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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 622 of the Juicebox Podcast

Okay, guys, my schedule is all messed up, it is really, really late at night. I have to do this right now. So you can get this podcast in the morning and I'm completely exhausted. So my apologies upfront to the Contour Next One blood glucose meter and touched by type one because your ads may make very little sense. We're about to find out. First, let me tell you that we're about to speak with Pam, who is an adult who's been living with type one for many decades. She really does get me and it's a fun episode with a lot of chatting and chatting. Today in chatting, I'm not going to read edit anything I say here. So whatever comes out of my mouth is it I'm so tired. Oh, I just need one good night's sleep. But then I just want to start over again. Please remember that nothing you're here on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. And if you're a resident of the United States, and you have type one diabetes, or are the loved one caregiver, they call that of child with type one, P one D exchange.org. Forward slash juice box, fill out the survey. Alright, here we go. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one, learn more about them at touched by type one.org. Or find them on Facebook and Instagram. The podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Go to contour next one.com Ford slash juice box to get started today with the same blood glucose meter that my daughter uses. I'm going to tell you more about them in the ad break. But for now, just know that they and by they I mean contour and touched by type one. I'm going to start rambling. There's links to them in the show notes of your podcast player. And at juicebox podcast.com. I'm going to fall asleep sitting here

Pam 2:25
they're new. I bought them just for this.

Scott Benner 2:27
Why are they giving you a headache?

Unknown Speaker 2:29
They're a little tight.

Scott Benner 2:31
Are they pinching your head? Yeah. Take them off and stretch them.

Pam 2:35
Oh, all right. Hold on. Oh, much better. Thank you.

Scott Benner 2:47
This is all staying in the episode just so you know.

Pam 2:52
Great headbands 101

Scott Benner 2:55
Well, not even that just you know, having the nerve to try something 101. So I guess since we're already going just introduce yourself.

Pam 3:05
All right. I am Pam Moscow. I've had type one. Since 1975. I was diagnosed at the age of 12. So I've had diabetes for 46 years.

Scott Benner 3:19
Wow. Are you 58 years old?

Pam 3:23
Yes, sir. You're quick. So quick. I'm

Scott Benner 3:25
really not I took a number you gave me an added 12. And luckily, there were some whole numbers. So they came together pretty simply.

Pam 3:34
I love it when that happens.

Scott Benner 3:36
Okay. I'm just going to start by saying that you are one of the more exuberant, people who contact me. Hmm, I don't know if that's something you know about yourself. Or not?

Pam 3:53
Really, especially when it comes to type one. I'm usually pretty under the radar.

Scott Benner 3:58
It's funny what made you or initially ever say hello to me, like behind the scenes?

Pam 4:05
I think the first time actually I'm not sure I can even say this. But the first time I've contacted you I want to do to have Dr. Jody Stanislaw on the show.

Scott Benner 4:16
He asked me to have somebody on. Okay. Yes, that's 100%. Right. I remember that. Exactly. Right. So people send me suggestions all the time of who to have on. And I've been, Oh, I remember all this. I'm excited that you're on. I'm going to explain this to you and everyone else at the same time. So I have a theory about podcasts. And I might be right. And I might be wrong. But I think that one of the reasons why some podcasts fail is because they're so I almost use the word that I'm not 100% sure of its meaning, but I think I have it right. It's masturbatory, but it's not in a sexual way. It's us There's a lot of people out here I go, I don't have enough words for what I need. There are a lot of people trying to make a thing in the world, and some of them are really legitimately great. And some of them are not, and, you know, etc, doesn't matter. But they all try to feed each other. So they saw a lot of things that I don't know how to put this. And I might not be talking about your person, I actually am not, I don't, I don't know enough about them. But it's a lot of like empty shirts, trying to make themselves look like a suit, if that makes sense. And so these people create these little podcasts or, you know, whatever, like YouTube channels or things, no one's listening to them, they don't they have no real, like, you know, I don't know, listenership I guess, or viewers, or whatever. And then they kind of set each other up as experts, and then try to, they kind of fake it till they make it kind of feeling and it doesn't work for most of them. And it's a real tried and true. situation, you're going to see if you pay attention to these things, they all do it. Like everyone does it. Like there's a guy from this podcast on that podcast, there's a lady from this YouTube channel, who was on that YouTube channel, they're all trying to drag their viewers back and forth to each other. Interesting. And I think that what that what that makes happen is you get practiced voices, over and over again, people who have a spiel, and then they come on and give it and I don't find that interesting. And then from there, my next concern is that many of these people are trying to build a business. And I do not have the time or wherewithal to look into each and every one of them to make sure that they're a person, I'm willing to throw my listenership behind. Ah, gotcha. Okay. And that, and that is, and I have a significant amount of people listening to me, so that feels like a real responsibility to me. Right. Okay. And anyway, I think the shows built really well off of just people who, like you.

Pam 7:12
I completely agree.

Scott Benner 7:14
Thank you. So anyway, when sometimes when people send suggestions, and you don't ever hear the person on the show, it could be because of that. It could just be because I don't think they fit somewhere. Sometimes it's because people don't answer me back there. Sometimes I I'm like, Yeah, I would love you to be on. But in I think in the case of yours, I think she has a business. And I think she also is a is a common face in the space. And those are things that I avoid. But not to say she's not a lovely person, or wouldn't be an amazing addition to the podcast very well could be. I just can't. I can't make those decisions because they come at me too fast and too furiously. And I would eventually end up making a mistake and have a snake oil salesman on here. And by mistake.

Pam 7:59
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I hope I can use her name throughout the episode on occasion, if that were a few times when I feel like I needed to bring her up because she's helped me so much.

Scott Benner 8:08
No, I would I would love that. i Yeah, absolutely. There's an episode out last week where people were being named checked, that I've turned down for the show, and I have no trouble for that being on at all. So I just, I just can't be the one saying hey, and then take the risk that, you know, a numbers of 1000s of people go give them money or something like that, like, it's a scam. So I would be and because there are a lot of and again, I am not talking about your person. But I am seeing too much of this on Instagram lately. Like I'm a therapist about diabetes, Rive abs, you know what I mean? So I can tell you how to work out like that I just give me a 600 it just be $600 or, you know, or there's this one person is like, I'm going to teach you how to be more sexual. And I was like, I gotta pay you for that. Like, you know, like, so? I don't know. Anyway, Pam, you know, you've had diabetes for a hell a long time. Yes,

Pam 9:04
I have, indeed.

Scott Benner 9:06
What's it been like? retrospectively?

Pam 9:11
You know, it's so interesting. Now, I think I was a little late to the table as far as taking advantage of all the things that are out there. For one thing, I was busy raising my family, I maybe blame a little bit of it on that. And another thing, I'm very private about it starting to come full circle and some on the podcast. But I it's almost like it was a different disease back then. Well, I mean, it's the same disease, but you treated it completely differently. You know, I had a friend asked me recently, you know, why didn't your parents help you more than it really took me aback because my parents are great, and they, they helped me as much as they could, but there wasn't anything for them to do. I mean, occasionally, my parents would say You're supposed to be eating that. But it's not like they could check my blood sugar and then say, Let's dose for it. I mean, I wasn't told to dose for food for an individual meal or snack until I was probably out of college. Yeah. I mean, you woke up in the morning when I started out on one, one mix shot a day, you know, regular an MPH. And that carried me till the next morning. And they also, I had a decent endocrinologist, but was never told, I was told that I couldn't eat sugar. But I was never told that the insulin was to carry me through all of my meals. I mean, I was on the exchange diet, all I did was follow the rules. I had, you know, two starches and a fat or whatever, I ate what they told me to eat, and I weighed it. But it never clicked. It never clicked for me that dang, I could have been taking a little extra. You know, once the, once the fast acting insulins came out, I started to put it all together. But I mean, maybe you couldn't do that with regular insulin. I don't know. But I just can't imagine how high I was probably by the end of the day. You every after every meal, especially every dinner. So

Scott Benner 11:16
is it similar to if, say you take two pills a day, and the pills interact with each other poorly. So the doctor says to you, hey, here's pill a, take this in the morning. But now here's pill B, don't take this within three hours of pill a and don't eat any acity foods near pill B and then you just go Okay, those are the rules around taking these pills. I'll make sure I don't do those things. However, I don't in any way understand why I've been told this.

Pam 11:46
Yeah, I mean, I understood that my insulin, you know, I didn't have any insulin production. I mean, I ended up going to nursing school. I'm an RN BSN. I mean, you know, so I knew stuff, but it just never. Plus I never went to an endocrinologist who who told me I could add live any of it. I was never told anything like that. Even locally. I've been in this town 33 years. And I was never want to say aloud. But it wasn't until I started to figure things out on my own and met Dr. Jody Stanislaw and then started listening to you. And a few other things that I put it all together. That's amazing. I mean, by the grace of God that I'm here and still doing well. I mean, I I think I I don't even know what my Awan sees were back in the day. I don't ever remember that being something my parents discussed. Um, I don't know how long I don't know when they started doing a onesies. That's the one thing I meant to look up. I'm sure they did. But

Scott Benner 12:46
is is it impactful to you that you're not certain while you're alive?

