn't get a person to say, this isn't the guy you want in the room, if something gets sideways, you know, then the next person comes for Arden. And he's full of life, and gregarious and everything else. And as Arden's coming out, he's across the room, and I see this like big eyes behind his mask, and he runs towards Kelly's vagina as if the baby is about to fall out of it. And and he's almost look shocked by it. And I have no comfort while he's delivering the baby whatsoever, because he's just sort of like,

Tziporah 34:43
like, you sit and have a beer with him but like he was you forgot he was going to be delivering a baby

Scott Benner 34:48
wonderful guy was pretty upset that he was in charge of catching art. You know, and what, why, why to your point, like Can't we blend those people together?

Tziporah 34:57
I did in fairness. I do. think there are there is increasingly like less gap there. I mean, I think there is more and more awareness. Like if I look at the newer health care providers who are entering the field that I get to work with many, many more of them are way more sensitive to all kinds of things like, to the people skills, to emotional health and wellness to mental health stuff. And, you know, part of it probably is the specialty that I work in and practicing. But also like, I think, I think the generations are like, wait a second, we actually need to bring a lot of different things to medicine, or to healthcare and and people are selecting when they have those skills to so I don't think it's really like an all or nothing thing. And I do see, I do see it's getting better.

Scott Benner 35:45
Do you believe? Just your opinion, obviously, but are they more aware? Because they want to be? Or because they think they have to be? And does it even matter? why they're doing it as long as they're doing it?

Tziporah 35:59
Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably both. And it probably doesn't matter what the Genesis is like, you know, here's the other reality, which is going to sound sort of silly when I say it, but like health care, people are people. Yeah. A song or like a Kermit the Frog situation. But, you know, I think there are so many things that can get in our way of connecting with another person. And that's true no matter what kind of work you do. But I think in healthcare in particular, more and more people are coming with those skills already in there. They're coming with different life experiences, and and what training programs like medical school or nursing school are selecting for now, when they're looking at applicants is not just test scores. They're looking at a more well rounded, sort of socially connected kind of person now, which I think is driving that change that we're talking about.

Scott Benner 36:52
Hey, a minute ago, when you reference Kermit the Frog, were you thinking of rainbow connections when you're salutely? Why did we both know that?

Tziporah 37:01
I don't know.

Scott Benner 37:03
As you said that, I thought, whatever she just said that little like, made up t shirt slogan, you said? I thought it's reminding her of rainbow connection.

Tziporah 37:14
And or poor Barbra Streisand.

Scott Benner 37:17
That's a weird, there's something about the Pentameter of what you said, that made us think about I wonder why that isn't that interesting languages. I'm fascinated by people and how they speak to each other. By that, that's gonna remain the coolest thing that happened to me this month. I think that's awesome that we both had that thought at the same time. We should probably talk about diabetes. Sure. Let's do that. Do you have any idea how many times during this podcast? I think I should probably talk about that. But I've been doing it for a while and I just I'm very interested by people. So. Okay. So if you were if you had diabetes that long ago, you started on pork insulin, beef, pork? Yeah. Okay. And then transitioned in the mid, you probably only had to do it five or so years, right? Yeah, probably. Okay. Cloudy, regular mph after that. Yep. All right. How long did you that for?

Tziporah 38:17
You know, I don't really know for sure. Partly because I wasn't responsible for myself up until, you know, yesterday. So when I was really little, I mean, I think I followed that path, probably through on the mph and regular. I mean, probably at least till I was my daughter's age. She's 11. Okay, I got my first pump when I was 21. But I was on multiple daily injections up until then. But by that time, I think had graduated. I don't even know that I ever made the leap to Lantis, actually.

Scott Benner 38:53
So what is your health like, now? Did it work out?

Tziporah 38:59
I mean, I'm, I'm here talking to you. So so it's working. Okay. In general, things are pretty okay. From the diabetes perspective, I do have some retinal complications, which just sort of feels like an unlucky break. You know, I was listening to you talk earlier about some other folks you've talked with, and you know, or maybe I was listening to a podcast episode. In any event. You know, there are people who I know anecdotally who have had diabetes 40 5060 years and sort of remarkably have zero complications. And I grew up and I was like, Oh, I'm going to be that person. No matter how screwy my adolescence is, no matter how messed up my control was up until I decided to do something different with it. And then I remember the first time somebody said to me, Well, I see these little hemorrhages in your eye and I was like, you've got to be kidding. So I thought, well, I'll just be one of those people who has this, you know, little thing here. And it's not really going to go anywhere. And it now in retrospect just sort of feels like one of those things that comes when you've had diabetes for a really long time that I wished wasn't a foregone conclusion. And most of the people I talked to in healthcare say, Well, if you've had diabetes 40 years, like something's going to happen, the odds are incredibly high. Except I know people who don't so I mostly feel unlucky. But it's probably more complicated than that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 40:27
I listen, anecdotal, like times 1000. But I seem to be the first thing that people have a problem with, if they're gonna have a problem like that. That one seems more. I don't know. I don't I don't want to say it happens more often. But the frequency that I hear about it while I'm talking to people, is and it's usually people coming right out of that timeframe, where you were diagnosed to, just that, that like, you know, the story of like, I used to inject once a day, and then it was twice a day. And then I did this one, and we didn't really count carbs. And I just, you know, we didn't have a meter for a long time. Right? You know, but you were diligent about doing what you were supposed to do.

