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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 593 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show we have grace Bonnie grace is the author of the best selling books in the company of women and Design Sponge at home. Bonnie is passionate about equity inclusivity and supporting all members of the creative community. She founded Design Sponge, a daily website dedicated to the creative community, which reached nearly 2 million readers per day for 15 years. The blog is actually closed now, but it's been archived by the Library of Congress. Pretty cool. Grace was diagnosed with type one diabetes as an adult, we're going to be talking about that we'll talk about her life, about being creative about whatever, you know, whatever questions come up in my head. That's kind of how this always goes. Right. We'll talk and then I'll say something and she'll answer and you'll have a good time. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. You can find Grace's latest book collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50 Wherever you get books.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor, find out more and get started today@dexcom.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast is also sponsored by Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash. You can learn more about the dash and whether you're eligible for a free 30 day trial at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. There are links in the show notes and links at juicebox podcast.com.

Grace Bonney 2:06
My pets are all downstairs so they should leave us alone.

Scott Benner 2:10
Just as we were getting ready. Arden comes home. And she's got a friend with her. And it's her like it's not her loudest friend. It's their second eldest friend. So I like I ran down the stairs were like, yo, yo, stop. Like, what am I like, you gotta keep it down. I'm like, I'm working. And I know they look at me and they're like, aren't you an adult with a podcast? And yeah, your kids are reading you. I love it. I'm just like, shut up. And I'm trying to do something here. I went back. I was there anyway. Just introduce yourself real quick so we can keep talking?

Grace Bonney 2:43
Sure, sure. Hi, I'm Grace Bonney. In a former life, I ran a blog called Design Sponge all about design. And I just wrote a book called collective wisdom celebrating a really diverse mix of stories all from women between the ages of 50 and 106. I also have type one diabetes,

Scott Benner 3:00
how long have you had type one?

Grace Bonney 3:02
This year will be five years I was diagnosed when I was 35.

Scott Benner 3:06
Wow. So to catch everyone up on the a couple of minutes that we talked to each other before we push record, a grace gets on and says you know, I've been like following you since your blog. And I didn't know that because she's on the show through like a PR person. So like that was like, great. She like struck me very strangely. Right that I didn't realize that this what you were gonna say you use you read my blog? Yeah,

Grace Bonney 3:31
my endocrinologist recommended your blog. Like that's, that's how much of an industry standard you are. I mean, that was when I started using a Dexcom. He was like, You need to read this. This is the place to read things. Yes. It's a parent and a child. I know you're an adult, but this is like the gold standard go here and he was right.

Scott Benner 3:51
Oh, I think I should think better of myself.

Grace Bonney 3:57
Yes, you are. You are the gold standard blood recommendation for the Weill Cornell Medical Practice in New York. Yes.

Scott Benner 4:02
Thank you to them. Do you get that? I don't know that about myself.

Grace Bonney 4:07
I think most people don't know that about themselves. I think in my like previous life when I ran Design Sponge, that was something I heard all the time people who are like, oh, so and so knows of you and what does it feel like to have so many people know you? And that's like, I don't I find that's not the reality for most bloggers, like I think we are usually by ourselves at home. And so it all feels a lot smaller. But I actually I really enjoy that. I'm glad it doesn't feel as big as it sometimes could.

Scott Benner 4:33
I think it's actually necessary. Because when you see people fall into those traps, where everything that's said on the internet impacts them so greatly, you know, I don't even think twice about like, I got a note last night privately from a woman and she's like, Can I get your opinion on low carb eating? And I was like, Sure, and I said, I think people should need to, I think people should understand how to use insulin, and then they should eat however they want after that, but you should understand how to use insulin. Before you do it, and then she kept pushing me for a better a different answer. I'm like, I don't understand what you want from me. She's like, Well, have you ever? Have you ever considered it? And I was like, I guess not. No, like I said, But, you know, Arden tide is a kind of eclectic way of eating, you know, one day, it's like a wedge salad. And the next day, it's, you know, nachos. And, you know, like, she kind of goes all over the place. And I know I never have. And she said, I'm so sorry to push you for your opinion. It must be hard to give your opinion in public. And I said, that's my whole life. Like, I don't even think twice about that, like everything, I think is public. You know, like, and so that took me by surprise. I was like, No, I'm not guarded at all about this stuff.

Grace Bonney 5:42
I, I think a lot of bloggers are quite guarded in every genre of blogging, mostly because I think we're all so used to copious amounts of feedback, both positive and negative. So I understand the concept of that for sure. But I think if you're blogging in a way that feels, I hesitate, hesitate to use this word authentic. But I think if you're blogging in a way that people tend to really connect with, it's because you are sharing things that you really feel about everything. Because when you kind of like take that out of a blog, or any type of communication, I don't know, it's just to feel like less personal. And I think we're all looking for something kind of personal to connect with. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 6:21
believe that if I, if I started guarding myself, because I was afraid I was gonna say or do something that some group of people would disagree with, then the whole thing would be inauthentic. And what would the point be?

Grace Bonney 6:31
Yeah, I mean, I always try to consider like, different communities that, you know, my words might feel differently when when it hits their ears. But I think when it comes to stuff like that, I mean, that's a lived experience. I feel like, speak speak to what feels right for you.

Scott Benner 6:45
Yeah, I agree. I have to say to that, and this is where this all comes back around. It's just as we were pushing record, I was gonna say to you that that I my writing of my book, years ago, really is part of the reason how the podcast happened. And, and so, but the reason I don't think about what people say about me online anymore, is it's because of the book reviews.

Grace Bonney 7:10
Oh, don't read them.

Scott Benner 7:13
So here's what happened to me, I'd never written a book before. And then the first five professional reviews come in, and they're really amazing, like, to the point where I thought to myself, I didn't charge enough for this manuscript. I obviously have a natural talent that I wasn't aware of, and I've undervalued myself, and, and my publisher, the guy that was handling me through the whole thing, he says to me, he's like, Man, listen, it's gonna happen, someone's gonna hate it. So hold on, you know? And I was like that, and I was like, How could anyone hate it? And then Oh, my God, like the next one. I almost couldn't pick myself up off the floor after I saw,

Grace Bonney 7:48
I have so much empathy for that I have just basically forced myself to stop reading reviews. And instead, I mean, I get feedback no matter what I do, usually via like, Instagram or something. And people have no problem telling me exactly how they feel. And I've gotten to a place now where I feel quite comfortable with that. And I can tell if it's feedback that really should be taken to heart or if it's somebody just looking to like, unload about something. But yeah, it's it's tough. I don't I don't even bother with Amazon reviews, my wife writes books as well. And she reads all of her Amazon reviews. And I think that is bonkers. Because it's just people who for the most part, really just want to let loose because it's kind of anonymous. And, you know, people on the internet can be wild.

Scott Benner 8:29
It taught me that if I wanted to do this thing, like say something out loud, in a place where it just anybody could hear it, that I couldn't go back and care what they thought of it. Like I just had to do the best job I could with it, and it would land on them how it would, and that that part was out of my control. Because this first bad review. This person hated me. Everything, the words the order I put them in, you don't I mean, like it was just my thoughts in general. And I was like, how could the first five people have liked it so much? And then when they started coming back in or like they were, you know, back and forth? I love it. It's fine. It was good. It was at least a quick read that one. You know, because that one felt like, oh, well, it wasn't great. But at least it wasn't so complicated that it took a lot of time. And I was like, Oh, geez. You know, but now I don't care. I mean, I don't want people run around saying bad stuff about me, but I don't care anymore.

Grace Bonney 9:27
So it's a it's a very particular skill to hone to be able to sift through what feels like something that is important to take in and what feels like something that's not because when I learned that, I think I learned it by just shutting it all out. And then I was completely unable to accept even compliments that were legitimate from people I cared about in my community. And now I figured out how to balance that a little bit better. But I mean, that literally took me like 17 years of being behind a blog to be like, Okay, I It's okay to take some of the good stuff. It's important to take some of the bad stuff but Most people, I mean, if it gets personal like that, I think that's when you represent something to them that is very much not actually you that they are like hinging it on you and I had that happen to me a ton, I had someone who turned out to be like a professor at a very, very prestigious school in Illinois, write a whole blog about how you would punch me in the face if you ever saw me. And I felt like, wow, like that's a blog about houses really, really got to you, buddy.

Scott Benner 10:28
But you know, that was upset about something else.

Grace Bonney 10:31
Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's what it and I don't mean to discount criticism, because sometimes it's really important. But that things when they get really personal, what it feels like, it's about you as a person, I'm like, You don't know me, you can't you can't critique me as a, as a human,

Scott Benner 10:44
I will tell you that like two years into the podcast, I got like a very passionate email from a woman who was just like you were talking too much. And I read it. And on your own blog, it was about the podcast.

Grace Bonney 10:55
And on your own podcast, it was a

Scott Benner 10:59
podcast, I just like if I don't talk, it's not a podcast anymore. But then I listened to what she said. And over the years I have, what I realized was, is that my desire for to be interesting. gotten the way of me being able to let your thoughts breathe sometimes, because not everybody's used to being interviewed. And so they take a little longer to get the things. And if people back then if people took too long to get to their thoughts, I could hear a voice in my head being like, hurry up, shut them down, move on, you know what I mean? And, and, and I don't do that anymore. So

Grace Bonney 11:33
I totally identify with that I started podcasting a long time ago, because I was terrible at interviews. And I was like, I need to throw myself into the deep end and find my way out. And that's when I realized a editing is your friend, because I still have that voice that's like, this is taking too long. Why are they taking five minutes to and like, I still have that voice in my head. But I know a that I can edit out really long pauses if necessary, but that also people don't feel listened to if you're kind of Yeah, you know, cutting them off.