Pam 12:52
I'm a little bit mainly because in college, you know, there was no blood glucose meter available for home use, at least to me until I left for college. I remember being in the endocrinologist office, I had went and had labs done before I left for school. And the little lab tech came up to me all excited. And she said we have this for you. We're giving this to you. It was like a demo or something. And we want you to take this to college. And it was you know that one that's the size of a brick. And it beeped really loud and it would beep when you put the blood sample on. It would be for the last 10 or five seconds that it was counting down. And then it beeped when the sample number was ready. And I was mortified. There's no way and I lived in a suite and college where when you went into that big communal bathroom, there were always other people in there. And the few times that I did it in there. Somebody always said what is that? Well, why I couldn't just answer them and tell them what it was. I have no idea but at the time, I couldn't do it. And I didn't want to do it in my room where my roommate was, why didn't wait for her to leave and then do it. I don't know. I was busy. So I didn't check my blood sugar much at all in college, which is amazing to me. Yeah.

Scott Benner 14:07
I just know other people with stories similar to yours, who are having issues now. And I just wondered if maybe sometimes it feels like you're in the middle of 100 car pile up and you're the only one that walks away and there's no rhyme or reason to it.

Pam 14:22
Could be I've thought about it some I mean, I don't know if I was 200 all the time. I don't know if I was 140 all the time. You think if I was 140 I would have sometimes dipped low. I don't ever remember going low maybe once or twice but it certainly wasn't a thing. You know, and then when we became engaged, got married, we moved to the town we're in now. I was working as a nurse and again still following all the rules that I had been given. And every time I'd go to the doctor, they told me I was doing great. Well you know as well as I do, I could easily have had When season two eights, and they were telling me I was doing great. But then we wanted to start thinking about having children. And they told me I don't remember what it was because our oldest child is 31. But they told me to get my a one C within this range. And I worked really hard to do that. And I did that. And we had ended up having four children, all healthy. My agencies were all pretty much the same for all four pregnancies. But I didn't have a CGM for any of them. And I didn't have a pump for either of them. Any of those pregnancies and that's a lot of work. A lot of work. Yeah. Worth it.

Scott Benner 15:37
No, why would imagine. Yeah. But isn't it funny, you're like you're a one sees are great. I'm thinking of having a baby. Oh, yeah. You're gonna want to make your agency's better. Did you? I know. It's such a long time ago. Yeah. I imagine the moment you must have been like, so not great.

Pam 15:52
Yeah. Oh, I do read. I do remember them. And I remember thinking, which was discussed on this podcast fairly frequently. I remember thinking, Hmm, wonder why the rules. I mean, I get it. It's a baby, you want the baby to stay in a healthy environment. But I thought it was awfully strange that they had such a different set of rules for pregnancy and not for the rest of your life.

Scott Benner 16:12
Well, they've they've rules for the baby to be healthy, but apparently rules for you to be healthy ish. Exactly. Fine, if she just, you know, is okay. But we don't want to do it to the baby. more fascinating. Like, I'm never not fascinated with with any idea like that. The it's crazy.

Pam 16:32
And the shame, that was the other thing I wanted to discuss. You know, they would, if I guess I had had some, maybe an agency that wasn't great at some point, because I remember one time, my endocrinologist giving me grief. And they didn't tell you. Again, it was before you could check your blood sugar. And it was before you could really do anything about it. So they would scold you and send you on your way, but not tell you how to how to do it better. The first time we came to this town, 33 years ago, I set up an endocrinology appointment went and that was back when you had this three pieces of paper each of them was for a month, and you had to manually log in your your number for when you woke up in the morning before each meal, and then at bedtime. So you take these the stack of papers to them. And they would go through it and see what your numbers were. And they would circle the ones that were over. I don't know, whatever they thought was bad, maybe over 200 and the nurse that I had to meet with, she looked at me and she said Do you think your your do you think you're controlled? Do you think you're a controlled diabetic? And I said well, yes, I think I am I mean I all those boxes were filled in and they weren't filled in the day, the morning I walked in, I mean, I legitimately did it at the time. And she looked at me and she said you are not in control. And I wanted to I just remember being so defeated by that it hurt my feelings so badly. You know, for one thing, of course, I thought of so many things to say later. And I still see her on occasion. She has retired but she still comes into their office to help them on occasion. Like her, she bugs me. But she just and again, she was taught I guess to treat people that way she didn't. She doesn't know half of what I know now. And I'm positive that it just amazes me how I went through so many years of feeling ashamed because my numbers weren't maybe what I had hoped they would be or I so I guess around the time I met Dr. Stanislaw that's when I was getting tired of all that. And ended up going to that diabetes training camp in in Maryland that Dr. Matt Corcoran runs or not Maryland in Pennsylvania. I don't know if you've heard about that. But it's it's basically for people who are athletic and they want to exercise more without going low. That's and that's where I heard about your podcast. Actually, Jody Stanislaw with my roommate. I already knew her. We planned to be roommates up there. But it was at that that event that we that I heard about you. And so we started started paying attention to everything everyone was saying. And I just like the light switch went on for me that I don't need to feel ashamed anymore. Just so I guess I say that because I want I don't know that families nowadays. parents with young children. I know there's some shame still involved. I know that there are a lot of people go to the doctor and they don't. They maybe get the wrist slapped, but they don't receive the proper help. That's one of the things you've given our community. Dr. Jody's given that to our community and maybe a few other people Jenny certainly has. And I thank you for that so much because it just I mean, I'm better now than ever.

Scott Benner 19:59
That's amazing. I'm stunned that like, you want to think that because time moved on and tools got better and technology got better, that it wouldn't be the same story. Like I almost understand it when you're young, those, you know, decades ago, and someone's just like, look, eat a fat here eat a protein here, inject this here, we don't you know, I get it right the insulin didn't work very well, they didn't really know what they were doing. They were still learning. I mean, it's crazy to think, right. But in the 70s, insulin was only even around for about 50 years. So, you know, people it's, it's in its infancy, people are understanding it, I can almost write it off, I can almost understand how it happened today. I don't understand. Yeah, you know, like, I don't I don't get how someone could still and I know they do still get that kind of limited information. It's, it's, it's fascinating. And for a nurse to try to I mean, in my opinion, right, try to boost their own self worth by taking yours away. I mean, because you can say that people are in a professional setting. And there's an expectation of them. But if you don't think that shitty person isn't still a shady person, when they go to work, you're out of your mind. You know what I mean? So it's right, right? Right. So if I'm standing in front of a nurse, who, who has a bad upbringing, let's not even put it on that, right? They have a bad upbringing, they don't feel good about themselves. And a couple of times a day, they need to put a heel on someone else's neck so they can feel better. If you don't think that happens. You're not seeing people clearly. So I mean, it sucks that you ran into that, and that for you. So you're a really, listen, I've corresponded with you in email a ton, right? And so you're a bright person, it's incredibly obvious over the last 20 minutes. And in through the emails, I'm comfortable saying that, and you are, you know, a mother of four kids, and you're a survivor, you're a lot of things, but you weren't a person till recently who could like, shed that. So that, to me, says that it's incredibly impactful. And, and probably difficult for most people to wiggle out from under Do you remember what did it for you?

Pam 22:20
Um, I think it was age for me, I had just, I mean, I didn't get my first pump until my daughter or oldest was in college. And that was probably 10 years ago. I did MDI, prior to that, and I, you know, in my adult years, was doing quite well with that. But no, I think I just, I just got tired. I got worn down from the shame of it all the the frustration, and also started hearing on on social media, and you know, through the podcast, your podcast, and a few other things that there was actually some help out there that made sense to me. Yeah.

Scott Benner 23:01
No idea that oh, wow, there is there is a city on the hill. I didn't realize. Yeah, yeah.

Pam 23:07
I mean, for instance, two more things. ragging on the endocrinology practice here in town and the endocrinologist at that group that I who I see now actually don't really see him, he has allowed me to just come in for bloodwork lab work when necessary, and he keeps my scripts up to date. He's happens to be a good friend of our family. So it's a nice, a nice thing I have going there. But um, when our daughter was born 31 years ago, I took her in for my first post endo post pregnancy or, you know, no appointment. And of course, I'm so proud. I've got my baby. She was a 10 pound baby. But they were pleased with my care with my blood sugar numbers and everything. So everybody was very happy. She was healthy. I tootle, on into the appointment, and that same nurse sees the baby. And she says, Oh, let me take her back and show her to the doctors. And of course, I'm beaming as a new mother. And I said, Sure, take her on back. She was gone for a few minutes comes back out with the baby. And she says, You know what, doctor, so and so said, I was like what she said he looked took one look at her and he said typical baby. Typical IDM, which stands for infant of a diabetic mother. And typically they're large and puppy. Because she was a big baby.