Tziporah 41:16
You know, mostly, I mean, it legitimately blows my mind when I look at people in my social circle who are new to diagnosis who have kids who are and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you are hitting the ground running with like the absolute best. And you know, actually probably in retrospect, I did too, but the absolute best at that time was like urine dipsticks. Standard Issue injections of insulin and like you roll the dice and hope it works. Okay. You know, when I was a kid, my A onesies were always in the eights and nines. And I wrote back and looked at notes from my doctors at that time, and they were like, yep, everything's stable. Looks good.

Scott Benner 41:55
Yeah, that was the hope for really well, right,

Tziporah 41:58
because I had scary lows, too, and scary lows, and a little kid is scary, you know, that probably better than anybody. So I think, you know, we all I say we all everybody did the best with what they had, at the time, the best of what they knew the best of what the treatments were. And I think, you know, it just sort of stinks that, that decade, that first decade in particular, or maybe the first two. You know, if we transpose that a diagnosis in the early 2000s, or this decade, like things would probably look really different.

Scott Benner 42:30
Yeah. So no, I mean, I think it's, it's maybe akin to saying, you know, GE in 1960, can you believe we got to the moon and that piece of tinfoil, you know, wouldn't it have been great if we had Elon Musk's rocket, like we sure would have been, but we didn't. And there was no way to so you can't feel even. I mean, I guess, if you want to be healthy about it in your mind, you can't look back and just say, Oh, I wish it was different. Because it's, it's what it was. Right? Yeah.

Tziporah 42:59
I mean, like, I can wish it was different. And except that it is, as it was, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:04
I mean, I feel like if we could, like somehow resurrect somebody from the 1800s and say, Would it have been cool if you had a pickup truck when you're trying to get to Oregon? You know,

Tziporah 43:11
like, avoid that. dysentery. You hit

Scott Benner 43:15
Oh, my God, I don't think the hours from the from the Native Americans would have even been able to go through your Chevy Tahoe, like Greg. So it just, you know, it's not the same. You just, it's not apples to apples. You can't compare them. It's just interesting to hear. For me. I think. I like to hear the conversations, because I imagine that newer diagnosed people, they still got diabetes, or their kids got diabetes, it doesn't matter to them that they can have a CGM. Now, you know, I think they need the juxtaposition sometimes. Yeah. You know, so

Tziporah 43:48
I'm very grateful for all the technology. And, you know, I was, I was probably a late adopter to a lot of it. But now that I have it, like, I'm not sure I could, I mean, I can't ever go back sort of awesome.

Scott Benner 44:00
Right? Well, I think I think that if you're having diabetes and sticking with this line of stupidity when I make things up in my head, you have a Chevy Tahoe. Now you're trying to push West. And good news. The Cherokees did not upgrade to bazookas. So you're, you're still doing a difficult thing, but it's better equipped. Yeah, you're way better equipped. Yeah. So for sure. Anyway, you grew up in a family with a lot of children. I did. Like brothers and sisters more than you can count on one hand or

Tziporah 44:36
I have to think about how many fingers I have. I'm one of seven kids. And five of us, six of us mostly grew up in the same house for a number of years and then mostly it was the five younger five.

Scott Benner 44:48
Okay. Did your diabetes cause any changes to family structure or turmoil? Anything worth talking about?

Tziporah 44:57
Yeah, I mean, I think honestly like how Why even that to my current profession as a family therapist, and working in healthcare probably has a lot to do with how diabetes shaped me growing up in that family, like we are. All my siblings, we are accomplished smart, funny, likeable people. Like definitely fun to have it a party fun to have our own dinner. But like, we're we also have a lot of intensity among us. And so you introduce a very sort of significant illness and a very little person into a dynamic that's already kind of like a lot of energy, because there's a lot of kids and people are going in different directions. It really, it forces that family unit to do a lot of things differently. So whether it was around needing to wait to eat dinner, or who's going to give me my shot, or who's going to make sure I have this, that or the other thing packed before I go to school. You know, I think it was a it was part of the fabric of my family's life growing up my siblings in particular. And, you know, it's sort of hard to say what would have been different if that wasn't the case. But it also shaped like how we grew up with one another how they related with me or what they expected of me, or, you know, how long it took for them to see me as a grown up sibling, as opposed to somebody who's vulnerable or a little, you know,

Scott Benner 46:18
yeah. Do you ever talk about it with them as adults? Oh, yeah. Do you? Do you think they had any impacts on them themselves? Personally?