Scott Benner 11:58
I figured it out the only person now I can't have that good of a conversation with this, my wife.

Grace Bonney 12:04
I think our spouses are always exempt from most of those roles.

Scott Benner 12:07
But everything else, everyone else I'm really good at talking to anyway. So my favorite, we'll move on in a second. But my favorite bad review for the podcast makes it just it actually warms my heart because the person hates me, but loves the content, the content so much, they have to listen. And I'm like, Oh my God, I feel like a win every time. I say I used to have it on my desktop as my screensaver because it was amazing. Cuz she was just like, the guy sucks. The podcast is great. And every time I saw it, I thought hmm, you know, I

Grace Bonney 12:36
am the podcast, right? So listening, listening,

Scott Benner 12:40
it was just it's my favorite one ever. Okay. How old are you now?

Grace Bonney 12:44
I am 40

Scott Benner 12:45
you diagnosed when you were 35? Was that out of the blue? Did you have any autoimmune in the family?

Grace Bonney 12:51
I have now since realized that I do. But I come from a I think very traditional Southern family that just nobody talks about anything, especially things that are unpleasant or scary or health related. So once I was diagnosed and felt completely blindsided by it, I kind of dug into my family history and realize there was actually a very known history of diabetes that just nobody talked about. So it knocked me for a loop. But I think now and I've kind of forced my family to speak more openly about hereditary health issues. It's it's there. So it makes sense. In hindsight, it just didn't, then it's

Scott Benner 13:27
just like, on the level of Uncle Tom has the sugar or

Grace Bonney 13:31
Oh, the sugar? Oh, I can't, you know, it was it's everybody in my family is like very deeply southern. And they were all like, oh, so and so had the sugars. And it was a thing. And that was it. But nobody talked about it even that, and I don't even know if it was type one or type two. I don't even know that matters. But it was really interesting to kind of ask people to talk about stuff. And how many people would just say like, I don't know, no, like, it doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter. And it does matter. And I think it's really important to talk about health stuff really openly. And even if nothing comes to pass hereditarily it's important to be prepared. So I wish I had known those symptoms. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:06
would have been nice, right? I just the way you just said that. One of the more delightful things. I've done this, this just listened to this week, just so and so has the sugars. And it's a thing. That's it and we just don't look don't look at him. He's sweaty, don't worry about it. So who did you go to first with this, like, was your mom

Grace Bonney 14:28
to talk about where it came from or to get diagnosed?

Scott Benner 14:30
No need to talk about where it came from

Grace Bonney 14:32
like my dad because my dad has type two and I was originally misdiagnosed was type two. So that became that was a discussion with him about how that came about. I think we both had a ton of internalized shame about like, Oh, this is our fault. We brought it on ourselves. This was before I understood the hereditary components of type two as well. And I asked my dad if anybody else in our family have this and he was like I don't think so. And then like a week later who wrote me an email Almost like Oh, actually I found out, you know, great aunt blah, blah, blah had this and then I think my grandmother had this, but nobody ever talked about it. But they all died like, you know, the terrible cliches of like, you know, someone lost a foot or something. There was a lot of that. And I was like, How can nobody talk about that, especially just in the way of trying to protect us from those terrible things happening again, and I just kind of got a like, a shrug and a face. Like, why don't we talk about that? So, you know, a lot. A lot of my work is undoing family patterns of silence, but it's, it's very southern.

Scott Benner 15:31
Yeah, no kidding. Okay, so 35. I mean, that's, in my mind, that's almost past the age where you think anything's gonna go wrong. Right? It's,

Grace Bonney 15:41
I mean, I've done so much research now into later in life diagnoses. And it's fascinating how many people are diagnosed like in their 60s and I, when I announced it online, on my old work platform on Instagram. I heard from so many people who said, like, my mom, my dad, my grandparents got it, like in their 60s and 70s. And they, you know, also were misdiagnosed because it's so overlooked. And the GP that I went to, at the beginning stages of my diagnosis. Even after I came back with a diagnosis for type one, when I sought further advice, he said, Oh, do they still actually think you have type one because that's impossible. Adults don't get it. And I was like, I really think you should perhaps, like, update your medical. Like, this is a problem. And I've since switched doctors, but that doctor insisted there was no way I had it. And I was like, Okay, well, I don't need to go to you anymore. What part of the country was this? I live in the Hudson Valley in New York. So like two and a half hours north of New York City?

Scott Benner 16:37
I see. I don't think it matters where you go, you're gonna find people Yeah, I I'm always compelled to tell people that a friend of mine is a doctor. And he has he has an age cut off for doctors that he'll see for himself.

Grace Bonney 16:52
I mean, I found myself through eventually found like an incredible endocrinologist in New York City that you know, travel two and a half hours to to see a couple times a year, who's like a Doogie Howser type like incredibly young, he also has type one. And I find having a doctor with type one has been a game changer, because he is so up on medical tech, he's up on advancements in every type of medication, possibly related to type one. And so that is a real gift and a huge privilege. But I think even the more I live there, when I was first diagnosed, there was a six month waiting list to even get in to see like one of three endocrinologist within three hours of me. And I was like, This is nuts. So that's why I went into the city and was like, well, it's not hard to find somebody there. But that's been worth it. Because I think the awareness of technology is really important, because that's a huge part of this.

Scott Benner 17:44
I really take your point, because I think that I mean, within reason I'm sure you could stumped me on something. But I think you could come to me and ask me any kind of functional daily question about diabetes. And I could either answer it or figure it out. While we were talking about it.

Grace Bonney 18:01
I I constantly tell people who are newly diagnosed to find a season the type one diabetic, because they will probably know way more about this than any of your doctors will. And then especially if you are someone who is a woman or who was assigned female at birth, like the lack of information the medical community has about how type one affects women is fascinating and depressing. And my doctor who I love is still kind of like, oh, well, I don't I don't know why that happened. And I was like, well, could that be related to hormones or like something else in my cycle? And he's like, Well, maybe. And I'm just like, oh, wow, we don't we don't really study this very

Scott Benner 18:38
much to your girls are confusing to me.

Grace Bonney 18:41
Yeah. And so I've, you know, it's interesting to speak with other people who have type one who kind of just done that research on their own. And I learned more in like the first six months of my diagnosis from just other random people on the internet who had type one than I ever did all the original doctors I saw.

Scott Benner 18:59
Three nights ago, I was getting into bed and I look at Arden's blood sugar before I go to sleep. And I looked at it, I thought, ooh, it's trending lower than it has been for the last three days. And I texted her, I'm sure she loves this. I texted her, is this the first day of your placebo? And she said, Yes. How did you know that? And I said, I can see it on your CGM. So we're gonna knock off your Basal a little bit overnight. And that was it like, and I could just tell from? I mean, it just, I don't know how to put it like I pulled up the Dexcom graph. I looked at it. I thought about the last three nights prior. And I say, oh, oh, she's getting ready to get her period. And she's not on the hormone now. So here's what's about to happen.

Grace Bonney 19:41
It is it is really fascinating. In general, the medical community cares very little about women's bodies and how hormones affect them. But it is it's very unique with type one and I think it's it's been important to me to reach out to just a wide range of women to talk about all the different ways that that can affect things, especially women who have had Children that's I mean, that's a nightmare to navigate.

Scott Benner 20:03
Did your did your professional, like some of your professional life lead you to think that do you believe? Because you're I mean, you seem supremely interested in talking to women. So yeah,

Grace Bonney 20:13
that's a big part of what I do is I, I find the best research. And obviously, this is like, qualitative and quantitative research. But I really like doing anything that involves talking to a wide range of really diverse people from different backgrounds, different identities, different parts of the country, just to see how that affects their experience of something. And that's been, that's everything. I did a Design Sponge. That's everything I did with this new book, collective wisdom. And it's how I figure out everything, it's like, let me ask a large amount of people who may have had a slightly similar experience to mine, and to see how that was different. And if I can learn anything from it. And if I do, how do I share that with other people. And so I have like a running email and sort of dem chain going in my life of people who are newly diagnosed with type one as adults. And just I have like a huge FAQ sheet I send everybody that's just cold from all of those kind of informal interviews over the years. And I'm really grateful for it because I still have friends who have type one whose doctors just do not take anything seriously and just don't even care to check in. So I think it has to be kind of a community led thing as I'm, as you will understand. Yeah,

Scott Benner 21:19
I, as you're saying that I thought that is kind of how I think of the podcast now. It's just a it's a list. inable FAQ list.

