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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Friends, you're listening to Episode 445 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Hey, guess who's back on the show everyone? It's Erica forsyte. You might remember Erika from back in November on episode 407, where she and I spoke about burnout, emotions surrounding diagnosis and dealing with diabetes distress and constructive ways to prevent it from impairing function. Today, Erica is back. And we're gonna focus a little more on supporting the people who are supporting people with type one diabetes. I just loved her the first time she was on, and we decided there were some more topics that we could dig into. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, please always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, please go to my Omni pod.com Ford slash juice box to find out more about the Omni pod and to see if you can get a free no obligation demo sent directly to you. Spoiler alert, you can just go to the site, Miami pod.com Ford slash juicebox. Get that demo out to you today. The show is also sponsored by the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor. You can get started with that Dexcom G six@dexcom.com. forward slash juicebox. There's links in the show notes of your podcast player links at Juicebox Podcast COMM And you can just type the words into our browser. If you can remember them. My on the pot, you could do it. Here's Erica, I really enjoyed when you're on the first time and I thought oh, this would be great. And then you had you know, we were like, well, maybe we can do these other ideas. Oh, this is terrific. And then you kind of like disappeared but it felt very anti your personality sounds like something happened to that person. And then so you had surgery. Do you mind people knowing this?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:38
Oh, no. Well, I it's a another long strike. By the way. I'm using a different headset is our sound okay? You sound good?

Scott Benner 2:48
Yeah, you sound fine to me. Can you hear me?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:50
Okay? Okay. Yeah, I can't. Yes, well, it's, you know, life still happens even when you have diabetes, as you know. And so I've had some knee chronic knee issues, multiple surgeries, and I re injured it. I think shortly after we had our last podcast, and so had to deal with I haven't had surgery yet, but it is coming.

Scott Benner 3:17
I hope it goes well for you.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:20
A full full knee replacement is in my future that just got to figure out the right timing with

Unknown Speaker 3:27
my life.

Scott Benner 3:30
Wow, that's a I've seen some people go through it from a distance recently. And, you know, I think the it's just the way you would expect as far as I know, like the you know, the earlier in life you do it, probably the easier it's gonna go. The beginning is not quite as much fun as the end is. And then when it's over, they're like, Huh, I can't believe how well this works. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:50
yes, yes, that is that is the hope for the you know, the end game.

Scott Benner 3:55
I like how you said, even though you have diabetes, other stuff goes wrong, it really does feel sometimes when you're like something else happened to like, don't we like isn't there a limit to how much you get? And there's not

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:06
you know, it's, it's so true. But yesterday, I was talking with my husband and kind of talking and preparing it for this Ark next conversation and I got a paper cut. It's like, come on, you know, sometimes there's just there's you there's there's the diabetes, and then there's still other issues that could happen to your body physically, emotionally, and then you can get a paper cut and it could like set you over the edge. I mean, thankfully it did it for me yesterday, but I know it has in the past. Yeah. And that's totally normal.

Scott Benner 4:36
I just it's there's that, you know, just when other things happen. You're just like, I feel like everyone should get a certain amount of stuff and I've got my Yes, you know,

Unknown Speaker 4:46
I've got my fair share.

Scott Benner 4:47
If you hit us it's almost like looking at the waiter when they come around with water and you're like, No, no, you just you just got us. Thanks. We're good.

Unknown Speaker 4:55
We're full.

Scott Benner 4:56
Can you keep your problems over there, please. We have our own

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:01
My name is Erica forsyte. I am a type one diabetic, we'll be almost 31 years living with diabetes this summer, I was 12 when I was diagnosed. And I also have a younger brother with type one, but nobody else in my family has been diagnosed with it. I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and I work as a school counselor, but also have a private practice specializing in supporting people of all ages and their caregivers. living with diabetes from diagnosis. Onward, as we know, it doesn't just end or start or end at the point of diagnosis.

Scott Benner 5:52
Let me ask you a question about because this comes up a lot recently, and I don't know the answer. People find therapy online now more than ever, I guess. Yes, it is the the therapist you find need to be in the same state that you live in for insurance reasons.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:08
Yes, you know, and I have had some people reach out from other states as a result of our first podcast, and I'm so grateful for that. I am, I'm in California, and I'm licensed in California, and I'm insured in California. And but now that we're all doing telehealth, it would feel like that would be a really easy and convenient way to meet people people's needs nationwide. But I have I am trying to figure out if there's a way that I can be insured nationwide and or licensed that I don't think that exists quite yet. But that sure would be lovely. Or will California

Scott Benner 6:44
still a pretty big place. So if you're hearing it is today, and you want to reach out to her and you live in California for the moment, how do they get ahold of you?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:53
I have a website. Thank you for asking. It's Erica forsyth.com erkfrsyth.com.