Tziporah 46:29
i Yeah. I mean, it's sort of hard to say exactly what all the impacts are. I think some of them would say, well, the diabetes, like took things away from me. And whether they would use that language or not, like, that's how I imagine it, because it does, you know, diabetes, at that time in my family took up a lot of space. So already, there's a lot of kids, all of whom each of them have their own needs, like on an emotional level on a day to day schedule level. But diabetes, sort of like forces everything to turn toward it, you know? So a low blood sugar or an injection or things that happen have to happen on a schedule like it someone else's needs can't be more important than that, at that time. Yeah, at least that's the way it was when I was younger. So some of them would say, Well, you know, I think diabetes took stuff away from me, others, I think, would say, I'm talking about them. Like there's like a million, but they're basically are. Some of them would say that it it made them more sensitive to sort of other people's challenges. I think some of them would say it forced them to develop more responsibility, especially at a younger age than maybe their peers. I probably had added to conflict. Yeah,

Scott Benner 47:42
I spoke to someone the other day, who was whose parents put the siblings in charge of taking care of the kid at school. They were all they were all in the school together. And so the older kids had to go give the kid her shots. Yeah. And I thought, wow, that's kind of I actually thought what a brilliant use of workforce.

Tziporah 48:03
I mean, yes,

Scott Benner 48:04
but But you know, you mean, like, I had my I put myself in that position, my little kid off at school. Things Not, not like they are today at some schools where you can, you know, get a 504 plan and be like, Hey, listen, you know, you take care of my kid, or we're gonna sue you. And, and that the parents were like, Okay, what do we have at our disposal? Here? We have other kids in the school. All right. Yeah. You guys take care of your sister? Yeah, I felt like I was crazy. Like, well, brilliant.

Tziporah 48:33
Yeah, I mean, I think we definitely had that in our family. You know, whether it was always like, spelled out like, this is what your job is where it was sort of this is what the moment needs of you. And I imagine, although I don't know for sure, because I was little like, I don't really know what those conversations were in advance, like, hey, how do you feel about this? Can you help me with this, I'd really appreciate it or if it was just, it's dinnertime, give your sister her shot. So you know, I think how you broke her all that stuff probably makes a big difference how you negotiate it with the kids. But I do think there was a fair bit of that and my family.

Scott Benner 49:10
Here's a question for you that that leans into your professional a bit. By the way, how do you practice? Is that like, private from your home from an office? Do you work for an institution?

Tziporah 49:19
It's a really good question. So I actually don't do a ton of clinical work on my own, like I see a few people now. But mostly what I do is teaching and sort of having administrative roles with other larger groups. So I work in a medical school, and I work in a couple of our medical schools, clinical departments, where I'm doing a lot of the training and education that you and I were talking about. But in terms of like my own direct clinical work, I do a lot less of that now than I used to.

Scott Benner 49:48
Well, you seem like you would have been really good at it. I hope Yeah. Well, how much of your job is theoretical? Like, I don't know what I mean. Let's fit You know what I mean? So people change through generations year to year, etc, their sensitivities change. You know, I'm going to tell you right now that I don't think I'm a perfect person. And if you could listen to me on this podcast and see where I probably have deficits growing up and stuff like that, but I grew up in a world where if I misspoke, someone would slap me. Yeah, you know, if my dad lost his temper, he might keep slapping me. At this point in the world, you know, the one of those incidences would have had me taken out of the home even. And yet, it didn't happen to me, like very frequently. And here I stand before you I'm a fairly well adjusted person. And so that's I don't know, I mean, I'm dating myself now. 3540 Oh, geez. My god. 40 years ago, me, I was trying to give myself something in the 30s. But the truth is, that that's not fair. 40 or more years ago, I'm describing to you, right, it's now an unheard of idea in polite society, right? You would not slap your kid in the face in a restaurant for saying something fun, and just try to imagine me as a little kid, no, no malice. I'm just joking around and being stupid. And, you know, sarcastic and my dad didn't get the sarcasm, by the way, you know, fair enough, right? worked all day. And I'm in a, you know, a hard job and he didn't have money. And he came home and like the five seconds that he's got to, like, eat dinner. I'm, you know, I'm being an idiot. And so the way you would have talked to me back then, if you had a therapist job back, then you would probably have said to me, Hey, listen, dad works hard, and he's tired, and he ain't up for your bullshit. Stop it. It's great. Like that might have been, that might have been what you said back then. And now you'd say nobody can treat you that way. Your safety is important, whatever else would go along with it? And my question is, then what's going to happen 40 years from now? Like, what's the therapist gonna say 40 years from now? So is what you're telling me right now? Just theoretical, or is it? Implicit to the time?