Alright, I'm just gonna type in here dexcom.com forward slash juice box, see what I get? Blue. It's a pretty web page. It says that you could make knowledge your superpower with a Dexcom G six CGM system. I find that to be true. It goes on to say, now with the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor. Wait, that's not what it says at all. Oh, hell, I can't read. Let me just tell you, the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor does something that is just amazing. It tells you what speed and direction your blood sugars moving in. So the number your blood sugar's 131, let's say and it's moving down has little arrow, and the arrow represents a speed. So you can see 131 moving down two points per minute. As an example, that is valuable information. You can set limits on your app to tell you when you get to a certain number. For instance, I get notified when Arden's blood sugar goes past 70 like on the way down, or when it goes above 120 On the way up, you can pick whatever numbers you want. This way, you can make management decisions when you want to, and not just arbitrarily like oh, I'll test again in an hour and a half after I eat or something like that, you can actually say, I'm going to make a Bolus here for this meal. And if I should get over 140, I want to know, if my blood sugar starts dropping quickly, I want to know that too. It has alarms for like, you really should go to the page and take a look dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. The Dexcom G six is FDA permitted to allow for zero finger sticks. It has customizable alerts and alarms, smartphone compatibility for Android and iPhone, you can share your data with up to 10 followers. That's pretty legit. It also has Siri integration, and so much more. You can take the next step with Dexcom. When you go to my link, and click on get started with Dexcom G six, the Dexcom G six is at the heart of every decision that we make with my daughter is insulin, and I think you would love it dexcom.com forward slash juicebox. I'm going to tell you a little story now that is 13 years old. My daughter was four and we didn't want her to start school without being on an insulin pump. So we went to this insulin pump that on the thing that our hospital put on and in front of us on a table where all the available insulin pumps, and the Omni pod caught my eye immediately. tubeless it looked different. It looked better to me. I thought at the time, like I didn't really know the difference between tube and tubeless it just sort of made sense that it would be better not to be attached to something then to be attached to something. And so we started with on the pod on that day. That was Wow, geez. 2000 I don't know maybe eight. I'm guessing 2008 That makes sense. Yeah, because Arden's been using it for like 13 Oh geez. 2008 plus 10 is 18 2020 Yeah, that sounds right. She was six years. No, she was four years old. Wow. Sorry. This is getting confusing and not selling any on the pods on the pod.com forward slash juicebox here's what you can do there, you may be eligible for a free 30 day 30 day 30 day supply of the Omni pod dash, you should go find out, you could ask them for a free demo. So you could try a pod on and see what you think. And on the pod promises, geez, the music's coming, and I'm gonna have to talk past the music, I apologize. Omni pod has something called the Omni pod promise. And here's what it is in a nutshell. You can start with an omni pod dash today or start with Omni pod today or whatever. And you don't have to worry about missing out on the next big thing. So if you're a person who's thinking right now, well, I do want an omni pod. But I'm waiting for the next big thing that they do. I don't want to get started now. Because I get I'm afraid I'll get stuck with whatever I start with. That's not true. Omni pod promises that you can update to their latest technology as soon as it's covered by insurance terms and conditions apply. But they promise on the pod.com Ford slash juicebox telling you it's one of the best decisions we've ever made. Head over and take a look. There are links in but I can't talk tonight. Hmm, there are links in the podcast. Oh, boy. Let's try one more time. There are links in the show notes of your podcast player and links at juicebox podcast.com to Dexcom, Omnipod. And all of the sponsors. I am sorry that you had to suffer through that. Really?

Grace Bonney 26:21
I mean, absolutely. That's what it oh, wait, does that sound show up on there? Sorry. What happened? I didn't hear any sound. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. For some reason, my school email just popped up. That's fine. Like not that

Scott Benner 26:31
well. No. So I want to go backwards then a little bit. So yeah. I don't know if this is gonna seem reasonable to you. But like, what was your first adult job?

Grace Bonney 26:40
Hmm, that's a good question. What was my first adult job? Um, I guess technically my first job over 18 out of I worked in college. But I guess after college, I worked for a record label, which was terrible. But I thought it was going to be like my entree into the world of the music scene. And I was so excited. And then I ended up hating it and worked for a really small label in Brooklyn, New York, that was a subsidiary of Atlantic Records. And they randomly took on Mike Gordon, who's the bass player from the band fish, and I was at the time a recovering hippie. And so they assigned me to that case, and I will just say that working, working anywhere near the band fish cured my desire to ever work in music again. I left the music world and got a job in PR primarily for a company that covers you know, furniture and design brands. And then from there, I started my blog Design Sponge, which was all about home and design and the creative community. And from there, I just kind of did projects, as I was interested in like, I did some books and some magazines and a podcast. And I did that for 15 years. And then I closed that down. I guess about two years ago now. Yeah.

Scott Benner 27:50
So okay, so I understand. I understand the PR thing would you go to college for

Grace Bonney 27:56
I went to NYU for two years and study journalism, hated it. And then transported back to a school in Virginia Call William and Mary where I'm from. And then I majored in fine art, both of which, what am I going to do with that, and but I ended up like, with building a blog that was all about writing about the creative community, I ended up kind of making a mash up of both of those majors. And I'm just, I have an only child, and I was raised to be like, quite self sufficient. And so I think I realized that both of those kind of half degrees weren't going to serve me like super well. So I would have to figure out something on my own. And I did I think I was quite scrappy in those early years. And you kind of have to be living in New York, like, how are you going to pay rent, everything is incredibly expensive. So I was always freelancing, like five different things at once to try to just stay stay out of debt, basically. And it ended up working out I think I was like, in the right place at the right time with the right content. And that's kind of a blog, you know, unicorn when it happens. And it allowed me to do what I loved for 15 years, which was awesome. Yeah,

Scott Benner 29:05
isn't it? It's such a an amazing feeling. Because I launched my blog, I think in 2007, at the very beginning of 2007. And there were there were I found out later, two or three other diabetes blogs at that point, but no more.

Grace Bonney 29:20
Really, I didn't even know there were that many seven there were

Scott Benner 29:23
definitely were there were carries George's Scott's mine. I think those were kind of like the first and then. But then after that in the years that came after, at some points that were up to 5000 type one diabetes blogs. And he had no idea. Yeah, you just come to realize like it. It's it had I started later, it wouldn't have mattered like it would like the niche would have been filled already, I guess. And you could come along and do great work, and maybe better over what people are doing. But it wouldn't matter if you come in at the wrong time. It's all timing.

Grace Bonney 29:57
It really is. I think most bloggers don't want to admit that but I will fully admit that like, I incredibly benefited from being an early adopter, including with like social media, like I remember setting up, like Instagram accounts and things like that before anyone thought that that was worth anybody's time. And, you know, being being somewhere first, or at least being a part of the like, early crop of adopters has everything to do with the way a brand can grow.

Scott Benner 30:21
You'll you maybe you won't laugh at me. But the other night, I contacted someone who does my podcast hosting. And I said, Should I be putting this podcast on substack? And he goes, what? Like, no one has asked us about that. And I was like, Well, I didn't stay in this game this long. By by asking after it's happening. I'm like, I'm wondering now like, is that something that can be done or not? I don't even know if I want to do it to be perfectly honest. But like, is it possible? And he goes off to find out and I was like, okay, because that's not you don't wait for a thing to become anything to jump on it. It's too late. Yeah.

Grace Bonney 30:57
Yeah, very true.

Scott Benner 30:59
So So Design Sponge, how long did it run for 15 years? And that's like a legit. I mean, I've been through your I've been through this site, which is closed now but still available to people? Is that correct?

Grace Bonney 31:11
Yeah, it got archived in the Library of Congress, but we're leaving it open for a few more years. So it's still accessible online. And I think I lost track of I think it's like 18,000 posts or something. It was at its height. I think we had like 20 writers. But for the most part, it was like a core group. There's 10 or 12 of us who wrote

Scott Benner 31:31
grace, you are in the sticks in New York, aren't you? Yes. Can

Grace Bonney 31:35
you Sorry, can you hear the fire?

Scott Benner 31:38
Fire siren? Yeah. calling, calling the volunteers to the firehouse?

Grace Bonney 31:42
Exactly. Yes, we live like six houses down from our fire squad, which at first when we bought this house, I was like, Oh, we've made a huge mistake. But we have had fires very close to our house. And I very much appreciate them. Now although this sound. The first time my parents came to stay with us. This happened in the middle of the night and it does sound very much like a tornado siren. And my mom just got up grabbed all of her jewelry. Stairs. So I I'm quite accustomed to this. I will stuff in a second. But yeah,

Scott Benner 32:12
your mom just passed you with their pearls in her hand looking for the baby. Also, just like what

Grace Bonney 32:17
nice story was she bringing with her? But yes, that was she was also like, forget everybody else. I'm out. I don't know where she thought she was going. And you guys. Yeah, but I'm very used to it. And they're people who live right across the street from that, which is quite intense. But um,

Scott Benner 32:31
I grew up in a house that was I could have hit the firehouse with a baseball, and they had this giant, it was an air raid siren on top of it exactly rotated while it was going off. So it would like it would just come around to hit you in the face with sound and then it was numbing actually

Grace Bonney 32:49
it is I drove past it the other day right as it went off and it set off the the like alarms on your car that are for like a like Blindside. The detectors it just like started beeping like there was something and it hit force the brakes to hit as if something was in front of me. And it was just the sheer like volume, or the vibrations of that noise being so close. And I was like, Ooh, I believe this is quite loud.

Scott Benner 33:13
So does so I'm sorry. I got waylaid there by that bite. So Design Sponge is a is a business. I mean it it employed people it kept you floating. Why does it stop? Eventually?

Grace Bonney 33:25
I started on purpose. I think the simplest answer is that the blog model has changed. And I'm curious, I don't know if your this has been your experience within your niche as well. But the model of sponsorship became incredibly problematic. I mean, we benefited probably the first five years of having advertising on the site where it was fully the blog Writers Market. And we could charge whatever we wanted. And it was those were great years. And then I think like it tipped somewhere around like 2009 2010. And advertisers got organized, they completely changed. They formed these networks, they force people into certain rates. And it's kind of been downhill ever since then. And at least in my particular niche, the amount of content that was required for increasingly less and less money. It just didn't make sense to me. And you know, I thought about like getting VC money. And that, to me is just inherently not my vibe, because everything has always been kind of scrappy, and DIY with me and my team. And I had some friends who also had blogs for you know, over 10 years who all just said like the industry is really changed. And that's totally fine. It just wasn't for me anymore. And I think that kind of influencer market has taken over now where it's like very much about the person behind the blog. And for me our blog was very much about what we wrote about not who was writing it. So I think we all just kind of sat down and I was like this doesn't I just feel like we've kind of had our time why don't we leave the party? Well, it's still fun and we're still happy so we we announced it and then didn't actually close for six months on purpose so we could kind of have like a homecoming few months. like revisiting some of our favorite posts or favorite people, it gave my team time to all work together to find new jobs and make sure everybody was settled and stable before we closed. And I'm really honest, I think it's the proudest thing I am of that site was just that a we employed people and supported them, and that we closed in a way that allowed people to find even better jobs. So I feel really good about that.