Scott Benner 24:23
She was this thing, nurse from the earlier story. It's the same nurse. May I say something? Please? Your lady?

Pam 24:36
She is indeed. And yeah. I mean, she's, like I said she's been retired and I had to go into that lab their lab a few weeks ago. Just to get blood work drawn. And she was volunteering or working out front helping people with the COVID screening. I'm like, Good grief. They have not gotten rid of her yet.

Scott Benner 24:56
Wow. But that's terrible. Yeah, you know, I don't Listen, I put up an episode the other day. This is gonna be yours will come out months and months a month after this, but I put up an episode the other day with Arden it's the first time Arden's ever been on the podcast. I've already listened to it. Thank you. Oh, good, you have context. Okay, so Arden did not want to be on the podcast. She's literally just turned 17 A week ago. She's doing it for community service. I you know, and I don't mean she didn't want to be on it. Like she doesn't want to help. I mean, it's not her thing. She's not part of this. I know, it might seem odd to all of you. But she even says in the episode, like, she's like, this is your world I don't like I'm not involved in this, okay. And she also she's me and a smaller person, whether she'll say it out loud or not, she's sarcastic and dry and funny and witty, and she wants to be entertaining when she knows it's appropriate. And, and so I like let her come on introduce herself, because she's going to come back on we're going to talk about some management stuff about you know, for when she, you know, starts taking more control of herself, not that she doesn't now and and go off to college. You know, I, I don't know if I was clear enough in that episode that Arden does. Generally 80% of the time take care of her blood sugar's like that I'm not very involved in it anymore. And that's been pretty new over the last year, where I think I've gone more from like, 5050, to more like 8020. And we didn't really say that in there, because I was going to say it in the upcoming episodes. Now, I'm going to tell you that 99.9% of the people who have reached out about this episode, really enjoyed it, they can see Arden sarcasm they get they get font, they know she's funny, and she's quick and one person was left such a rude and horrid comment about her. You know, and and when I read it, I thought, oh, this person doesn't hear sarcasm, like it's it's almost like reading a transcript of comedy. You know what I mean? Like, you're, you'd be like, I don't understand what this like, why this doesn't make any sense. This is bad. So this person took it completely the wrong way. And you know, not that they can't have their own reaction, and that I expected everyone to like art. And she's really, I mean, I could even imagine that that would be not the case. But I don't get going somewhere where you know, other people are going to see it and saying it. Like if you really think something poor about a child, then think it that's fine. And in the same tone. I don't care if they took that baby in the back. And they were like, That's the ugliest baby I've ever seen in my entire life. Is that a horn growing out of the side of its head? Oh my god, a monster if that's what they thought, when they bring your baby back to you. You go, congratulations. Everyone loves seeing the baby. Like, who would do that? Yeah, what kind of a person would what? What is the? What is the like, what do you get out of that? Like, really ask yourself like, what do you get out of handing a new mother her baby back and saying, Oh, this looks like one of those babies that came out of an unhealthy diabetes lady. Congratulations. Even the doctor solid. Like, you know, oh, gosh, that's terrible. hateful. I really don't understand. And and you might have gotten me a little more with that story. Because I just saw this thing happen to our now I saw it pop up. And I want you to know the way I handled it for everyone listening as I just deleted their comment. So yeah, because it's what am I gonna do? I mean, what would you have done in that moment, had a thoughtful conversation with this person who's hell bent on making a problem? You know, so it's not we're not in the UN trying to figure out the world like this. We don't need a spirited back and forth here. It's my baby. gave her your baby to I bet you that pissed you off the most afterwards.

Pam 28:45
So pissed. She was touching. Oh, so piss. Yeah, I bet. Yep. Oh, yeah. And clearly, it's been 31 years. I'm still bothered by it.

Scott Benner 28:53
It's good to say your daughter's probably got her own kids now and you're, you're like,

Pam 28:58
happens to Betsy.

Scott Benner 29:08
Before I tell you about the ads, let me tell you that I came within a hair's breadth of calling this episode heavens, the Betty. Because I don't remember the last time I heard anybody say that. Okay, you're ready. Here I go. I'm gonna reach down deep into my soul. The part of me that remembers things that I've done in the past, just going to work off a memory here. The Contour Next One blood glucose meter is highly accurate. In fact, it is the most accurate blood glucose meter that I've ever used. It's also incredibly easy to handle, to hold, to carry to use it at night to use in the dark to use during winter solstice. That's true, actually, by the way, it's the easiest blood glucose meter I've ever used during the winter solstice. You can't dispute that Here's what you're gonna do, you're gonna go to contour next one.com Ford slash juice box and check it out. It's possible. Possible you hear that the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, and the test strips that go along with it maybe cheaper cash, like you know, hot money out of your pocket, then it is through your insurance. Now, that may also not be true, but it also may just be covered by your insurance one way or the other. You deserve to have a blood glucose meter that is simple makes your life easier is easy to read. And is accurate. Just think about it right now. Are you making decisions with a blood glucose meter? That's not accurate? How would you know? Did you just take the meter when your doctor gave it to you? Did you get your meter out of a bubblegum machine? Or do you find that on the floor of the hospital? Like you know what I mean? Like, are you sure you got a good one? If you get the contour, oh, my voice is breaking. I was doing okay, they're so tired. If you get the Contour Next One blood glucose meter, you will have an accurate meter. It's easy to use, has Second Chance test strips and so much more. Go to contour next one.com Ford slash juice box to get started today. Alright, I did it. Now just let me remind you that touched by type one is my favorite diabetes organization. They're out there doing good things in the world, for people living with type one diabetes, and all they want from you is for you to check out their Facebook page, their Instagram account, or find them on the web. At touched by type one.org. I did it, I'm very comfortable saying I did a good job. I'm just gonna put my head down on the desk now take nappy, and then I'm gonna do the outro and button this thing up. Alright, if I don't pass out, I'll be back in a second. If I do pass out, you're gonna get about 17 minutes of silence before the show picks back up again. But I can't even afford board. I said button that I couldn't take one other thing to say, That's how tired I am. And if your children have autoimmune issues,

Pam 32:15
they do not think goodness, I haven't done trial net with any of them. When trial net became a thing, I talked to them about it. Actually traveling had probably been a thing for a while before I found out about it. But I also joined our local JDRF board. And that also helped me learn about a lot of things. They all decided that they'd rather just have a healthy lifestyle and eat low ish carb plus beer. Some of my boys like beer. But they would rather just keep on keeping on. And if it happens, it happens. Hopefully it won't be the youngest is just about he's almost 21. So it hasn't happened yet. Thank goodness, I'm gonna knock on some wood right now.

Scott Benner 33:04
Well, I think it's, you know, I think anybody's decision is right. I wonder for you? Was it difficult that they wouldn't look?

Pam 33:11
No, it's fine. You're okay with it. I really was because I had gone through so many years not knowing well, trial net didn't exist. It's almost like no, you're gonna find out you can do some genetic counseling and find out if you have, you're going to get cancer sometime in your life. And like I'd much rather not know, I kind of in that school of thought that may change eventually, we'll see if they ever wanted to be tested. I'd be all for it. But I'm also not pushing them.

Scott Benner 33:38
Well, yeah. I mean, you know, if the day ever comes, we're knowing that you're going to get it statistically. And by the way, we have a pill you can take that'll stop that from happening, then suddenly, they'll be they'll be a run on that testing, then, you know, I'll take it to I mean, I'm 50. And I, I would tell you that if I didn't make this podcast, that I would 1,000,000% Never think maybe I could get type one diabetes. Like I would just think I would I would think I made it to 50 Like, that's not going to happen. And but having spoken to so many people, I don't imagine that I couldn't just wake up one morning and be paying a lot. You know what I mean? Like so it seems reasonable to me. Alright, well, Pam. So the first part wasn't great. But it was so somehow you you lived a great life. And you're you have no no ill effects right now that you can speak of?

Pam 34:36
Not that I know of no. Wow. That's pretty cool.

Scott Benner 34:39
And how long ago did you start making a meaningful change and how you thought about your diabetes?

Pam 34:46
I'm probably after college. Had a meaningful I mean, worked probably harder after college but really didn't start to put the pieces together until we got married, but then there weren't. We didn't have the tools. I just worked really hard. I pricked my fingers all the time. And that was 33 years ago. Again, it wasn't anything. Like what we have now, things really started to cruise for me with the CGM, and I had, oh, gosh, I don't think I've ever heard you mentioned this one. I don't know that you even are aware of it. But there was a thing. I don't know who made it called the gluco. Watch.