Tziporah 52:20
Yeah, I mean, I think it's an interesting question. My, my personal approach with my work is family and systems. So like, even if it was 40 years ago, or now, like, I'm going to be looking at what's the sequence of interactions between you and the other people who are important to you? And how well are they working for what you need to do? So like this part that I'm going to say, sounds kind of theoretical, but I'll make it kind of practical. Like if you say, it's important for me that in my family's home, we have loving relationships, and we look out for one another? Great, you know, like, that's a pretty easy to understand principle. But then it's from that I can say, well, how is you back in and your kid at the dinner table? Consistent with that, like, is that working to get you where you want to go? And I think in that way, I take whatever is theoretical, I combine it with what the people in front of me say is important to them. And then I try to figure out how to help them close the gap. You know what I mean,

Scott Benner 53:16
right? Now that makes sense. It does. I just, I'm not like, I hope I don't sound like I'm belittling what, what you're doing, I think it's really important, and I agree with it. Moreover, I'm just playing devil's advocate, and trying to get to the, to the other side of the idea.

Tziporah 53:33
Because you're asking about, like, how standards change over time? Yeah, like, what's acceptable and what's like, desirable? You know, I gotta say, like, I do follow things like, what a developmental people say, and what do they say is good for kids, and what's good for our brains and what's good for sort of our psychological health, I do look at researchers and scholars and what they are discovering about how we get to be good people, you know what I mean? And so I do try to incorporate those ideas. Most people would say, being in an environment where you're worried you're gonna get slapped is probably not great for lots of reasons. So even if that were to evolve in a different way, in the next 40 years, like I probably try to be thoughtful about the family's values where they want to go as well as kind of what the science says,

Scott Benner 54:23
Yeah, I'm just looking back on my own life. Like, there's probably a level of I'll call it anxiety, but it's awareness. Maybe like, you know, like, If I lived outside in the Serengeti, I'd always wonder if a cat was going to eat me. Like like that kind of like it was sort of like that a little bit like you because you don't say, I mean, when you're a kid, you don't say flippin things. You don't plan to save them, right? Something happens and it fires off, like whatever part of my brain makes me say something stupid. And then I say something stupid. And then the next thing you know, you're like, you're like defend in your head. You know? It and there's nobody even around you just sort of like you kind of get that like, turn over your shoulder feeling like, oh god, did someone hear me say that? But But what about boundaries, though, like? So? What this is making me think about is, do we? Do human beings have limitless possibility? And if you just let them move in the direction that feels right to them? Will they blossom in a way that I can't even imagine? Or if we let everybody just do whatever they want? Will it be the like fall of society? Does that? I mean, that's a big question.

Tziporah 55:33
Yes. Yeah. Right. I think yes, to both of them, right? Like, we are social beings, we live in communities and cultures that have norms and rules for how people should be in that space, right. And it's different. Like I say, to my kid, all the time, different families do different things. What I'm trying to explain to her is that family culture, when she's in my family, this is what we do when we're here, and other people may do something different. So I think there's always going to be that, like, blend of what the people around you who are important to you think is acceptable and what isn't. But it's also true that I think we have limitless potential. So I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Scott Benner 56:12
It's interesting, because we need a mix of people in my opinion. Right? Right. And but if we all were at Burning Man, 24/7, who would make the cars and make the electricity and stuff like, yeah, right. And, and yet, sometimes people fall into categories, they never break up. My wife's an incredibly hard worker. And she's just always going to be. And I don't think I don't know what I'd have to be able to provide for her to make her go, hey, you know what, I don't work anymore? Like, would it be like, how many millions of dollars? Would I have to put in a pile before she went, Okay, I'm comfortable not working? Or does it have nothing to do with money? Like, I can't even I'm not even sure if it's just how she's wired? Or if, you know, I was talking with somebody the other day about, you know, the pressure we feel to leave art and some money in case I don't know, like, what if she becomes the near to well, and can't afford her, you know, her medications or something like, we want to have a little nest egg for her, but then that makes you feel pressured to leave the next egg for the other person. And we don't make that kind of money. We're just piling up money in the corners. You know what I mean? So, so like, you're working so hard to amass something, just to it's an insurance policy? And in the case of my son, just because I wouldn't want to do one for one and not for the other one. Yeah. But by the time if we're able to accomplish that, by the time we accomplish it, it's gonna kill us. Yeah. You know, and I don't know if we would have thought of it that way if Hardin didn't have diabetes? Yeah. So its impact. You know, you said that impacts, it's hard to know what the impacts are. We were talking about something earlier. And it made me think that even the place you live, right, whether it's an apartment, or a house, you know, your life if you buy it, me moving into the house, I'm in now, in some ways that I'll never understand shaped my life and my children's life. And literally, if we would have bought the house across the street, there would be things about us that would be different now. And it's just it's fascinating to to wonder how those little variables impact, but you're never going to know.

Tziporah 58:27
Yeah, just I mean, thankfully, we'll never know. We could like, probably make ourselves nuts. Yeah.

Scott Benner 58:33
Yeah. We're off the track again. Sorry. How do you manage your diabetes right now?