Scott Benner 35:23
Yeah, I so I never, I didn't take ads. In the beginning. I just, I had this very interesting idea that I didn't, my wife worked. And it didn't take up all of my time. And I wanted very desperately for people to be able to trust me. And I thought that if I put ads on it that would take away from that somehow. And so I just, I went along like that I turned to ads now for a long time. And then I'd say 2013 2014, I started realizing, like, people don't read anymore the way they used to, like, people were complaining about blog posts being long at like, 500 words and stuff like that. And I was like, wait a minute, what is this? This is short, like, how do you want me to get a thought out here and, and I just, I realized things were like going the way of buzzfeed quizzes. And I was like, this isn't gonna work. And you know, I've said this on here before, so I'll be really brief about it. But when I wrote the book, I ended up on the Katie Couric show. And I'm on a panel with all these stay at home dads, because the book was about being a being a stay at home dad. And when it ended, she just grabbed me by the shoulder. And she's like, you're so good at this. And I genuinely grace. I didn't know what she was talking about. I, I got a car service to New York, I was wearing a spank shirt, I can barely breathe. I was just thrilled to be on television. I didn't know what it was going to do for my book, which by the way, didn't do anything for the book. Like that didn't happen at all.

Grace Bonney 36:49
You're not alone. That is a very accomplished TV bump is gone. Yeah.

Scott Benner 36:52
Nothing. Nothing at all. Actually, the I'll tell you what helped the book the most in a second. But I genuinely looked her in the face. I said, I don't What What are you talking about? Like, what am I good at? And she's like, You didn't feel that she's like these 500 people were waiting for you to talk. She's like, they stopped caring what the other three people thought. And I have to admit, I made I recognize that I made people laugh a couple of times on purpose. And I was like, I didn't feel that she's like, you're very good at communicating with people. The only reason I thought it make a podcast. When when when the bogging was going away, I thought, Oh, God, I'm going to lose my blog. It's over. And then I thought, well, Katie Couric said I was going to talking to people. And that was,

Grace Bonney 37:33
that should just be like your blog banner at the top. So just say Katie Kirk's that I'm good at talking to keep

Scott Benner 37:37
hoping she'll hear this. Because I also get something for her online content, where I told the most inappropriate story at CBS News studios, which they completely cut out of the interview. But later producers told me that people were watching on their computers privately, but they weren't going to put it in the piece. That's funny. So yeah, so anyway, that's the only reason i That's why I made the leap. Because I just thought I gave a very, I mean, I always call it like a fat kid mentality. But I just think if I'm good at something, everybody's good at it. Like I don't, I didn't have a ton of self confidence growing up. And so hearing somebody telling me that this thing that I just thought was, I don't know, I thought everybody could do this, you know, and, and to find out that that might not be the case. And then I mean, it's blown up from there, whatever the blog used to be, the podcast is like, times a million. Yeah, really is interesting.

Grace Bonney 38:32
It can be a really nice place to like, figure out what you like about yourself, what you're what you're proud about, I think it's a kind of a nice idealized way to think that we all figure out the parts of ourselves that we like by just listening to our own voices. But sometimes it helps to have other people pointed out and I think that's, that's something that I definitely learned from blogging was skills that I didn't know I had, that I'm now quite proud and happy to have. And I'm now that I'm in, like, in my post blog life, and I'm in grad school to become a therapist, and I'm realizing that these skills, you learn blogging, you actually have like, many real world applications that are that are great. And I thought like, after I closed my blog, it was like, the hell am I going to do? Like, I have these very weird Nishi set of skills. But I think as I'm sure you're finding to like learning to be a good listener, and to be curious about other people, that's that's a really valuable skill.

Scott Benner 39:24
Yeah, I didn't know but I'll take it because to your point, I'm, I'm what I was saying earlier, is like, I never took ads on the blog, because I didn't need to, but when the podcast became popular, and it ate up all of my time, I thought I said to my wife is actually my wife. She's like, that thing better make money or you better stop. And I was like, okay, you know, so I started taking ads, and it really it's become a real business now, and yeah, I didn't expect that either. To be perfectly honest. Yeah. Maybe one day I'll be a therapist. This await so Hey, hey,

Grace Bonney 39:58
I really I mean, I'm quite interested in focusing on like medical settings, and particularly working with families like whose children have gotten diagnoses and like how you process that and how the family adjusts to that? Because I think there is this very interesting niche of like, I think, in particular, and families who have kids that are diagnosed with chronic diseases and illnesses, like, it's super challenging, and there aren't a lot of people who understand that, and I think your blog in that community speaks to that, that need for understanding and connection and information, basic information. And when it comes to the therapy world, it's the same thing like nobody ever sits down with the entire family and goes, Yes, it's just your child that's been diagnosed with this, but this is going to affect all of you. And let's talk about how we integrate that how to, you know, make sure everybody's voices heard, but how to like find your new version of normal. I think that's a that's a very important niche of just general support system that's a little lacking right now.

Scott Benner 40:52
Yeah, we handle that by the medical community. And people in general, we handle that about as poorly as we handle everything else. Like, exactly, we just act like the thing that's being said, you know, the loudest, the most important piece you have diabetes now, is the only thing that needs to be spoken about. And it just, it doesn't work that way at all.

Grace Bonney 41:11
It changes everything. I mean, it really, it's like your entire life is up ended. And like when I was properly diagnosed, someone referred me to think it's the Niomi berry diabetes Center on the Upper West Side in Manhattan. And it's mostly for children. And I went as a 35 year old and it was I felt very weird there. And even that I thought was like, Oh, well, all my prayers will be answered, they will have every bit of information, every bit of tech, I will understand everything, even in that setting, which I think is one of like, the best settings you could be in. Still, I came away with so many questions, so few answers. And I was like, I'm an adult, like, you don't need to water this down for me, like, tell me what I need to do and not do. And they still just like, would titrate information to me. And I was like no, like, treat me like an adult. I would like all of the information. But they really still kind of like gate kept a lot of stuff. And I found that incredibly frustrating. So I don't know if that's it's just something I'm curious about. And this stage of life is like how to better support families where there's a diagnosis of some family member that will affect everybody. Well, how

Scott Benner 42:15
did you, I want to understand how you decided that you wanted to be a therapist, so and how far along are you in that process?

Grace Bonney 42:22
I'm in the first year of three years, just feels very long, but is very, I'm loving it. It's very cool. I think the probably the last six years of Design Sponge, I became far less interested and the stuff we were writing about. So I didn't really care about like furniture, products, even houses anymore. I just I didn't care about any of the things that were the main reason that I started the blog, I became way more fascinated by the people. So wanted to like really ask the families in these home tours, like really deep personal questions. And I started a podcast so I could have these more nuanced conversations with entrepreneurs in particular. And then I got really interested in like, what are some of the big societal issues that affect entrepreneurs, and even even like furniture industries, like we don't think about furniture and design being connected to political stuff, but it very much is and sort of having these like more in depth conversations and was getting so much out of them and felt a sense of connection that I hadn't in a long time. And I started to realize, like, Oh, I really want to sit and listen to people. And when that goes well. And when you've created a space where someone feels really heard. That moment is so important. And therapy has been a huge part of my life for like the last 10 years. And I realized like, Oh, I think these skills I have from Design Sponge of listening and being curious and non judgmental about that could actually really come in handy. And so working on this most recent book that's just come out now collective wisdom, in the process of interviewing, you know, 107 people about their lives. Many of those interviews took on the feel of like a therapeutic session, because we were talking about really personal, very vulnerable life moments. And the fact that they all trusted me with that I think gave me the confidence to finally apply for grad school and take the leap. And I'm really glad that I did because it feels like a really exciting new chapter where I imagined it as like, Oh, I'm throwing away everything. I did a Design Sponge, but no, like, those skills have been a very clear thread into this next chapter. And that's a really nice feeling. Yeah,

Scott Benner 44:29
I interview somebody almost every weekday. And it's crazy that you're saying this because yesterday, I'm not lying yesterday, I interviewed a 25 year old girl. And in the first kind of 15 minutes of our conversation she felt a little like nervous. So it's trying to I was trying to ease her into it. And then I started picking away at like she seems anxious like this maybe is this like her her normal level and started talking about it and going through it and asking and, and instead of just keep driving the conversation back to diabetes. I just started asking more questions about that, hey, look, I can ask is like, you know, your mom and anxious person and your dad. And then we figured out who in her family was anxious, figured out that she relates to her mother over anxiety, like they both run out to like fear porn, the news and then run back to each other, you know. And by the time we got done, she's like, this was like therapy, I feel great. I was like, Oh, cool. And then she sent me an email this morning, thanking me for it. And I was like, wonderful. Like, it's, I'm glad you feel better. And she had ideas. I was like, you know, maybe stop, like, stop watching the news for a week and see what happens, you know, like, we just, they're not any grand ideas. They're just things that won't come out in your everyday life, talking to the people who are always around, you know, and I leave those conversations very energized, my daughter makes fun of me when I come out of here. Because she's like, you're

Grace Bonney 45:54
really, I totally understand it's there. I think especially in this kind of internet life we all live now, you know, the connections you make with people online are very real, I don't discount those at all. But there is something different about being able to like really connect with someone one on one, and to have someone feel safe to maybe share something that they haven't before. It's just, it's a really nice, it's a really nice feeling. And it's not like there isn't, there is there are plenty of therapists in the world. For the most part, I don't, I'm going to be you know, one of 10 million white women practicing as a therapist. But I also really have gotten into figuring out alternatives to therapy as well, because I don't think talk therapy is for everybody. It's incredibly expensive. And I've been doing a ton of research and like private group therapy and support groups and peer to peer counseling. And, you know, at the end of the day, I kind of came away being like, Yes, I think therapy and licensed therapists are a really important part of any support system. But I also think sometimes just talking to somebody who is really listening to you, has the same effect. And I think that's what it sounds like you experienced and it's really meaningful.