Scott Benner 35:28
I don't know that. No.

Pam 35:30
It looked like a great big chunky man's watch, and you wore it on your wrist. But the sensor was beneath the face of the watch. So it made contact with your wrist. And it basically burned a little hole in you. And it gave you a blood sugar reading on it. It may have also told time I don't know that it did that. But it did not work with beans. But I tried that for a while and then eventually switched to the enlight sensor, which was the one that Medtronic made that came with

Scott Benner 36:02
the heart. Is that the one they call the harpoon?

Pam 36:06
Yes, yes, it was hard to insert hurt like a mother. And it also gave you decent readings about 50% of the time 25% of the time it was spot on and the other 20 to 25% of the time it was 100 Points off this. Um,

Scott Benner 36:23
let me ask you real quick about the gluco watch. Was it around the early 2000s? The start of the 2000s?

Pam 36:29
Yes, because our last child was born in 2000. And I was I haven't had a horse at the time and I would go to the barn with this thing on my hand. So yes, it was okay. Early 2000.

Scott Benner 36:40
Like a wow, I think I found that online. It did it look like a big pager with a screen in the middle two buttons on the left two buttons on the right. And like a big like, cloth the strap?

Pam 36:52
Yeah, it was brown. It looked like a like a diving watch like a scuba diving watch. Okay, but what I had was round and clunky. And it had a rubber band.

Scott Benner 37:01
I'm finding a different couple. A few different, but not too many different pictures online. And, and you're telling me that it, it made it, how did it get to your

Pam 37:13
it had some sort of sensor on the back of it that really just sensed right through your skin, it was like a photo eye or something, but it really burned your skin and gave you so you had to the next time you changed it took it off and put it back on, you had to rearrange it a little on your back of your wrist. So you would have you take it off, you know all these little red circles all over the back of your arm that were burned. They're basically like little burns,

Scott Benner 37:35
and it didn't work. Oh, and it hurt, didn't work and it hurt. There's there's a sales pitch. The gluco watch, it won't work. And it hurts.

Pam 37:46
But what I will say and rather than I just stuck my nose up at it. So this piece of garbage, I'm not using this anymore. It did that for a few times. Same with the enlight sensor, the thing hurts I hate it doesn't work well. In retrospect, I am so thankful for those companies for trying because the next company that came along, you know, use them as a little they were up the up the ladder a little higher. And they everybody ended up learning from all the mistakes and all the crazy stuff that was out there. So I now can take a step back and be thankful. Of course, I have the G six an omni pod that works so great. And I'm looping. So it's, it's great now that I have some stuff that works. And I'm glad that everybody else tried to get us here. Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 38:31
and that isn't set enough. And I, I honestly, so I'll joke about the old Medtronic stuff, right? Because I mean, not because I have any knowledge of it, because everyone who comes on is like, oh, yeah, that thing you know. But I do try to and I have a number of times said in fairness to them. They're out of the gate real early with the technology. And somebody's got to do it wrong. So somebody can do it. Right. And that's ballsy to to go first. And, and very, very valuable to people. So yeah, so thank you gluco watch back, like for burning a hole in Pam's arm. And giving people the idea that it would be nice to know what their blood sugar is. But did it would need to be done differently? Well, well, yeah, I agree with you. 100%. And not only that, but stuff that we think of right now as being just cutting edge. Those companies will need to keep innovating, or someone else swooping under them too. Right. So let's, let's all applaud the the fact that these companies exist and that they're all trying to make money because that's what keeps them innovating and what keeps them innovating keeps you healthier, and whatever today's version of a burn on your wrist is will be gone one day because of that. And that's a that's wonderful, and less, fewer people will have your story. You know exactly. Yeah. Do you ever think about that if you were born now, you'd have a completely different experience with diabetes.

Pam 40:00
I would Yeah, yeah, I don't think about it, though.

Scott Benner 40:03
Good when you see other people. And I'm not trying to get you to bad mouth people, but when you see people complain nowadays about diabetes, what's the like, in the back of your head thought?

Pam 40:18
Yeah, that's that's how I can't even shake my head at them or think, Oh, good grief. What are you kidding me? Because if I were in their shoes, I'd be doing the same thing. It just makes me thankful that, you know, by the grace of God, here I am. And I'm, I'm fine. Is that was one of the reasons I really wanted to come on this show was to, to tell people. And again, not to not to talk about Dr. Jody Stanislaw so much. But she, she saved she went to her mother's recently, mother had a stroke. And she had to go back to her mother's house and help. And she found all of her logs that from when she was a child, the logs I was telling you about that we would have to take the doctor to the doctor's office, and she saved them for whatever reason. And they were all the blocks are filled with 200 302 50 per like page after page after page, and she's fine. And granted, we're not saying you should be doing that. But I guess I offer that to people because it is inspirational to know that these parents are worrying about their kid having 100 150 blood sugar on occasion, or 200 Here and there. I mean, that's we likely were walking around with those numbers for

Scott Benner 41:28
years is that that's regular an MPH though for her as well.

Pam 41:32
Right? Correct.

Scott Benner 41:33
There's something about it's funny, because I take your point, and I do and I know what you're saying. You're saying to people, like look, if you've had bad go of it, don't give up because it doesn't mean you're done. You don't mean keep going. And then there's the part of me that wants to say, Please don't forget all the people who come on this podcast who have serious problems, who grew up through that same time period with that same sliding scale with that same insulin, and it did not work out well for them. And yeah, you know, it really is a it's a crapshoot, maybe maybe there's a little bit of just genetic lock involved or randomness that you that we'll never be able to put our fingers on. But I just saw someone on Facebook the other day, talking about their doctor saying something, the doctor basically said, Look, you can put all this effort in, if you want, you can keep crate a one sees if you want great blood sugars, and that doesn't mean your kids not going to have problems down the road. And honestly, it's a it's a realistic statement. But you know, it to me falls a little more into the category of you know, if you take my baby, bring it back and say something nice, you know, like, like, there's a person doing a great job for their kid out there. And then you're telling them I don't even bother. Because even if you do well, it might still go bad. That's the wrong way to think about it. And people were having a long conversation about it. And it really the original poster was thrown by it like, well, what am I? What am I trying so hard for if this is what's going to happen? Sure. And I just came in, and I said one thing and I laughed, I said, Look, you could wear your seatbelt and look both ways, and still get hurt in an accident. But that doesn't mean you take the belt off and close your eyes. Like right like this is the best you can do. You should be doing the best you can do. Like your silly Doctor Who told you this was trying to give you the probably the idea of and I don't even know why you would do it. But my inference is, is what the doctor wanted to say to her is like, look, you know, sometimes things happen. And you might not be able to stop them. But I don't know why you would say that to somebody with a small child who's having a lot of success. True, you know, I guess Yeah, because maybe that person had a bad day. I don't or just thought they were doing the right thing. And maybe their execution was poor. I don't know. But it seemed different. This

Pam 43:55
is where you come in. I mean, this is why your podcast is blown up. Because number one, you have fabulous knowledge of type one, my husband's My husband's a surgeon and he we listen whenever we go to our place in the country, which is two hours from here. I always make him listen. I don't have to make him listen anymore because he loves your podcast. And he said to me one day, he said I wish i I wish I knew as much as he did. Of course that was so kind to the other part of me was like Well, I'm on what stop and yeah. But you're you. I think the other thing that makes you so credible is that you're not medically trained and you of course, precede all of your podcasts with that you know saying so and so that takes you off the hook for people getting ugly with you about anything that might not work for them but worked for Arden and you're you just have a wet you're funny as hell, which I have love your personality and your sense of humor, I just can, I'd love to talk to you for another two hours about all that. But the thing that really is wonderful. In addition to your knowledge and your humor is sorry, you. You're so kind and you take into account the person you're talking to, um, you've talked to little kids that little 10 or 11 year old, that was so articulate, and then you talk to 100 year old somebody on to the audit, she didn't have type one, but one of her maybe a grandchild or somebody who had rific. Yeah, oh, my gosh, but you were so appropriate with both of them. And, and everybody in between age wise. And to Wendy, knowledge wise, the other thing you're really good at, which I think people learn from is, you'll have somebody on, I just listened to one recently, who has had type one for a long time, they, they feel like they have it down. They're pretty good. Their agencies are pretty good, or maybe not so good. But they're adamant about what they do. And they do it all the time, care wise. But they're clearly missing a couple of things. And you'll very gently work into the conversation. Hey, how about we, you know, did you ever think about doing such and such? Or, you know, maybe the Pre-Bolus comment, or, Oh, I know the one lady who was going low? And you said, How about, would you ever I don't know that you would want to right now. But maybe you see if the finger just stick looks like and, you know, you just have a good way of not telling people things, but suggesting things and it's, you're very kind about it. And I just think that makes your podcast and your help. So, so useful.