Tziporah 58:41
You mean, like good or bad? No. What are my tools? Your tools? Yeah, I am on a T slim pump and Dexcom. And, you know, that is working pretty well for me. Overall. I did have, you know, a different pump previously with a CGM. And I was listening to some of your questions earlier about the evolution of those tools over time. I remember being at a diabetes fundraising event a bunch of years ago, and I was talking to one of the other people there who had diabetes, and she's like, Oh, do you use the, you know, the CGM? That was the one that went with my pump. And I was like, Yeah, I mean, sometimes she's like, What do you mean? Sometimes I'm like, Ah, it feels like I'm harpooning myself. When I put it in, I don't like it. I use it sometimes. And she's like, why wouldn't you use it all the time? And I think at that time, I was like, you know, I probably was more ambivalent about a lot of things than I am now. But when I look at it now, and like, this stuff is available to me, it works pretty well. It could always be better, I could be better, but you know, I can't imagine not using it.

Scott Benner 59:53
What What, um, oh gosh, what was I just gonna say, my brains and about harpooning bye bye. In the home, my brain let me down. happens more like, like, like goodness, you should my desk is too cluttered right now. I need to like clean it off, because there's too much that I can see while I'm talking. I know that sounds crazy, but alright, so

Tziporah 1:00:20
you. So I'm on a tandem and

Scott Benner 1:00:24
not my question. Thank you. Do you use the algorithm? Do you use the control IQ? Or they do use a control IQ? Yeah. How do you find that? And was it difficult to do? Because you've been why many so long? Like to me, I wonder if a person who's had diabetes as long as you have looks at control like Q or you know, any of the other like algorithms? And is it like getting into a modern car and letting it lane keep for you and speed up and slow down? Are you like, I'm not letting something else do that? Or are you happy for it?

Tziporah 1:00:56
I mean, sort of both like, I am happy for it to be doing the thing. Like when I go to sleep, and I get up and I'm like, oh, that's like a super flatline, I would not have been able to do that on my own I don't think or if I could have I wasn't doing it before I had that have the system. That being said, there's times when the the automatic car, the self driving car, I'm like, I don't like how you're driving this. I don't prefer that. But then I go in and I try to like mess with what it's doing. And I'm like, oh, no, I just screw the whole thing. And so I feel both really grateful and sometimes frustrated. And also in awe of it all of it. I think it's it probably could be optimized a little bit more for what it is, you know, I wish the target blood sugar was a little bit lower. I wish it was quicker to correct stuff. So those are my

Scott Benner 1:01:50
Yeah, I think I hope, I hope to say I hope they will be one day, I hope that the like the 110, or whatever they are, I think on the part five is 110. I think maybe control IQs like 112 and a half is I think the target or whatever. Hopefully, hopefully, these companies will just continue to innovate, and to put r&d money into it so that they can go back to the FDA with confidence and say, Hey, listen, I think we could let people choose all the way down to 80 or wherever they want, you know. But I mean, it takes so much time.

Tziporah 1:02:24
Well, for sure. And you know, here's the other reality, which you don't need me to point out to you. But like, when I'm sitting with my endocrine team, you know, they when I'm thinking about the story you told earlier about folks who say, Yeah, you're doing great, you're doing great. I know in my mind's eye, what are all the things that aren't great? When you look at what the technology is making possible, like things look pretty, okay, you know, an ANC of, you know, 6.5 is pretty okay, by most people's standards. That being said, like, my variability is higher than I want it to be. Or sometimes I hang out in the two hundreds for days and don't know why and don't really want to think it's about the hormone things that happen when I get older, or whatever else. Like there are still like things that I do that influence the the effectiveness of the algorithm. And in some ways, like, they're never going to know those things as well as I do. I'm always probably going to think I could do better. But in the meantime, having technology that takes a bunch of that guesswork out is like super helpful, because otherwise it's kind of a full time job on top of my other full time jobs.

Scott Benner 1:03:32
I have to be honest, if when I'm talking to people I do I do my very best not to be judgmental, like not to let my own personal like I don't know, like how to put it exactly like I don't I tried to make snap judgments when people say things like, like, like the person who is talking to you, like, you know, is me, but at the same time, if you put me in my personal life, when i There are times when I hear people say like, oh, the doctor told me I was doing great. And I just believe them in my mind. I think what, like you say, I mean, you're, you're unaware of that a nine a one sees not okay. Like, like, that sounds like a lie to me, you know, and then you start getting into the psychological part of it, which is Look, someone told me what it really means to me when they say someone told me it was okay. And I didn't question any further is I got a pass not to think about this thing that is hard for me to think about. Yeah. And you know, it's sometimes it comes out of their mouth blaming, but I never I never hear it that way. Oh, if that makes sense or not.

Tziporah 1:04:37
But no, it does make sense. You know, I think that like, anxiety thing that you were talking about, I think I probably have that hardwired. Like I'm always thinking about what's diabetes doing in the background, even if I don't think I'm thinking about it. And because that's been true my whole life and because I know like better control is just better in the long run, especially, you know, when I already have some complications. That track in my head is like going all the time. That doesn't always mean though, that I make great choices. Like sometimes I just want to eat ice cream for dinner.

Scott Benner 1:05:15
You understand? Just for real, I made myself a waffle the other day, randomly in the middle of the day.

Tziporah 1:05:23
I mean, why not? It's very lunch waffles.