Scott Benner 47:00
I can't tell you how much I've taken from making this podcast. It's, I used to say a lot more than I do now. But if the podcast helps you, it helps me way more. I know that might be hard to imagine, but it does so many different things. For me, it's a time capsule about diabetes for my daughter, it's you know, and helping people makes me feel amazing. And so there's like that part for me. You know, a lot of people don't get to make money doing something they enjoy. Most people don't. Yeah, right. So there's no end it has the added benefit of actually helping people.

Grace Bonney 47:35
Yeah, it's it's really like to be able to like service journalism has always been where my heart is like, how do you provide information of any type, it's actually functional for people. And that matters a lot to me. And I find myself even doing that. Now, in grad schools. I'm constantly like, building websites and blogs for people in my class just to be like, oh, let's let's gather all this information that's useful for other students that could be helpful. Let's gather resources and find like a clever way to display them that are fun that people will actually use. And I think if you're somebody who really enjoys sharing information, like there's there's an endless amount of ways to do that. And blogs and podcasts are a really, really fun and very accessible way to do it.

Scott Benner 48:15
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, we got pretty far away from this. So you got diabetes five years ago? They thought you had type two at first. Yeah, very common. They they said, Oh, you're too old, which I've had people on here in their 60s who have been diagnosed for the first time with type one. That's a myth. But only five years ago, do you leave with good technology?

Grace Bonney 48:36
Oh, no. The first appointments? Absolutely not. Um, I even will I was, I was diagnosed with type two. I think I lived with that for like, maybe a month or a month and a half. And they sent me home with metformin, which like destroyed my stomach. And I felt terrible. I was eating like just salad and constantly running. And I could not get my numbers down. And I couldn't figure out why. And I felt terrible. And I kept losing tons of weight. And I went back to my GP and I was like, it's not working. And he was like, well, obviously, you're lying about what you're eating, then I was like, Nope, I'm not lying. I would like to fix this, you will not find a more dedicated patient than me, like, come on. And a friend of mine who has a son with type one, because parents of kids of type one are the greatest resources ever. She said like Grace, I think you need to go get your C peptide test and see if your body's even producing insulin like I don't think you have type two. So I went and found an appointment at Weill Cornell in the city, not with my current doctor, but with a different doctor in the practice. I just walked in the room and he was like, I don't have time to look at you. Which at the time I felt quite comforted by that I now realize it's like a little bit of fat phobia and you know, thin people can have type two people who are heavier can have it now. I don't think all that is quite as connected as people tend to think it is but he immediately like gave me a blood test. I think like a day later he called he's like, Hey, you have type one like you should really like find some resources for that. they referred me to the Niomi berry Center in Manhattan. So I went there, they told me about all my tech options, but said I wasn't ready for them, which I found problematic because I'm not a little kid, like I'm an adult, I can very much adjust to these things more quickly. So I ended up having to find another doctor, I think like a month later, who was the endocrinologist I use now, who I found through a friend of a friend of a friend. And he was like, Oh, absolutely, like, if we can get your insurance to cover at least part of this Dexcom like, you need to do it. And I had a real hesitancy at first, I was like, I'm gonna feel like a robot hate this. And I did hate at first, but it helped assuage, like the fear I had about going really low overnight. And I think once that was solved, and once it helped me really figure out how my body responded to everything from food to movement to hormones. It just felt invaluable. And now, I haven't gone I think more than a day without a Dexcom since then. And while it's incredibly expensive, and I think it should be more accessible. The tech part is just massive for me. Like I don't even know how I managed things before that, because it's just so confusing and requires so much testing. So I'm really grateful for it. Although I have not made the leap to a pod yet. I just feel like I'm not. I don't I don't know that that's for me. But I'm, I know a lot of people who really love it.

Scott Benner 51:19
So you're doing MDI with Dexcom? Totally. A lot of people do really well with that. Yeah. Were you married at the point when you were diagnosed?

Grace Bonney 51:27
I was, yes. How

Scott Benner 51:29
did that impact your relationship? Or like, How involved is your wife get with that kind of stuff? Because you're an adult? Like, you don't? I mean, are you like, help me Are you like, leave me alone.

Grace Bonney 51:40
I crumpled like a wet blanket when I got diagnosed. I mean, I had a pretty traumatic diagnosis of like, nothing was working, my GPA was a total jerk. And he kept saying, I was lying about everything I was doing. And that's why nothing worked. And then he immediately said, like, you know, this is gonna cut 15 years off your life. Why would you say that? But he told me that, and I panicked, I lost it. And I just, I spent like, at least two weeks just being like, well, there goes, rest of my life is gonna be terrible. And Julia is my wife is best. She's just the best. And she went into like crisis mode and was like, Alright, let's get all the books, let's do all the reading. Let's figure it out. I read every book ever. I unfortunately, read a book that like advocates and incredibly stringent, like keto diet, and I thought that was the only way to manage anything. I look back now. And that was just way too intense for me. But she went along with it immediately and was like, we're cleaning out the house, we're getting rid of all the things you can't eat, we're only going to stock things you can eat. She writes about food and as a very good cook and used to be a private chef. And so she took care of food without even asking a question. And I think, aside from somebody, I mean, I would say she probably has a familiarity with type one that you do. Like, she is very aware of everything my Dexcom was attached to her phone. So whenever I'm away or go on a trip by myself, she's super plugged into all that. So I literally could not imagine how much harder this would have been without her like she did. I didn't even have to say anything. She just was like, This is us. We're doing this together. How do we do this? And, you know, I think that at some point, and probably a very long time ago, she really needs support of her own. And I'm always trying to find better support systems for spouses and parents and people who live with this because it's very stressful. And it comes with a lot of anxiety. And, you know, I'm always trying to support her to get the support she needs because I know that she can't maybe complain to me about how stressful it can be or how scared she was about, you know, a particular low that happened or something like that. So I think that people who live with people who have type one deserve their own support as well.

Scott Benner 53:48
Hey, listen, I'm going to ask some. You said a lot of really thoughtful things. And this next part is not going to seem thoughtful. But is she really tall? Are you short?

Grace Bonney 53:58
I am short. I'm five feet tall. I think she's like five foot eight. I think I think of her as tall but I think if everyone is tall compared to me, you approach her first. No, she wrote me an email after I wrote a coming out post on Design Sponge and asked me out and we got married four months later. Wow. Cuz

Scott Benner 54:16
I was gonna say good job if you got her.

Grace Bonney 54:21
Incredibly lucky she did well, too.

Scott Benner 54:22
That's not what I'm saying. But I just like wow, did she just like, she's got that like she's very statuesque, and like those women are sometimes hard to approach. Do you know what I mean by that?

Grace Bonney 54:34
I don't know that. I approached that the same way. But I am quite lucky to be married to her and she is very much my favorite person on the face of the earth.

Scott Benner 54:41
My wife is tall. And she said that when she was younger, she could see boys just look at her like taller than me. No. And then they kind of like Pastor by because of that.

Grace Bonney 54:53
That's so interesting. I don't know if that applies to women who date women in the same way.

Scott Benner 54:58
I wouldn't. I can see the point. Yeah, I yeah, I didn't care. I was like, look how tall that girl is. This is great. My kids are gonna play sports. That's what I thought. Anyway, good job. You're welcome. Congratulations. But that's very cool that she's got that knowledge. So does that work out dated? Like, does she follow you on Dexcom? For example,

Grace Bonney 55:23
I don't I mean, these days, no, she's not checking in, it's still on her phone. But like, we're with each other most of the day. So it's not that big of a deal. But like when I closed Design Sponge, I wanted to take a trip by myself to kind of clear my head. So I took a two week trip to Alaska. And I was very much like, off the grid for portions of it. I just by myself, but that was that was very scary for her as well as my mom. My mom is much less involved and doesn't really under suppose my parents, they don't understand most of this with type one. But Julia was like, very plugged in. And we had plans about like, when I check in, like what we would agree, I would like let myself ride a little high numbers wise, the whole trip just to feel safe. And I did, and the plan worked. And I felt really proud of myself, I didn't have any scary numbers, like I was driving for hours and hours through the Kenai Peninsula without cell phone service without any place to stop and get support. So she was like, please, like, take this really seriously. And I did. I packed I had plenty of snacks and treats and, you know, was very responsible about it. I think that trip was actually really important to me, because I I, I struggle with feeling afraid of my own body because of this a lot of time. And that trip helped me like, take a little bit of control back and realize like, yeah, if I plan ahead, I can do just about anything I would have done before. I don't know that I would feel safe to do like, a giant thru hike or something for like weeks on end. But that felt doable. And I'm glad I did it.