Scott Benner 46:38
That is very kind. Thank you. I completely agree. I'm wonderful. I would say to you that I don't think people learn by being told things. And that it's helpful to keep in your head, that while you're speaking to a person, there are countless other people in their situation listening. So true. The one real gift that people who come on the show give when they're so honest, and allow a back and forth like that, is that they become an example for the other people. And so it's not, it's my goal, to use your story as an example of someone else. But to not rob you of the experience, just because you're the example. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Pam 47:27
100%? Yeah,

Scott Benner 47:28
I would feel badly. If you said something on this podcast today, that ended up being incredibly impactful for other people, but I somehow hurt you in the process of getting it. I don't see that is an equitable trade. So there needs to be a way for you to be serviced. And for the people listening to be serviced at the same time.

Pam 47:51
Love it. Well, you're succeeding. So keep on doing what you're doing.

Scott Benner 47:55
Thank you. All I'm doing is whatever makes sense to me. Just so you know. I mean, there's no masterplan. There's a couple of things I do on purpose, you know, and about growing the show, I'm very thoughtful about growing the show. I just had a conversation with one of the advertisers yesterday, and we were talking about it. And I said, Look, this is a weird, it's always a weird conversation, right? Because the bigger the show gets, the more money the advertiser has to pay me to be on the show. But the bigger the show gets, the more people the advertiser reaches, so they're okay with that. And I like getting more money. So I want to be honest about that. However, my focus is reaching more people to help more people or potentially help more people. So as long as I can get up in the morning, say these words, and they're true. I'm making the podcast to help as many people as I can.

Pam 48:56
Yeah. 100%. Thanks. Thank you. And I hope I'm not cutting you off. But I, I know for a fact there aren't enough of you out there helping. I want your podcast to be number one. I'm great with that. But I mean, Dr. Jody doesn't have a podcast, but she's reaching people another way. And you know, she's got some online courses and stuff that are free. And she does take people private, private help if you pay for that, obviously, like Jenny does, but there aren't enough of them. I mean, not everybody knows about Jenny, not everybody knows about you. Not everybody knows about Dr. Jodi that I'm sure there are maybe a handful of other good folks out there helping. Just I wish they were more.

Scott Benner 49:42
Well there. What about God? I'm

Pam 49:44
sorry. No, you had that one gentleman on one time who his his goal was to help people with diabetes who who don't have access to internet, maybe? I can't remember his name, but he has. He does have a website. I looked him up afterwards. But his goal was to like third world country folks, and just all the other people out there who are struggling, who are never going to learn all the things we're talking about. That was another whole thing that was sad for me like, Oh, God, I didn't even think about those people.

Scott Benner 50:15
Well, first, I feel badly, I don't remember that episode. But there, I've made a lot of them. So you'll have to forgive me for that. If you guys are, I think there's 520 out now. But I but if I could put every episode out that's recorded right now, there'd be like 620. So I'm already, I'm very far ahead in my mind of where we are in reality, which is sometimes difficult to when I edit the shows, it's almost like I've heard them for the first time, and I'm the one on the recording, you know, so it's a bigger thing, access, access to information. For people outside of people who are online, I think everyone's online at this point, you know, are many more people than were 10 years ago. And I know, it's not everybody, you're not going to, you can't reach everybody. So you have to, in my opinion, make the draw the line in your head that says, We can't reach everybody. But let's do the best for the people we can find. And then let's look for ways to find more people where these things fall short. And this is gonna sound pompous. It will listen, that's not true. This could sound pompous to you. If it does, you're not hearing me the way I mean it. But the reason the podcast needs to be big, the reason it needs to reach more people is because whether those people are on the internet or not, they are unreachable. Because no one knows to look for the information. They're all caught in some version of what you've described, since you've been on, right? They just think this is what this is, or the doctor knows or whatever they're not. They don't get up in the morning and think, Oh, my average blood sugar's 223. I should be looking for another option. They think my blood sugar's average, blood sugar's 223. This is my life, right? This is what's going to happen. So you have to find a person, impact them positively. So much so that they're willing to go find another person to tell them about it. Yeah, that's a slow growth process. You and there is no other way to do it.

Pam 52:22
Well, and it's frustrating, there are actually two people that you just like you described in my hometown that I have found out about, and I've met with each of them a number of times, and I'm a 100% positive that I can help them both, but they just won't let me help them.

Scott Benner 52:39
They don't care more, they

Pam 52:40
don't take both they care. That's the weird thing. They're they care and they're always scratching their heads. And like, this one guy has a G six for crying out loud. And a pump. Like, you know, his I went over to meet with him his uses the PDM and his phone, his phone had lost charge. So he didn't have any spine was dead, couldn't tell what his blood sugar was on. Like, let's go in and get a charger. Let's charge that thing up. And then we were eating his PDMS in the car. And he I'm like, Are you going to dose for this? It's in the cup, we'll go get it go try it right out there and get it. Come on. You know, I tried to. And this was probably our third meeting. But I just, you know, now my texts to him have gone unanswered. So I've taken a step back. But that just amazes me.

Scott Benner 53:25
Yeah, that story is very common for me to hear from people. I'm thinking of a number of people right now who contact me and say my friends killing themselves. They won't listen to me. And the best I can tell you is that you can't save everybody. Yeah. And and and by the way, that the episode that came out this morning, you're going to love Oh, good. It's called sunk cost fallacy. You're going to like it based on what you just said just now. I can't wait. Yeah, but so. So the idea of growing the show is, it's it's twofold. For me, it's reaching more people with the potential to help more people. And it's to reach more people so that I can turn back to the advertisers and go, Hey, this is more valuable than it was yesterday. Give me to give me more money. And then I get to send my children to school. I get to pay my bills, I get to wake up in the morning and think about the podcast. And I know that that's a might be a weird thing for people who don't do stuff like this. But if I'm not financially able to think about this podcast, then this podcast wouldn't be what it is right now. And it would lose the opportunity to be something else in the future.

Pam 54:33
You need to get over that and I know you had a rough growing up time y'all didn't have a lot of money but time is money buddy. Your your your value of yourself for these podcasts. I know you're so understated and I do love that about you. But do you deserve every bit of any kind of change that comes your way and then some and that's not a bad thing. I mean, you don't think that way about Jenny you don't I think it's bad that Jenny gets paid for what she's doing. I don't know. I don't think it's bad and the direct Dexcom guys are getting paid for what they're doing. Right? I don't

Scott Benner 55:07
know, I don't think it's bad that anybody gets paid for what they're doing. I might cut off is when people take money in ways that is not above board.

Pam 55:18
Yeah, well, what you're doing is above board. Oh, no, I

Scott Benner 55:20
appreciate you saying that. I trust me, I believe in what I'm doing. And I and I believe in my heart that I'm doing it for the right reason. I don't question that. I just think that if, you know, I'm gonna pick an outlandish number. So I can make this point, right? If I was making $10 million a year making this podcast and let's all laugh together, because that's not happening. Okay. But if that was happening, and I was reaching, I don't know, half of the population of people with type one that I would tell you, like, that's probably right compensation for that. Right. But I still would never feel comfortable telling anyone that I would, I would think that would be insulting to people who work hard at their jobs and don't have the opportunity to make an excessive amount of money. I get that. Yeah, I just don't I just that doesn't sit right with me. And and it's a very popular thing to do online right now. And I can't wrap my head around that there are YouTube people who have very popular YouTube videos, telling people how they made so much money. Oh, and I think that all seems wrong to me, for some reason. Like, I don't understand it. I don't, I don't think they should stop doing it. And I don't have a judgment about them doing it. I guess I feel very strange about the fact that it's a popular thing to tell other people, this is how I got rich.

Pam 56:42
Right? Well, it's certainly not a traditional form of making money. And maybe that's part of it.

Scott Benner 56:47
I don't know, right? I also, for context, don't believe that I will ever make a million dollars a year or a half a million dollars a year doing this. But it does. You know, it does, it needs you need to understand the business function of it. If you believe that the podcast is helping people and that by reaching more people, it will help more people, you need to understand the reality of the business behind it, which is that if I don't have advertisers, this doesn't exist like this. Yeah. And so it just won't happen.

Pam 57:17
Which brings me to one of my favorite things that you said one time, I'm sorry, if I'm changing the direction of where you're trying to go. But I can't remember exactly how you said it. But it was something to the effect of surely if I started an online ministry and ripped people off. I know, I could do it and be really good at it.

Scott Benner 57:36
I do. And half jokingly believe I could do that. Yeah.