Scott Benner 1:05:26
I'm gonna tell you something now that I'm embarrassed by. Okay, great. This is a safe space. It's not people are gonna hear this. So if it was safe, I wouldn't get so many emails. My brother takes me to a diner one day, my mom, my mom is goes in. My mom has cancer, right? She's doing she's doing pretty good. But we learned my mom has cancer six months ago or so she has to go have surgery. She's 79 years old. My you know, she's so old. And the cancer is so you know, advanced that my other brother flies in from the middle of the country, like just to drive her to the hospital. Because the three of us are in this car thinking it's a fair shot, Mom's gonna die in this surgery. So we, it's COVID. So we take her to the front door of the hospital and basically, like, just push her through in a wheelchair. And we're like, goodbye. You know, like, it just shoved her and we assume somebody was gonna find her, you know what I mean? So, you know, it was it felt like that. So we spent the morning with her sitting around her place talking, you know, trying to not be like, trying not to say like last rites types of things like you like there's I found myself in the room thinking there are things I want to share with mom in case she dies. And I don't want to say them. Because I don't want you to go in there thinking. I heard what that kid just said, I think he thinks I'm gonna die. You know, like, so you're trying to balance that line. We're all talking. We get her in the hospital. And my brother goes, you guys want to go get some breakfast. And so we just went to a diner and we sat and talked for a really long time. I ordered something and my brother turns to me and goes get the chicken and waffles. And I went what he goes, I don't even care what you want or what you think he goes. Just get the chicken and waffles. And I was like, okay, so I ordered it. It was so good. He was incredibly right. Best waffle I've ever had in my life. I then went on a waffle Bender trying to recreate the waffle in my home. I could not do it. So I went back to the diner. While the 18 year old that was serving me was chatting with me. I looked her in the face and I said go in the back. Use your phone, take a photo of whatever the waffle mix is. Bring it to me. I will give you a $20 bill so so she goes in the bag takes a picture airdrops it to me kids are amazing. Like I love like how well they understand technology. I'm just sitting in my head but just pops up. It's like bah, bah, bah wants to airdrop you and I'm like, Well, this is either unwanted porn or a picture of the waffle mix. So I hit no loss in that. So I hit I hit yes. And there it was. She took a picture of it. I literally I handed her the money she's you don't have to give me that. I was like a promises a promise you take this do something nice with it. I always tell young kids the same thing. I'm like, don't buy drugs with my money. And I and, and then I went online. I'm so embarrassed. I had to order a case of it because it comes from a restaurant supply. Oh, yeah. I spent $40 on waffle mix. I'm now $60 into it. As you can see, it comes to my house. I make it it does not taste the same. And I think oh my god is the syrup. So

Tziporah 1:08:54
I go back, tell me you went back. Yes,

Scott Benner 1:08:56
I did. I'm not giving up now. So I went back to the diner. And I said, Can I just have a little bit of that syrup. And I got some of it. I went home. I made another waffle. I put it on. It was better, but it wasn't exact. And I thought that's not possible. I bought the mix. I have the syrup. I'm whipping the butter. Like what's wrong? And I can't figure it out and I can't figure it out. And then one day I realized it tasted really good because I was sitting there with my brothers. And I'm never gonna recreate that that way. And now I don't want the goddamn waffles and I have all this mix of I don't know what to do with it. I'm gonna start giving it away as gifts. But anyway, that was that the it took me like months. This is not a story that happened over a couple of days. I wasn't in there every day like going alright, now give me this part. It literally took me once months and months to build it up. And then that's what I figured out it did The way those chicken and waffles tasted, had nothing because I then went back and ordered the chicken waffles again and sat there by myself at lunch and ate them. It wasn't the same. Yeah, so I don't know why I told you that. But, you know,

Tziporah 1:10:14
there's you said it was going to be an embarrassing story that's actually really touching

Scott Benner 1:10:18
story but the point about I mean, I was, I mean,

Tziporah 1:10:20
you're stuck with a ton of awfulness. You have no idea. I'll send you some. I should give it away. Online. Like contest of half opened, half consumed waffle mix, is that it

Scott Benner 1:10:35
is really good. And by the way, the syrup did upgraded significantly. But what I figured out was that restaurant syrup is poison. Like, it's not the they're not giving you like maple syrup. They're not good. It's just, I mean, if there's a way to put high fructose corn syrup and something twice, they figured out how to do it. Oh, yeah. And you could only buy it by the gallon, which makes it? I did. I want to say I did not buy a gallon of syrup.

Tziporah 1:11:02
I just, I wouldn't buy a case of gallons. I took

Scott Benner 1:11:05
a tumbler to a restaurant and strong armed like a 19 year old kid and filming it.

Tziporah 1:11:11
It's actually sort of amazing. You haven't gotten arrested in this story.