Scott Benner 56:50
Can you tell me the difference between feeling like an attack could come from within versus like you were a woman alone driving through Alaska, like, which were you more concerned about

Grace Bonney 57:01
the attack from within 1,000% I probably should have been more concerned about the other one. But again, it wasn't like hiking on my own. I was like sightseeing in a car. And I think I think as a small a smaller statute, like person I, I always am quite aware of my surroundings, and who's around me and where my exits are and all that sort of stuff. But that's just like being a woman in the world. And so I was very cautious of like, Where's My Car? Who's near my car? Like? Or do they know what hotel I'm going into. I vetted all of my Airbnb with people who live locally, which was really smart. And I made sure I knew somebody on the ground. At every major city I stopped in, I didn't actually know anybody personally who lived there. But through the internet, and people I knew who were bloggers or makers or creative people of some sort, I found people ahead of time to be like, Okay, this is the person I'm going to know, while I'm in Anchorage, this is the person I'm going to know, while I'm in Homer, or wherever, and I had people to be in touch with who knew to like check in or that they expected me. So you know, I think if you're a woman traveling alone, these are things that you like, constantly plan ahead for. And I think diabetes actually prepares me very well for that, because I just I don't leave the house ever, without like planning and making sure I have stuff that I need with me.

Scott Benner 58:20
You know, the checking, the idea of checking in with virtual strangers would have struck me oddly, up until this year, when a family who listens to this podcast put me and my son up for a couple of days in Seattle, when I just I was stuck. And I didn't know what else to do. And I asked online if people knew about a place I could stay. And they just offered. And we did it. Yeah, that was really one.

Grace Bonney 58:39
Yeah, there are certain communities through which I will trust more than I would normally. And I think I did, I found people through my type one community who were in Alaska, which was great people through like, the LGBTQ community that I'm a part of I found and I just felt like I inherently trust these groups of people a little bit more than just somebody who I knew through Design Sponge in general. And that came in really handy. It also just gave me people to like hang out with which was nice. But that was I think I've always wave more afraid of like what my body could do to itself work could happen to my body than I am from something on the outside.

Scott Benner 59:17
So I have a delicate question. Do you guys ever talk about having kids

Grace Bonney 59:21
type one wouldn't stop me from from doing any of that interesting question in that I think we live in an incredibly ableist society that views people with chronic illnesses or disabilities or any diseases as like, Should we do this? And, you know, I very much function under the belief that most people in society will experience a disability of some sort probably way earlier than they anticipated. And I know plenty of people who have chosen not to have kids or who have gone through certain steps of fertility and then maybe opted out of it because of things that have you know, popped up And I don't know, I think as someone who lives with a disability I, I have a really big problem with that I think everyone is totally entitled to make their choices with their body. Absolutely. But I think society sends people a message that somehow that's like a damage or something. And, you know, you actually have to consider what you can't afford to deal with as in terms of like medications and things like that, because that's a very real expense. But it's also just the risk of having a family, there's 10 million risks that come with having children. So

Scott Benner 1:00:31
I asked that question a lot of people, because I'm always interested by how they answer and people fall into camps, obviously. Yeah, but usually type ones will say, like, adult type ones will say like, well, it's no big deal, because they don't see it as a big deal in their own life, where if they do, yeah, then they talk about, well, maybe we wouldn't, because it's their struggle, they're projecting on the next person, which I think is part of what you were saying, which is people Yeah, trying to manipulate the outcome of life, I guess, to some degree, you know, they mean,

Grace Bonney 1:01:02
and it's just, it's frankly, inaccurate to assume that most of us won't have something go wrong with our body at some point. It's just not like an American culture, that's just not we project, the idea that you could have this body where nothing ever goes wrong. And that's just not true. And it's funny, like most of my friends who are moms who have kids with type one, they have gone out of their way to foster adopt support kids that have type one who don't have that type of understanding in their life. And so I've just never known anybody who's who has avoided that so much as people who have opened their arms even more, because they understand what that is like. And so I don't that that's just been my experience of the type one community and maybe I've just fallen into a particularly welcoming subset of people. No,

Scott Benner 1:01:47
no, I think you're probably right. It's just I think it's where along in the process, you are, like, I know that I, my wife, and I talked about having three children. And when our son was diagnosed as our second kid, we were like, okay, like, but that we were just really overwhelmed. Like, yeah, I don't think I could have taken another baby. Even if it didn't have diabetes, to be perfectly honest. At that point. Would I be scared to have a baby that had diabetes? Now? I only because I'm 50. And my back hurts. But other than that, like, you know, no. Yeah. So yeah, I agree with you. I just I'm I love to hear people talk. Talk their way through it.

Grace Bonney 1:02:23
Yeah. I think disability rights and the way we talk about ableism in America is something I really, really care about. And I just get really weary of people. I think, just I think it's something to be delicate with. I'm glad you said it was a delicate question, because it is a delicate question. Like, I think people who especially live with more visible disabilities, like get disgust as if those are things to be avoided. But I think the actual question is just like, do you feel prepared to take on the inevitable risk that is becoming apparent because any number of things could happen to kids? And in addition to type one, and, you know, some people handle that better than others? And it's always a challenge. Yeah. And I think differences

Scott Benner 1:03:05
in general, just, they do well to be you do well to be exposed to them, you know, like, Yes, right? Exposure just creates normal, you know, normal feeling for you. And then you don't have those weird, like, that's not, you know, quote unquote, right? Whatever it is, when you look up at it, and it's just something you haven't seen before, is all we were talking the other day, my daughter's one of my daughter's really good friends moved out of town. And so this girl's Indian, I would say my town's probably about 15 or 18%, Indian, and then she moved to a different town that was heavily Indian and not a lot of Caucasian people. And I asked her what the difference has been like, and she said, it's funny, I don't have a lot of Caucasian friends in my new place. And I said, why not? And she goes, it seems different there than it did here. And I said, why? And she was, I don't know, I think they feel like the minority. And I think that's why we stay away from each and she's, she's 17. She's having this whole big conversation about she's like, but I don't have one white friend, she told me for my new school. And and I said, Do you miss it? And she goes, yes, and no, you know, but, but. But as it's happening, I watched my daughter who grew up in a pretty mixed place. And she doesn't understand why any of this would be important. Like she doesn't care what people look like or what color they are vice, you know, sexuality. None of it matters to her at all. And then I just think that that the same can be said for everything. You just need to be around things till you're comfortable. Once you're comfortable. You know, you'll probably stop having the same questions you had before you were ignorant about the things you didn't know.

Grace Bonney 1:04:43
Yeah, and it's I mean, I never blame ever individuals for people struggling with questions related to differences and I mean, I know this statistic only because I just finished a huge final project on this for school. I did my like, kind of final project. This year on disability rights related to therapy, and like 60% of America lives with a disability. And it's just disabilities that we don't typically acknowledges disabilities. Because I think when we think of that word, we think of like people with physical, quite visible disabilities. But a lot of chronic diseases are in that category, including type one. And so I think if we treated differences to quote unquote, differences as the actual norm

Scott Benner 1:05:29
Yep, you froze. Gray super Frozen. Frozen, frozen, frozen. gratiae. Really frozen? Yeah, you're, you're coming back now.

Okay, can you hear me? Yes. As the norm.

Grace Bonney 1:05:50
Okay. Okay. All right. Should maybe I should leave my camera off, is that make the signal better?

Scott Benner 1:05:55
I don't know. We were great. Right up until then.

Grace Bonney 1:05:57
Okay, cool. It's probably just rural internet. I think what frustrates me so much about the way our culture likes to handle people who are slightly different is that we like separate people. And we make it seem as if those differences are like, minorities, or are like, so rare specialties or special needs. And all of that hate that, like, far more of us have something that is different, or, I don't know, something that is just considered by mainstream culture to be, like, less than desirable, but we actually all have something like that. And if we actually connected with those things, and saw them as widespread as they really are, I think we would have more of the support that we need, because instead we kind of go like, Oh, that's not desirable like that disability is a problem, I'd rather like, find a way to get that out of something. And I don't know, I just I'm very much a fan of like, making people realize how much like differences are actually the norm.

Scott Benner 1:06:53
I think of it as like a light switch culture where people don't want, they just want to go to the doctor and say, there's something wrong with me, give me a pill, I want this to be over or tell me what to do. So it can stop. And maybe that thinking permeates a lot of different things. You look at something that's different, that's different, just get away from me, I don't want to have to learn about a new thing. I just want my happy little cycle to keep cycling through.

Grace Bonney 1:07:18
I mean, our culture is terrified of death. So I think that's why we all like in every trickle down version of that. It's just people being like, how do I keep that away from me, I don't want to be close to that I don't want to be close to anything that reminds me of sickness, or death or disability, like it's all just definitely push away. And I think it will be a lot less scary if we actually just like, let ourselves learn more about it. And I mean, the more I've learned about type one, the less afraid of it I am the more I've learned about every disability that I have friends who live with like the less afraid I feel, and I just wish people could feel that sense of connection that I think a lot of people in the type one community have with each other. It's just it's a really valuable support system.