Pam 57:41
Oh, good. Um, no. I mean, I

Scott Benner 57:43
was great. But I grew up in a time where there were like four guys on television, who were, you know, pushing on people's foreheads knocking them over and then putting an 800 number up on the screen and asking for money at the same time, you know, so yeah. And in the fact that that works on somebody I feel badly about, but I if I was a bad person, if you tapped me on the head with, like, you know, what was that thing in that first Avengers movie where they made Hawkeye a bad guy, this is probably not a reference, you know. But if you if Loki made me into a bad guy, I know immediately, I can talk. So I would probably lean into that at some point. It's, um, it's a lovely skill, like people love like storytelling, as human as it comes. And it is how people learn. And I just think that there are a lot of well meaning people in the world with flow charts and graphs, who think they're going to help people and I'm telling you, you're not going to help anybody like that. It just it that is not how people learn. And especially in this society, when I could click on a link and hear about how a 19 year old girls live in a $3 million house because of a video she made about curling her hair. Well, let me tell you something, I'm gonna watch that first. Okay, because that's crazy. I just cursed I gotta write down the time right there. So I can remember to think about. So. That to me, I just think you you need to understand where people are. So you can go there and meet them. And you also can't be childish about the idea of growth. Because people come and go out of spaces. You know, like, I have it use Instagram as an example. I have no real impact on Instagram. But I have 12,000 followers. If you think those 12,000 people are all on Instagram all day, they're not most of them are gone. So you know, for you a person who has 300 followers on Instagram, you're probably talking to 30 people. Yeah, and I'm probably talking to the rule of 10 always applies. It always applies if you get I'll give you a great example. I think everyone who lives in the United States who has type one diabetes, or care gives for someone that that does, would if they wanted to make a nice impact with a very little amount of effort. Go to the T one D exchange and fill out their survey. Now, I get paid every time somebody does that. All right. But at the same time, I really genuinely believe in it. And you guys are gonna have to take my word for the fact that that he won the exchange is about the 50th company that came to me and asked me about something like this, and only the first one I said yes to. So I could have sold you guys any number of crappy things over the years? And I say, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm waiting for the thing that helps people with diabetes, and helps the podcast to one day exchange, in my opinion, is that thing? Yeah, if I drive. So the people who come through my through my link, they, they complete the survey at a much more frequent rate than people who come from other places, which is lovely. And I thank everybody for that.

Pam 1:00:56
Yeah, no, I mean, I definitely did it. You make it abundantly clear on your, the little precursor on all of your podcasts. What a legitimate organization. That is, it is interesting to me, you had a lady on recently, you mentioned it too. And she clearly thought it was some sort of other, you know, thing, we had to go have your blood drawn and actually show up in person and wear a gadget or something. She clearly didn't know anything about it. Which is surprising to me that somebody by the time they get on your show, haven't figured out that but I'm glad you talk about it, because it is totally legit.

Scott Benner 1:01:32
Yeah. And it's it's one of those things, but to my point, or my earlier point, the rule of 10s Apply for everybody for but for people who come through me, apparently, but you have to drive, you'd have to drive 100 You'd have to get 100 people interested, just to get 10 people to click Yeah, to get one person to complete the survey. And that's, that's how this works. So even when, when you share the podcast with somebody, if you find, if you personally, Pam went out and found 10 people and said, Look, this podcast is amazing. You have diabetes, listen to it, you still might only get one or two people of the 10 to actually listen to the show. And so that so the that's what people don't understand. They see their numbers, and they get impressed by them. They're like, I have 50,000 people following me on Facebook. I'm like, Huh, you got about 5000? Right. So it's always that sort of that 10% rule. It's never what it seems to be, you know, you see somebody with 45,000 Instagram followers, why do they have 200 likes on their picture, and they'll say like, I'm being throttled by Instagram, they're, they're hiding my posts. And that's not what's happening is that people come and go out of these spaces so quickly. And if you really want to help them, and if you really want to impact them so well, that they will go out and tell someone else so that you have the opportunity to impact another person again, then you have to give them great content. And it has to be interesting and entertaining. Not just good. It can't just be a perfect flowchart for how to get your blood sugar. Right? Because that that's not how people think. And so if you're gonna give me credit for something, you can give me credit for understanding that. It because that is that backroom thought is why the podcast is doing so well. Because I understand the space.

Pam 1:03:26
Yeah, so yeah, no, we you do total totally see the whole picture. Yeah, love it,

Scott Benner 1:03:31
man. And this is all I'm good at, by the way.

Pam 1:03:34
Just pick me up find that hard to believe

Scott Benner 1:03:37
you pick me up out of this room and give me a lot of other things do you like, huh, we should got somebody else except for Scott for this. I just things just came together here. And worked out like this. I I didn't really realize it until I wrote a book one time. And when I was talking to the publisher, after I handed the manuscript, we were having this conversation. I'm not going to remember her words, like but her. Her tone was, you took this really complicated thing and made it so accessible. How did you do that? And I laughed, and I said, if you think I did that on purpose, you're out of your mind. Like I was like, this is just the only way I know how to explain this. So she said, You took a very complicated thing, and it made it very easy to understand. And I said, okay, and I took that as a compliment. And I held on to it. I'm like, maybe that is the thing I'm good at. And then when I started writing more about diabetes management stuff. I was like, oh, people are understanding what I'm saying. And if you really go back and look at there's nothing technical about what I've said, and then they're having results, so it's not just good enough for them to understand it. They have to be able to replicate it and put it into practice. So anyway, that's a long way off the topic.

Pam 1:05:00
No, I mean, I just think you capture so many different types of people. And that's a beautiful thing. Because even though we have the common denominator of type one, we're all different. We have different backgrounds, we, we have different medical coverage of insurance coverage, if we have it at all. And they're just so many of your tips can be used by all of us, one way or the other, even if we're not all doing it the same way. It's just great. You know, our healthcare system has such as a illness focus, which drives me bananas, you know, they'll pay for you to have surgery are or pay for you to have dialysis, but they won't pay for a CGM or for insulin.

Scott Benner 1:05:41
Okay. Yeah, they won't tell you how to stop you from getting sick. They'll only tell you how to like, slow it down once it happens. So that hopefully you don't die as quickly from it. Yeah, yay. Thanks.

Pam 1:05:52
Yeah, I know it. But I do think we can change that. I don't know exactly how to change that.

Scott Benner 1:05:57
Do you think so? Because COVID should have made people think I have to be as healthy as I can be? I don't know. I don't know that. Like, I don't know that you can change the nature of people. And I don't mean people, one person timing the nature of man in the bigger way. Like, I think that everyone thinks they're okay, until they're not. Okay, I think that's how,

Pam 1:06:22
I mean, maybe, but it started at the school system, level it start, you know, if I could take a magic wand and completely redo what insurance companies would cover not cover. Oh, I could fix it. I'm telling you, you could take worse people into thinking about differently. I would get rid of sorry, for any thing, anyone who's going to be offended by this, but I would get rid of probably motorcycles, I would get rid of tobacco, there are a lot of things I'd get rid of. Oh, no, I think I switched it around a little bit. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:06:55
But you know, I can I could make the argument with you right now that, you know, if you can take some of these motorcycle away, and they wouldn't die in a motorcycle accident, but they might be, I don't know, depressed for 20 years, then like, yeah, motorcycles the way they let go? Or, like so there's there's that the bigger question. I see what you're saying. Like, if you just took people's free will of the mix for a second. And and, and laid the world out differently that things would likely go better for people? I think so. Yeah. No, I mean, that's probably not incorrect. It's just not going to happen. Is my point. Yeah. So anything you tried to if you if you stood up today, obviously, this is not you making a pronouncement. But if you've got a bunch of money behind you, and you know, you're gonna like make a push to, I don't know, get rid of motorcycles, then that would turn into you know, that would turn into something as big as the gun debate right away.

Pam 1:07:48
Yeah, yeah. Oh, no doubt. I just yeah, I'm not talking about any debating. I'm just talking about in a perfect world.

Scott Benner 1:07:54
Yeah. world situation. Yeah. Listen, a perfect world situation. I'm a little taller. You know?

Pam 1:08:00
Oh, me, too. I'm about 10 pounds lighter, no doubt.

Scott Benner 1:08:04
Yeah, I don't even Pam, I wouldn't even have time to get that magic wand all the rest of the world, I'd be like, first, let me just get myself a little taller. And then I'm gonna do this. I also would like to tap on my stomach and make my stomach a little more amenable to like a couple of foods doesn't like and then I'm going to try this. And yeah, I don't know if I'd get around everybody else ever. But I guess I would I take your point. I really do. But on the the here and now question of it. I just think that there's something psychologically appropriate about people believing that they're indestructible? I think, no doubt. If your brain allows you every day to realize that you're a soft bag of goo. That could easily pop or break. We might have trouble getting through this life.

Pam 1:08:56
Yeah, no, I was. I was indestructible in my own mind until I started having children. No doubt.

Scott Benner 1:09:01
Yeah. What about that changed it for you?