Scott Benner 1:11:15
I'm delightful while I'm doing it. Yeah. And I'm throwing money around. So you know? No, 20 year old kids gonna be like, saying again, you're gonna give me $20 To do what looks like okay, that's fine, you know? So anyway, and I have not been kicked out of the restaurant. But yeah, I don't know. There's anyway, my mom I should say, zipped through the surgery. I astonishing LEE Well, she had a full hysterectomy, a tumor, the tumor the size of a grapefruit on her ovary. And, and the day after the surgery. I'm on the phone with her because I can't go Syria. I said, Mom, how's the pain? And she goes, Oh, I'm good. And I was like, Oh, they got you all loaded up on stuff. And she goes, I took a Tylenol and ibuprofen and I thought, oh, people are tough, you know, tough lady. Ibuprofen, Tylenol, I mean, cut from her sternum down, and a bunch of stuff removed. She goes to rehab, rehabs herself for a week, goes into another place, pulls herself together over the next month starts chemo. She's five treatments into six chemo treatments right now. And she's, she's well. And that's it. I'm going to when she's done, we're gonna I'm gonna take her to that Diner

Tziporah 1:12:29
for chicken and waffles.

Scott Benner 1:12:30
I don't know if that's what she wants, but that's what I'm getting.

Tziporah 1:12:33
What if they can't even make the waffles because somebody bought all

Scott Benner 1:12:37
that's possible. I went to a restaurant supply house at one point and snuck in looking for the

Tziporah 1:12:48
Chairman, I'm gonna give you that I

Scott Benner 1:12:50
was on a bit of a. I don't know, like, I have no idea Holy Grail. It really was and then the other day Arden's like you want to walk on like I'm completely sick of waffles. I never want a waffle again. So I was making waffles taking one bite of them and throwing them away. Before

Tziporah 1:13:06
you were a waffle connoisseur, I mean, that's the thing. That's what you do. Now when you're fancy. I don't

Scott Benner 1:13:10
I don't know how hard it is to be a waffle connoisseur. I've come to realize after I'm eating them, they're just flour. Anyway, what have we not talked about that you wanted to? Anything?

Tziporah 1:13:26
I mean, probably lots of things. But

Scott Benner 1:13:29
why did we have to do this orally?

Tziporah 1:13:32
Cuz I like have a job both days. I mean, whether I'm working from home or working in one of my offices like I'm, I'm generally like pretty JAM PACKED from as early as 630 or seven all the way through to the evening most days. So

Scott Benner 1:13:48
I am often baffled that people are you able to do this? Yeah, I really am. Like I never asked, but there's the part of me that's like, why are you able to do this at 11 o'clock on a Wednesday?

Tziporah 1:14:04
So I have to tell you, you're the first invitation I got was for nine o'clock and I'm like, Oh, this will be fine. It'll sort of be like the start of the day. And then my one of my workgroups was like, Okay, we need to have a retreat from eight to 10. I'm like, Oh, I've got my recording. I've been waiting to do this. And then you happen to reach out to say, hey, I need to move and I was like, Oh, that's cool. Perfect. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:14:26
I I took a week off from recording so I could go be with my son. And

Tziporah 1:14:31
as you should. Yeah, I'm going to try to enjoy some waffle moments. More

Scott Benner 1:14:35
fun. Yeah, maybe I should take him for a lawful. There we go. Two more questions. If you don't mind. How short Are you?

Tziporah 1:14:44
Like in real life or on my license?

Scott Benner 1:14:46
I in real life if you don't mind? Like for

Tziporah 1:14:49
nine ish and a half? At No. Three quarters.

Scott Benner 1:14:53
How did you get that baby out of you even?

Tziporah 1:14:56
Oh, yeah, not easily. Just gonna say aid? Not easily.

Scott Benner 1:15:01
That's why you're or other people in your family. Similarly, yeah,

Tziporah 1:15:05
I am not the shortest of my siblings. I'm not the shortest.

Scott Benner 1:15:09
No kidding. Yeah, I have friend people I love who the shortest the three shortest people I've ever met my life. Like she's short, she married a shorter guy. They had a short kid. Like when they're standing next to each other. It's like, it's like watching Tom Cruise act. When they're all sitting next to each other. You can't tell the minute one of them breaks off and goes next to somebody else. You're like, Oh, my goodness, is Are there limitations? Like, does your height hold you back from things?

Tziporah 1:15:39
Not really. No. I mean, it's interesting. I from time to time, I've had people say, How do you reach your dishes and like, I just put them where I can get them. Or I will tell you, you know, I'm in my 40s, I will still climb a grocery store shelf to get something that I can't reach. Rather than ask someone to help me. In my own kitchen, I will use other implements to get things out of cabinets. Like I'll grab a spatula and you know, get the flour from the top shelf or whatever. But mostly my life is set up in a way that's navigable for me for you. And it doesn't occur to me that I'm short until I stand next to someone like oh my gosh, you're short. I'm like, oh, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:16:19
that happens. I think that happens to everybody. I say a lot. Like I'm taller than most of the people I meet in the course of a day. And the minute someone's taller than me, I recognize that I am not tall at all. Yeah, it's interesting. Did you marry or I'm sorry. Are you married? Yeah.