Scott Benner 1:07:58
About three months ago, my mom found out that she had cancer, she's 79. And it's, we think contained pretty much in her reproductive organs. And so took a couple of weeks to find out what was going on. And she just kept during that time telling me like Scott, I just want to know what's happening. And honestly, gracias, I don't care what happens. I just want to know what's happening. That was kind of her mantra that she found out. And she said, Well, I'm gonna have the surgery. And I was like I said, Mom, it might be really, like, painful, like, you know, are you sure? And she's like, I'm gonna go down, I'm going to go down swinging. And I was like, Alright, I said, Okay, let's do it. She's now five days out of surgery. Like she's just or it's coming up in five days, I should say, and she has not changed her tune at all. She's just like, if she's it, she literally sat next to me and said, Listen, if I die during the surgery, okay. I was like, Oh, what is that clarity come with age or something? You know, like, like, she's just like, yeah, she's like, big, but if I don't do anything, I'm gonna die anyway. And it's gonna happen soon. And so let's try and she doesn't if it works great. And if it doesn't, all that I tried. Yeah. Wow. Like, but none of that like, no matter how much you talk to her unless she's very good at hiding it. The fear of dying is gone. Like she just has clarity. It's very interesting. So

Grace Bonney 1:09:26
it's, it's something that I think does come with age. It's like, it's why I wrote this book that I wrote, because I really wanted to sit with people who have had the privilege of living, you know, to be 7080 90 100. Because I think with that age comes just a sense of clarity. I don't have a sense of ease. I don't know what that actually comes. I think there's still there's still fear, there's still anxiety. There's still things that feel overwhelming, but I think you have lived through enough that you start to understand that you can't change most thing, all you can do is change how you respond to it. And that was a lesson I really took away from working on this book was that like, Okay, I need to stop worrying about like, what if my diabetes progressives to this what if it causes this other condition? Like, all of these things that I think I sometimes spiral about? And if we just take a minute to be like, Yeah, most of those things are inevitable. Like, as you get older, things start to break down. It's just what bodies do. And sometimes that happens earlier than with other people. Like I did an interview the other day, and this girl said, oh, you know, do you consider yourself middle age? And then she stopped and said, Well, you're not middle aged, you're 40, you have until you're 50. Then I stopped. And I said, I'm actually going to push back on that, because everybody's life expectancy is different. And so I think if we assume that, like 45, or 50, is the given like, we may not be factoring in people who just live with other conditions that can affect that. And I don't know, I've really learned to kind of make space for thinking about this sort of stuff, because I think it does make the big things a little more manageable, maybe not less scary, but more manageable.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
I'm always very touched when older people who have had diabetes for a long time, just talk about how grateful they are to be alive in general. Yes,

Grace Bonney 1:11:17
I mean, he's not that old. But I think about Victor Garber all the time, a because I loved alias, and B, I didn't know he had type one until like six years ago. And I like sought out all these interviews with him about like, what it was like to grow up in a time where there were no resources or technology or anything like that. And it's just, it's a completely different thing. So to be alive and have type one, and to have a body that's still mostly functioning. That's amazing. And I find that like, I hate the word inspirational. I think sometimes that like is a little patronizing. But I just really appreciate that there are those voices in that community. And I wish we actually highlighted them a little bit more in the type one community in favor of like, young, famous people like the Jonas Brothers or whatever, I just, I really think it would be nice to hear from people who, like, have some road behind them when it comes to dealing with this.

Scott Benner 1:12:07
Somebody just asked me today if I was gonna ask a famous person to be on the podcast. Like, I don't really care. I just I'm like, I don't know. Like, I don't care. But in the very first year of the show, so episode 43 is with Victor Garber.

Grace Bonney 1:12:23
Oh, my God, I have to go back and listen to

Scott Benner 1:12:26
how good I was at this six years ago. But I remember having a so I can tell you my Victor Garber story, which is, I got him set up. He was filming something in Vancouver. It was coming up on Christmas. I was very new at all this. We had this amazing conversation. It ended. And I realized that I had recorded my voice and not his.

Grace Bonney 1:12:49
Oh, I have made that mistake. Okay, I feel for you. So I have been there. I had

Scott Benner 1:12:54
this phone number of this like vacation home where Victor Garber was with his husband. And I just was only supposed to ever call it once. And that was the end of it. And I call back and I said, Mr. Garber, this is Scott. We just and he's like, Hi, what's wrong? And I told him and I said, I'm so sorry. It's not going to come out. I apologize. It's completely my fault. And he goes, I'm very busy right now, but I will find time and we'll do it again. And he did and he was lovely. Like, really? Really? He

Grace Bonney 1:13:20
seems so lovely. I know. Like, I try not to put people on pedestals because they're humans, but like, I just really love him. He just seems so. So kind. I

Scott Benner 1:13:28
mean, he just he left Canada as a team to be in show business with diabetes. And he just just went like, it's it's fascinating, but not not the point. The point is, is that I you will probably listen to it. And Victor Garber will be great. And you'll think, oh, wow, Scott has gotten better at this. He is terrible. But I've done like, 600 of these. And a lot. Yeah. And I am definitely starting to catch my rhythm. Like just very recently, I think. So I'm sorry, we got away from it for a second. But your your book, I just was looking at it. And it's already like jumping up like it's selling very well already. Congratulations, only been out for a couple of days.

Grace Bonney 1:14:09
Oh, thanks. Yeah, I'm really happy with this. But it's the most personal book I've ever done, where I didn't talk about work. I didn't talk about people's entrepreneurial skills or what they make it was more about like, what have you lived through? And what has that taught you? And what did you wish, you know, and how is your idea of happiness changed over time? Because that was my my real curiosity because as I get older, I'm what I need and what matters to me. It's constantly shifting. And I was just so curious to ask people like what that looks like. And I think because I interviewed women, the majority of the book focuses on women from like, quote, unquote, marginalized communities and women of color women with disabilities, queer women, and you know where you come from and, and what community you come from really shapes how you view the world and even time and I was so so moved by how people were just like, you just have to slow down, like everything about the culture we live in right now is telling you to rush. And that is a horrible idea. And I finished this book, and I felt so much calmer, because I felt like yeah, all the things I'm afraid of, they're not going to go away. But I can try to think about how I respond to them and not respond in a way that is so full of like anxiety and get this off of my plate, like everyone was like, these fears just keep coming up in different forms. Like, you'll always be afraid of death, you'll always be afraid of illness, it's just what we've like been raised in. So just learn to approach that with a little bit less anxiety and know that it's a given. And I think that people who live with type one, have a particularly good understanding of that. And I think being aware of the ways that things that are scary, are constantly woven into the things that are also wonderful and joyful. Like that, to me is like the meaning that comes with getting older, as you get to see those places where joy and fear and pleasure and pain are all like very much overlapping each other all the time. And that like sense of poignancy is what I really took away from this book.

Scott Benner 1:16:15
Yeah, I'm 50 now, and I would say that you get as much time as you get, there's no way to know how much time that is, you should be living your life and enjoying your time not spending your life worrying about getting more life, which is no matter how much older yet you're still gonna have that, like that, that voracious desire to like, I need to be healthier, so I can live longer. And instead of doing mean, it's like you're, you're wasting the time you have worrying about not having time. It's an oxymoron. It doesn't none of that makes sense. These ideas meet with each other completely. And yet, that is what people do.

Grace Bonney 1:16:58
Yeah, I mean, that's what American culture does. It's what predominantly white American culture does. And that was what was so nice about I interviewed a lot of women who were Asian, or who were indigenous. And those communities in particular, have a very different relationship to aging and to death. And those are things that are discussed. And, you know, it's revered, and look forward to getting older. And I think that was so interesting, and nice to see, because I felt like the only option was to always be afraid of getting older. And I really clearly see now that to get older is a huge privilege. And it's not something that we should be afraid of. And there are so many people who don't get the opportunity to get older. And so I wish our culture would kind of expand our understanding of what aging actually is because those people are not only wonderful resources for all of us, but we are also resources for them. And those of us who are younger, absolutely have something to offer people who are older and vice versa. And I think

Scott Benner 1:17:58
we don't know, we stay in our groups a little

Grace Bonney 1:18:01
Yeah, it's that siloing again, it's what like all giant oppressive systems do is just like separate people constantly. And because, you know, those, those oppressive systems get more control when we all feel alone and afraid. And that's part of what I loved about this book was I wanted to remind people like No, no, we all have so much more in common than we do that our differences. And if we just ignore the systems that say, younger people, and older people don't have enough in common to be friends, we would all actually build community because at the end of the day, every single woman in that book agreed, the thing that made getting older, easier, and more meaningful and more and with more joy is having people around you that you cared about. And so I think it's never too early to start building community and people with type one have a particular skill, I think that we have learned the importance of having other people around us who are not just support systems, but who understand our experience. And so that really, really hit me hard with this book was like, Oh, these are all women who realized what really matters is the people you spend your time with, like, how much you have, what your house looks like, what your car looks like, like, you know, none of those things really matter. Like, yes, money matters. You need money to live and to take care of yourself. But when it comes down to what will matter when you're like 90 years old, if you're lucky enough to live that long, and you're sitting on a porch and you know, just taking in the day like who's there with you? Yeah, that's that's what matters the most.