Pam 1:09:04
Oh, not realizing I had to be here every day to to like to feed her

Scott Benner 1:09:11
closet and come pick her up.

Pam 1:09:13
And yet, remember driving the first time pulling out onto the little busy four lane highway out of our neighborhood and thinking oh my gosh, I wish there was a stoplight here. Like I'm never gonna be able to pull out safely. Yeah, having be responsible for somebody else really turned the switch on for me as a younger person.

Scott Benner 1:09:32
Yeah, I was talking to my son the other day about injuries. And I said, you know, there was a time, you know, for most of time and not too long ago, where if you broke your leg, you were dead. You know, like your leg breaks, you're done. The pack moves on without you. You can't move you're in incredible pain. An animal comes along and eats you. And that's that like, like like that that's a broken leg. And then at some point, you know, somebody tries to figure out It hurts so much. They push it back together, and maybe they wrap it up, put some sticks on the side to hold it straight, and it heals. And then somebody's like, huh, the bone healed. That's crazy. And then somebody thinks about it. And you know, then you learn if you don't heal it exactly perfectly, you end up with pain or a limp or, you know, something like, that was like this process, you know, took a long, long time. And we're still in the very beginning of it. Like, I mean, how many how long ago? Were horses transportation,

Pam 1:10:28
like, everyday transportation, right, like early 1900s. Sure,

Scott Benner 1:10:31
not that long ago. And so we're standing in a place now, where my daughter's cell phone, which I'm telling you as much as it's part of the life right now. wasn't really a thing. I mean, when did the iPhone come out? 2007?

Pam 1:10:51
Probably Sure. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:10:53
I like how you're just willing to like, believe me, I

Pam 1:10:54
have no idea. I'm gonna walk.

Scott Benner 1:10:58
First generation iPhone. Just put, oh, 2007 Oh, there you go. I'll be damn like, you were right to agree with me. 2007, the first iPhone comes out, it basically didn't do anything. And And now look what it does. And it's unbelievable. And in 2016 year before a cell phone was like, it was like this little hunk of plastic that made a phone call and did nothing else. And so, you know, when you start putting all those ideas together, my daughter is wearing a thing right now you're wearing a thing right now, that has a wire going under your skin that's measuring the interstitial fluid in your body and reporting back to a cell phone wirelessly that your blood sugar is this level moving at this speed in this direction. And still people will be like, Yo, sometimes I get a Bluetooth outage. This thing sucks.

Pam 1:11:55
Yeah, I know. Is that not amazing? And incredible all at the same time. I mean, I do I scratch my head. Of course, I do have a little freakout when, when something goes amiss, or I have to rebuild loop or whatever. I do have to talk myself off the ledge because you know, I still have pens and pen needles and I know how to do it. I know how to do it without any kind of gadgetry. But it's not as seamless. Yeah, no, it's, it's crazy.

Scott Benner 1:12:22
Well, I I was just in this episode that went up today that I mentioned earlier about sunk cost fallacy I mentioned to the person about, you know, how we seem to like, freak out by such simple things now, where I think the I think the example I used in the episode was, you know, like, we're, we're a nation of people who, you know, won World War Two. And now if my friends has something a little side, I'd on Facebook, and I think it's, it's, it's aimed at me, I'm upset for a week, you know, like, like, how did this happen? But the truth is, is that it's because things get so much better so quickly, that people grow up with better and better expectations for what success looks like. And so smaller and smaller things look like tragedies. And, and that can be bad for us psychologically. But it does answer why people are like, you know, I don't understand this thing. Suppose the last 10 days of mine only last six days, only last seven days, or, you know, my favorite one, which I completely understand is my medical adhesive gives me a rash, they should fix it. And I want to I always want to say like, you think you're the rule, not the exception. Yeah. Because the internet, you found other people on the internet who have the same problem. They're delivering this product to millions of like, like millions of these products, like you know, to countless people. If most people were having your problem, then you don't understand you're an outlier in this. And but then you get your confirmation bias by going online and find three other people are like that happens to me too. And you're like, this happens to everybody. Like okay, yeah, yes, you and 50 other people is not everybody, but okay. The way our minds work is, I find fascinating, so

Pam 1:14:07
it really is, but Yeah, crazy crazy.

Scott Benner 1:14:11
Tell me about this house that you are allowed to go to on vacation? Should I have married a surgeon? Is this is this my biggest mistake?

Pam 1:14:20
You are welcome to come we'd love to have you come visit.

Scott Benner 1:14:24
You're gonna break my legs and keep me in bed. I saw that movie. I know exactly what's gonna happen. You're picking the wrong guy, cuz I can't rebuild your loop app either.

Pam 1:14:32
Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, I have blessed with this. Let me tell you a quick story. If you have time, please. Um, so speaking of a loop app, when i i built Loop Two years ago, August two years ago, and I say I built it. I built it on the weekend I followed I had been reading the whole stack of loop docs, which are incredible and I'm I can't believe how many smarty pants people there are out there that can do stuff like that. Anyhow, I follow the rules. followed all the directions, I built it at the end is that I had an error, tried to do all the things to fix the error, couldn't fix it. And so I said, If all else fails, let it you know, let it rest for a few hours come back to it. After a few hours, this was at night. So I came back to it the next morning and rebuilt the loop again. And by this time, I had like seven errors, and I'm about to throw it out the window. And because it's not my bailiwick. And so a friend of mine had just built it for her daughter, and she had it on her laptop. So bless her, she brought her laptop over here, and I got it working that way. So this was probably on a Tuesday or a Wednesday. Well, that that Friday, I was leaving to drive to Atlanta to see one of our children and I was going by myself. So I drove down there took a car load of stuff to him. And I get down there and my CGM stops working. I mean, it just went Capote like on day four. And I had, I always pack a ton of things, a ton of supplies, extra supplies, I had forgotten to pack, a CGM, a new sensor. So I'm out of luck. So I get on the little loop Facebook page thing. And I connected with the sweet guy in South Carolina, who was anyway, he didn't even know that Apple Health, you could enter your C, your glucose numbers into Apple Health and have loops still work? Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing. So he told me about that. And then he says I am really five minutes from the interstate, when you're driving back to Virginia was an eight hour drive, pull off on exit, whatever. And I will give you a sensor so you can have it for the ride home. So I did it. And on the way home, I'm texting with my children thing if I if I go missing, this is the exit where I'm getting meeting this guy to McDonald's on exit whatever, off of the interstate. And he sat with me, not only did he mess with my loot thing and fix some things on it that I had not correct, done correctly, gave me a sensor. I got him of course, I sent him a new one, send them a gift card, but he stayed in touch with me. And he has he's rebuilt loot for me twice when it was time to do so. And like he does the screen share with me which I'm so I just want somebody to take it over for me. And so I guess my point in selling telling that is that the community for helping in addition to you is it's so full of great people.

Scott Benner 1:17:27
Oh, it is,

Pam 1:17:28
if I can loop Good lord, anybody can loop because I don't know how to do that stuff.

Scott Benner 1:17:33
Part of part of what I imagined my job to be is to be sort of a central place like a hub, so that everybody can, like, at least hear the same thing. So that everyone knows that there are people like that guy out there. And that you can imagine that there might be somebody out there like that for you or that you could be vulnerable. And I mean, maybe not in a McDonald's parking lot. But, but But you know, like, and allow someone to be friendly to you that it might make your situation better. I love that that happen. That's absolutely fantastic. And and what a lovely story that you didn't it didn't turn into a situation where you were fighting for your life.

Pam 1:18:15
Didn't even get slit to tell about it?

Scott Benner 1:18:17
No, I think I think that your expectation, it's interesting, right? Your expectation should be that most people are kind. And I think that most people are kind. You know, it's the unknown is tough, and there are certainly people who would take advantage of people in situations like that. But I mean, that's a great story, that that then I've seen it and I've seen it reenacted, you know, countless times online where people make those mistakes, like they go somewhere, forget something and someone's like, Oh, I'm nearby, I can get it to you. And so nice. Yeah, it's it's a, it's more common than uncommon. You just need to you got everyone needs to be connected. So they can know like, so there's this really, there you go. There's this really lovely man somewhere, right? He doesn't have a podcast, you don't know he's a great person. He doesn't have access, like there has to be coming together places for people. So because everyone doesn't have the can't broadcast their voice as widely as I can. And so you know, Sue, it is nice to give those people a place to talk. And that's, I mean, I appreciate you coming here and doing that today as well. It's exactly what you did, in my opinion. Yeah. And even though I don't imagine she'll ever be on let's say Jodi's name one more time.

Pam 1:19:32
Dr. Jody Stanislaw she's great. Three free courses online that really dovetail in with what you do.

Scott Benner 1:19:39
Okay, that's on you, Pam. Because if the free course is turned into a paid program, I don't want to be associated but sending somebody to that and because I well know Jody, that's all

Pam 1:19:49
well, and she she does have a paid program too. But you don't have to do that. You can do the free site. She's got great info out there. Okay.