Tziporah 1:16:32
Yeah. But I will tell you too, though. Just one other thing. I do. Look people in the eye a bunch. So I think that's partly why it doesn't really occur to me, you know?

Scott Benner 1:16:42
Oh, do you notice people's double chins more? Think about that, in the course of your day for me.

Tziporah 1:16:50
Well, legit, I'm thinking about my own, which is like a very unfortunate reality. But thank you for that.

Scott Benner 1:16:57
If I had if you gave me $10,000 Right now, I'm putting this out to the people that listen, if you guys were told give me $10,000 and told me I didn't have to use it for any real thing. I'd have my double chin like surgically removed. I

Tziporah 1:17:13
mean, it's it's the waffles.

Scott Benner 1:17:15
It might be not the right or do you think I could just stop the waffles and Miko backwards.

Tziporah 1:17:21
I can't say for sure. I

Scott Benner 1:17:23
just noticed I saw him I saw a person from a camera angle of lower and I recently and I thought oh, they look different from lower up than they do from my eyeline. And that's what made me ask you if you just do see people, I wonder do people look different to you than they do to other people because of the angle?

Tziporah 1:17:45
I mean, we'll never know. No, we won't. But like, most of the time, like I don't like have meetings from standing next to people looking up at them. Otherwise, I've had like a I would have like a serious neck problem. I'll tell us like 540 He

Scott Benner 1:18:00
must be so happy he met you. He must feel like a giant right. Is your daughter daughter shorter?

Tziporah 1:18:08
I mean, she's still for the moment shorter than I am. She'll probably be like five feet.

Scott Benner 1:18:13
Okay. Yeah, I saw Arden last night in a video. She's doing something for school and they had to record themselves dancing so they could. It's not important. And she's in a video with a guy who's probably like six, one and Arden's five, seven. And then there's another girl in the video who's five one and she looks like their child. Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah, that's real. Yeah, no kidding.

Tziporah 1:18:36
Always front row for the class picture. Always.

Scott Benner 1:18:39
There she is, right there. Did you name your kid something different? And are all your siblings? Do all your siblings have like, more different names as your name means something? There's a lot of questions in there.

Tziporah 1:18:52
Oh, I thought you wanted to say like, did I name her Medtronic or something? I did not. Do you mean like, like, Jewish names?

Scott Benner 1:18:59
Yeah, I mean, do you do like to all your brothers and sisters have names that are more reminiscent of yours that have mine?

Tziporah 1:19:07
Yes. Yeah. So all of my siblings have first and middle names that are from the Old Testament, which is actually kind of interesting. I didn't really grow up in a religious family. But my daughter does not have an Old Testament name.

Scott Benner 1:19:21
Okay. That is interesting. So not particularly religious. But your parents went that route. Yep. Yeah. Did they feel like they had to

Tziporah 1:19:31
really know. I mean, mine is like not a super common name either. And I'm like, Okay, well, I guess being the six out of seven like you run out after a while, but um, you know, it's still pretty unique

Scott Benner 1:19:43
do Jewish faith sometimes, like the first letter has to match somebody else?

Tziporah 1:19:50
Yeah, so all of us are named for somebody. So I'm named after my mom's favorite aunt who didn't have my same English name, but thankfully, I don't have her inclusion. The per Yiddish name was vague Allah which means bird in Yiddish. Okay, so that's how I got this name, which means bird in Hebrew.

Scott Benner 1:20:09
Oh, you listen to this podcast, right? Yeah. How bad is my Yiddish?

Tziporah 1:20:15
I mean, like, what's the scale?

Scott Benner 1:20:16
I don't whip it out often, but like, I know, I know some phrases. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is it cringe worthy when I say it? Or no,

Tziporah 1:20:23
no, no, no. And I'm also not fluent. I think that's a whole other show. But

Scott Benner 1:20:29
I gotcha. I don't know. I there's some of those words that I find delightful. So actually, the words you just said, for bird, I thought it meant something different.

Tziporah 1:20:42
Well, it can mean that's the thing. It could just mean, the thing about language is that it gets like appropriated for other things, but

Scott Benner 1:20:51
excellent. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay. Your episode's gonna be called Rainbow connection.

Tziporah 1:20:56
I mean, I hoped it would.

Scott Benner 1:20:57
I mean, there's really that's all we had. I mean, that's fine. Yeah. I know. I thought it was like tight. I was like, Oh, excellent. That's gonna happen. That's awesome. All right. Would you hold on for one second for me? I appreciate you doing this. Absolutely. Yeah.

Well, first, I want to thank Sephora for coming on the show and sharing her story and being so Chitty, chatty with me. I had a great time. I also want to thank Ian pen from Medtronic diabetes, and remind you to go to Impend today.com To learn more about that insulin pen that has all that functionality that you want. And let me thank our newest sponsor, athletic greens, makers of ag one, head over now to athletic greens.com. Forward slash juicebox. To get started with ag one. Ag one is a small micro habit with big benefits. It's one thing you can do every single day to take great care of yourself.

Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.