Scott Benner 1:19:29
I think that the entire focus of my life now is finding a place to retire that is central to both of my children and seeing how much time I can spend with my wife. Before I go, like I really got so much more about it than that. But I can see how growing up, it was segmented into like, you know, meet each other. Be Young. stay stuck to somebody make a baby raise the baby, make money, make money, raise the baby, raise the baby, the baby needs money, the baby's gonna need more money when it gets older. And now you're old, try to try to hold on long enough to give the kids the rest of the money you're trying to make before you die. Like that. That's literally how my life was set up. And not by anybody, honestly, just but like you said, like the machine, the system, how it works. And then yeah, we and we just missed each other. Like really think too. I don't see very many people who aren't in my quote, unquote, like, leg of the race, I guess, you know, which is a shame. But I do my best to stay connected. I listen to my kids music still. Even when I don't like even when I'm like, like, I look at my son. I'm like, Who is this? He's like, it's Dave East. And I'm like, Okay, I'll try it, you know, and then I'm like, I like Davies. And but I don't like it for the same reason. He likes it. I always talk about the quality of the guy's voice and my son's like, What are you talking about? Like, voice is so deep? Don't you love it? And he's like, I don't know, that part. I hear the beat. I was like, I don't care about the beat. And so, but But yeah, you to be connected to other people that have these ideas. And, and, and these life experiences that you don't have a lot of perspective, you know,

Grace Bonney 1:21:15
that like, desire to stay curious about life is I think what keeps people feeling connected to life and a really important way, I was almost gonna say younger, but I think that's a little ageist. But I think that, like, everyone I interviewed was like, I asked them, How old do you feel internally, and most people said, like, between 40 and 60, even if you know, didn't matter how old they were. And those were the ages, they felt most of themselves. And that made me feel quite happy to know that like, you know, mainstream culture tells us our best years are behind us after like 25. And that is everybody interviewed was like that is absolutely not true. Like you really don't really get to know yourself and feel comfortable in that until you're much much older. And I really appreciated kind of the reminder that really good things are to come. And the more that you invest in finding the people that matter to you and trying to find more ways to connect with them. Like, the more you get to enjoy those years. And so, you know, I know that there are many members of my type one community, they will absolutely be with me, if we all are lucky enough to make it into our 80s and 90s, which I hope we are. Those people are friends for life, like we can get in fights and get mad at each other. And we still are there for each other. And I don't I don't have a lot of friendships like that. But I think when you have something in common like this, this disease in particular, like it really unites you in a way that's that's very important. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:22:43
I 1,000,000% agree with you. And I will tell people collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50 is available now. I would imagine everywhere books are sold. I'm looking at it on Amazon, but other places, right? Yeah, they should definitely buy it. Because I'm gonna I'm, you know, I'm going to get it from my wife, who is a very head down, working hard white lady, who always tells me, as soon as this is done, then I'll have time. And she's been saying that for 30 years. So it's hard,

Grace Bonney 1:23:16
it's so hard to escape that it's really, it's really hard. And I imagine the level of anxiety and stress that you all have lived with adjusting to life with type one diabetes as part of your inner circle, like, that creates a certain level of pressure on parents that's like, that's very real, and, you know, makes a lot of sense that that would be something that feels like the thing to do,

Scott Benner 1:23:39
it definitely changed the course of what I thought my life was gonna be like. And absolutely, I never thought this would be. I mean, to look back 30 years ago, and to say that, you know, see me at 20. And if you would have pointed me and said that guy right there, he's going to talk to a lot of people about their health and their happiness, you'd be like, I think you're pointing at the wrong guy, maybe like there's no way you would have thought that was going to be me and but my, my I don't want to say journey because that sounds douchey. But my but my. But my journey has definitely led me to this place. And I am as happy with myself as a person now as I've ever been. And I don't even think I started becoming a real adult until, like 10 years ago to be to be honest. So

Grace Bonney 1:24:23
I think you're in really good company there. I think almost every single woman I interviewed for this book said like, you don't even know how happy you can be until you get to be a little bit older. Like, you can't really fully appreciate how complicated life is until you've lived just a lot of it. And I think most people are like, man, if you told me at 18 or 20 what I'd be doing it 50 or 60 I would have just laughed you out of the room. But knowing now how that actually feels to be that age like it's a form of wonderful you didn't even know existed and it's also so much harder than you even imagined but you know with age comes the understand I mean that you can take on much harder things than you thought you could,

Scott Benner 1:25:02
some of the stuff that I've overcome, it just keeps, keeps making you feel it even though you're older, you feel more invincible, I can't imagine something that could happen that I couldn't get through at this point. And, and I have to say this too, with a great amount of thanks to, you know, through my middle, the middle of my life, really. So my son is, oh, my God, my son, son was 22. So when he was born, I quit my job. I was a graphic designer at a credit union, and I quit my job to raise my son to stay home. And I had what I think most people would classically consider to be a female experience, raising children. And it absolutely changed me. And I mean, I'll tell you that it was about a year into it. When I started recognizing that there were things that my wife would have just kind of known to do that I struggled to understand. And that somehow by me not understanding it. I was stealing my son's experience and my wife's experience, because she wasn't getting to have it, right. So I was having it. And so now she loses that. And he loses her being with him. And I thought, well, I have to figure out what this all means and be that person. And so now I like the joke, Grace. And I don't think I'm far off. I'm basically too ovary shy of being able to give birth at this point. I'm almost a lady. You'd like I cry when the kids are nice to each other. You don't I mean, like I worry about the things that you would classically imagine that a mom would worry about? And I think it's enriched my life a lot.

Grace Bonney 1:26:38
Yeah, I mean, I think what you just described to me is that you are a human. And I think that you know, gender norms. And again, like large oppressive systems, like patriarchy, and sexism, just make you feel like those things are inherently female or male, but like, No, we are all full human beings with a complex range of emotions. And if we just stop separating genders, or even genders and drag it anyway, but like, if if you would stop separating people by these categories, like we could allow people to fully experience like, all of the complicated things that life has to offer. And I think what you experienced, is really wonderful. And I'm glad you got to have that moment of, you know, connecting with your son, and also connecting with some of your wife's experience. And I hope, ultimately, we will look back and see people doing different roles, and a family is not inherently gendered. But just like, what it takes to raise human beings. It's really hard and really complicated. And it takes people doing a lot of different things.

Scott Benner 1:27:33
You know, it just struck me as you were talking that now there are words for it. And I didn't have them back then. Yeah, socially. But I've been saying for 20 years, that there's no, that tasks aren't gender specific. You know what I mean? it the way I used to put it was like women don't love to vacuum. You don't I mean, and and men aren't thrilled about cutting the lawn. It's just sort of how it ended up, working over and over again. And in. And I didn't see it, when I could let go of the idea that I was doing something that I wasn't supposed to do, and just enjoy being my son's father. And in with the tasks that I had at hand. It's when I was I realized, like, none of this is meaningful at all, but I never attached it to anything, the way it's being spoken about now in culture, honestly. But yeah, it's the same idea. Really? Yeah,

Grace Bonney 1:28:26
we really, in the last 10 years, I think I mean, the last five years, I think have really, the terminology available to understand the human experience has gotten a bit broader, I think it still needs to be even broader. But I think that it, we have gotten options for things that just allow us to like more accurately name, those experiences, because it's so easy to grab, like a gender term or something. It's just related to like what we're told from larger cultural ideas. And when you have more specifics and more variants, you get to like actually describe something in a way that invites people in and I think, like, just connects us all a little bit more. I just, I think when we only have like a couple terms to choose from, you get put in these camps, and you just feel really separate. But especially with parenting, you want that experience to be as integrated as possible with whoever's raising your child or your children. And I'm glad you got to have an experience that gave you a broader range of feelings and tasks and that and your family

Scott Benner 1:29:24
definitely did so. Oh, cool. That's a great place to stop. I'm gonna let you out of this because you didn't think you we're doing this for 90 minutes so I'm sorry. I kept thinking like God she might have something else to do and I'm just holding her up.

Grace Bonney 1:29:36
Oh, you're fine. I'm wrapping Christmas presents.

Scott Benner 1:29:40
incorrectly. I should I be shot I should be shot. Oh god.

Grace Bonney 1:29:44
Oh, no, I only I only did it because I knew I would have exams and things later in the month. And I was like, if I don't do this now I just won't do it at all. And then I'll be that person that just, you know, forgot to do gifts. So

Scott Benner 1:29:56
he was walking around with a book going hey, here's my book.

Grace Bonney 1:29:59
I know I'm not that person I never do.

Scott Benner 1:30:02
It's a very people don't understand you don't give your book to people it feels it's a very

Grace Bonney 1:30:06
Oh yes. It never does not feel never ever, ever. Never.

Scott Benner 1:30:09
I just had somebody asked me to sign my book, which I wrote like, eight years ago, the other day. And I like picked it up. I thought, I haven't done this in a long time. Like I was, I didn't even know what I couldn't find the page. That was clear. I didn't. But it's surprising in my dentist's office.

Grace Bonney 1:30:27
I'd love that. Yeah, it's weird. I had a friend like order a signed copy. And when I was at a bookstore here signing copies, her name popped up, and I was like, Why did you do this? You know, me, I would just give you a book. But that's, you know, it's it's weird to be on that side of it. But it's also what a fun and unexpected feeling like writing a book is a wild process. And I'm glad we both got to experience that. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:30:48
You know, my son told me that during the six months that I took to write a book about being a stay at home dad, I was the worst data you've ever had. I was just like, I just I don't know, I got up in the morning and sat back down again. And just went and went and went. So I really appreciate you doing this. And thanks for having me. This was wonderful. So much. Yeah, of course. Can you hold on one second?

Well, first, let me thank Grace Bonnie for coming on the show. And for being so delightful. Thank you grace, check out her new book, collective wisdom, lessons, inspiration and advice from women over 50. I'd also like to thank Dexcom, makers of the Dexcom G six continuous glucose monitor and Omni pod makers of the Omni pod dash, and the Omni pod promise for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Go to dexcom.com Ford slash juicebox. To learn more about the Dexcom G six and get started today. And to learn more about the Omni pod, go to Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. See if you're eligible for a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash. Now see I hit that perfectly one try. I don't know what happened earlier. I was all discombobulated. That's pretty much it. Thanks so much for listening. I appreciate it very much. When you share the show, leave a great review. Don't forget to join the Facebook page Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. I feel like there's something else I should be telling you. But instead I'm just gonna say thank you. The show grows when you share it. And it's really growing. Just the other day the show had the second most downloaded day in the history of the podcast. It's you know, finishing it seven years. So that's pretty impressive. What else? I don't know. Honestly. This is the part where I just feel like I should be thanking you for 20 minutes. But then it sounds like I don't mean it gets uncomfortable for me to say but I really do appreciate how fervently you listen and share. It means the world to me. I'm super happy that you like the podcast. And super happy is not a way an adult talk. So this is pretty much over. Bye. Oh, I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.