Scott Benner 1:19:55
So, I believe you. I want to say that okay. I have no reason to disbelieve. You're not absolutely believe you and let's, let's say for the sake of argument, she's 100%. Legit. That is also the business plan that not legit people use. Got it? Yeah, I'll give you a little bit of free and then then the bill, start comment, and then just give me your credit card. And it's just $60 a month is $600. For five months, it's just this. And I'm driven by the knowledge that some of those people are actually getting their information from a clinician and then selling it to you. They don't it's not their ideas. So look

Pam 1:20:33
like losers. Yeah, I know, they're out there. I believe me,

Scott Benner 1:20:36
I could be right or wrong, Pam. But this is what I think. And it's derived directly out of the middle of my brain. So I didn't, I didn't go read a book, and then decide to talk about it differently. I didn't, like that's not what I did. Like, I yeah, I put this together by writing on a blog. And then one day, I was like, Ooh, this works. It's like a thing. It's almost a system. And then I taught myself how to talk about it in a play in a way that people could understand. And now it's here and you can do whatever you want with it. Like if you don't want it, like, cool. I don't care, you know, and I'm not selling it to you. I'm just more of a I'm just more of a capitalist, I think that you should get it for free, and that I will get my money somewhere else.

Pam 1:21:20
Well, I think I need to make that. So abundantly clear. And I think that's part of the reason that you're so believable. Well, number one, everything you say works, but the fact that you blogged at the beginning and before you had figured out how to manage Arden, you know, I mean, we saw you from the very beginning. I didn't know you when you had your blog, but I think it's so cool that you were honest and open. And I know you were initially doing it so that you could communicate with family. But the fact that you've let all that be out there, and people have seen the good, the bad, the ugly, and now they see that you've flipped it and you've made it all work. Partially due to gadgetry and pre dosing and things like that. But Arden eats regular food, which the other thing that really drew me in I'm like, I don't I don't eat pizza or sandwiches or any of that stuff. But doggone it, he's made that work. Let's see if we can't do the same thing over here. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:22:15
I just think if you can do it with a really difficult stuff, then the easier stuff is it just gets easier. You know? So and I don't know another way to do that thing. Like you can say like, it's like I've made myself like I've put it out there for people. But even when, like when you said you heard Arden's episode the other day, right? Yeah. Oh, good. I recorded that. And we edited out nothing. Okay, and at when I listened back to it, to clean it up for noise and stuff like that, where I could and put in ads and do the other things that I do. There were moments where I was like, you know, it's her age, and she's trying to be funny and everything, but I shouldn't like, like, I think a lot of people would take that part out. But then all of a sudden, it becomes this practice thing, and it's not real anymore. And then you listen to it, and don't hear yourself in it, or you don't hear your kid in it. And then what value is it. And then once it's valueless, then you stop listening. And then when you stop listening, then new people don't find the pro tip episodes, and then those people don't get help. And then there's just like, I'm just it's self preservation. Like, like, there are going to be people who hear that and think Arden's like a snotty kid. And all I can tell you is she's not. And so I know that to be true. And I don't care what other people think. And I also don't think the internet is the the end all be all of people's opinions. I think that there are far more people who are not on social media than who are. I think that some of the things we pretend are the biggest problems in the world are the biggest problems online. And that doesn't make them the biggest problems in the world. So if somebody doesn't like my daughter, a I can tell you, she don't care. And I don't care. What I care about is whatever valuable things came out of her being so candid. And when you Yeah, no. And lastly, I care that she made it entertaining enough that you listen through to the end

Pam 1:24:08
of it. Oh my gosh. And but she she also I was laughing your ass or something about the G bow type of pen and response was, what the what even know what you're talking about? And, and when you got it out, and we're showing her what it looked like. And she's like, Yeah, yeah, I've done that. I don't really know if I could remember how to do it. I mean, I don't know if I could remember how to use one. I mean, I have that same pen. Anyway, but I thought it was interesting that that you are also thinking well, there are probably a lot of other parents out there who have shown their child how to do this, that or the other. Maybe it's time for a little refresher course for all of us. Yeah, which was very useful and helpful. Um,

Scott Benner 1:24:45
you see the big picture. Thank you.

Pam 1:24:48
Absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:24:49
I appreciate that. Yeah, I will tell you I was stunned when when I was like you know that evoke hypotension was the what? And I'm like, so I stopped like, I know you're carrying glucagon, right? She says, Oh, that thing I moved from my purse the purse? Like yes. And then but what? You know, so what most people heard, I believe is what I heard, which is she does move it from purse the purse. She does know it's important and she does know it's you know, it's it she needs to keep it with her. So, okay, good. Now, luckily for her, and even for the conversation, I have a trainer pen on my desk. I don't even know why I still have it. And so I'm like, it looks just like this. I'm like, This is how it works. And I showed her and she goes, Oh, okay, I don't remember that. I was like, but I've showed you this before. And she was I believe you. So that's the value. Like when she told me she didn't know what generation of the Dexcom she used or that she for years when she was younger thought it was, um, ami pod.

Pam 1:25:48
That's so funny.

Scott Benner 1:25:50
I was like, that's what I bet it is. For most people. It's the thing I get my insulin from. Yeah, like we all can get wrapped up in. Especially if you're in marketing. If you imagine you're the person at Omnipod, who hears that a child who's been wearing Omnipod for I mean, I'm doing the math in my head, but I think Ahrens been wearing Omnipod for like 13 years, right? Getting yours. And she's like I thought it was AMI pod. And if you're in marketing, you might be like, Oh my god, like what are we doing? Like you don't even aren't doesn't see the box that comes in? Yeah, right. She doesn't order them online. You know, she hears me and we don't talk about diabetes incessantly in our house. So we're not always yelling on the pot on the pot on the pot. And apparently, my bad accent when she was younger sounded like something else. And here we are. But I thought it was valuable for people to hear that. And absolutely, absolutely. It was funny. I thought I was laughing.

Pam 1:26:49
Oh my gosh, I loved your banter back and forth that she really is a little you. And you've always said that. So it didn't come to me. It didn't come as a surprise to me.

Scott Benner 1:26:58
It would come to a surprise to her though. She she really she believes she's an autonomous thing, which is great. She's just turned 17 And that's how she's

Pam 1:27:05
Yeah, she needs to keep thinking that Yeah, she'll come back she'll she'll be so glad she's a chip off the old block when she's a little older.

Scott Benner 1:27:12
I'll be dead when she figures it out and I won't get any I won't get any satisfaction out of it. I know where I'll be too old to care like I want it right now when I can really relish in it you know they mean oh funny Pam I appreciate that you get me and that you want to come on the show thank you for

Pam 1:27:29
oh my gosh I totally get you

Scott Benner 1:27:41
well Heavens to Betsy I want to thank that doesn't even fit there. I don't care Heavens to Betsy I want to thank the Contour Next One blood glucose meter go to contour next one.com forward slash juice box to get started today with the bestest blood glucose meter that I've ever used. And I'm I mean that actually Contour Next One comm forward slash juice box. Don't forget to check out touch by type one at touched by type one.org or on Facebook, or Instagram. Thanks so much to Pam for coming on the show and chatting me up. I had a very nice time talking to her. Pam really does get me. And that's why that's the episode title. Plus, I'm exhausted I cannot think of anything else. I'm really wiped out. I'm going to go to sleep now. I'm going to wake up in the morning. I'm going to record a podcast episode and then I'm going to edit podcasts all day long. Like think about my schedule. I'll tell you right now. I need to do three tomorrow. So my best guess I'm going to edit podcast like five or six hours tomorrow. And then I'm going to button up the one that you'll hear the next day. Put it up online. I think I got about eight or nine hours on the podcast tomorrow. But that's okay. I love the podcast. I just am very tired right now. I told you my schedule got. It got FUBAR a little bit and I'm running off schedule. You know what I mean? Like the clock you and I are not lined up. We're not simpatico at the moment Me in time. I think I can find it. I think tomorrow is my day.

I'm supposed to say other stuff here. Hold on. If you want to check out the diabetes Pro Tip series, go to Juicebox Podcast comm diabetes pro tip calm or look right there in your podcast player. The diabetes Pro Tip series begins at episode 210. If you're newly diagnosed and looking for some understanding, check out the defining diabetes episodes. They're also available in the places I just told you. And in your podcast player podcast. podcast is not a word and I don't care I push on. Are you subscribed right now? Like are you listening in listening listening in a podcast player? If you are and you're not subscribed Like if you're manually downloading episodes, it hurts my feelings. So hit subscribe or follow. That's pretty much that. And boy, oh no, I'm a little busy. I'm going to thank you and I'm going to leave. And that's it. Bye