Scott Benner 7:05
Thank you. Listen, I don't think it's any, it won't come to any surprise to people that heard you the first time, I felt like we had a really nice, easy back and forth. You know, as the person who gets to make the judgments on the on the people who come onto the show, I just felt really, you know, we vibe well together. And you really felt like you had a very kind of calm grasp of what you were talking about. And you had a couple of other topics you wanted to hit up. So you're back to do more. Can we start with supporting caregivers who have people?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:36
Yes, I was thinking that we could do that first. Because as I you know, meet with different clients, families, you know, caregivers are often reaching out to me for either support for themselves, but usually, you know how to support their children living with it, but often I find that, you know, caregivers need their own individual support, as well. And I think there's the larger group of, you know, being a caregiver of someone with type one. But then I think there's even smaller subgroups within that category of parents who have who have children are diagnosed in infancy, or in elementary age years. And then there's the parents who have children who are diagnosed in their teen years, which we can talk about, because that's a whole kind of beast in and of itself. And then kind of the aging out right, from Teen to early adulthood. So yes, I mean, I think we definitely could start with you know, how to think about living as a caregiver. With with this diagnosis,

Scott Benner 8:43
I've been corresponding with somebody who's obviously information, I'll keep private for like a year now. And they're the parent of a teen. And things were, you know, the, the team wasn't taking it all that seriously, at least not as seriously as the parent was taking it. And that parent told me that eventually, they had to seek out like therapy for themselves. And then it came to a head and, and this person, just one time one, I just eventually just couldn't take it anymore and said to the kid, like, you know, diabetes is gonna kill me before it kills you. And I wonder how, how common that feeling is because it felt like I could understand what she was saying in the email. So what is the difference between being dying having your child diagnosed at a younger age versus other ages?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:39
Well, I think the the first kind of the answer would be well, in terms of how much control and authority you have over your child and just developmentally, where your child is, are they able to, are they completely dependent on you, as you know, as obviously an infant your younger child that they are unable to eat? They're manage their diabetes care from you know, whether you're doing finger pricks or CGM management, wearing a pump or not. If your child is younger, I would say, you know, this is rough guesstimate around maybe eight, or younger, or maybe even seven or eight or younger than you are probably managing it as the primary caregiver completely. From whether that includes, you know, reordering the supplies and changing out the sights, as well as the day to day, you know, management. And then as you're getting into maybe early as Elementary, or older, I guess, like nine, I would say to 12, eight or nine to 12, maybe they're taking on more or showing some levels of interest and wanting to be independent in some areas, whether it's checking their own blood sugar, or having a discussion with you around carbs. And then obviously, into, you know, preteen and teen where just naturally they are wanting to be more autonomous, more independent. And if you take remove diabetes, from the equation, they're, you know, just teenage years, they're wanting to make their own choices, feel that sense of independence. And then there's that pushback, right with teenage years of if they are showing signs of wanting to rebel, then that often translates into I don't want to take care of my diabetes, or I want to fit in, you know, in preteen teenage years, children are wanting to fit in with their peers be like their peers do with their peers can do. And as we know, you can do that to a certain extent, with diabetes. But oftentimes, it might look like ignoring like, I'm going to have this baggage check chips or this candy bar at the movies with my friends. I don't want to have to either leave to inject or take my blood sugar or pull out my pump, it's going to make all these lights or look at my CGM. So I'm just going to ignore that because I want to fit in. So this is kind of just as a summary, I'd say of what it might look like, as the child with diabetes, but then also, how do you how do you manage that, as the caregiver is challenging on different levels? And

Scott Benner 12:16
how does it impact you to as the as a person, just, you know, I say all the time, and nobody. It's interesting, isn't it? Like, if you look at the world as a whole, the likelihood of you being born living and dying without having some sort of a medical issue is almost completely uncommon like it, you know, and that happens to very few people. But no one makes a baby and thinks, hey, I bet you when you know, let's do this baby thing, and I bet you when it's three, its pancreas will stop working. And then we'll just take care of that or when it's 12, or I bet you when it's 20, its thyroid won't work anymore, or you like you, you have no preparation for that whatsoever. And we see it as uncommon and burdensome, when maybe we really should think of it is expected to some level, you know, some something happening should be expected, but it's not how you feel. So is that different? When a child's younger? Do you get that feeling of like you didn't get what you were promised?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 13:16
Oh, yeah, that's a great question. I, I from I mean, I think from just speaking from also my parents perspective, having two children, you know, diagnosed when they were older, but then from from clients that I work with, there's that I think that immediate sense of loss, right? Because maybe when it's if you're a slightly older, say eight or 10, you have some of those like prime years of, of, quote, enjoyment, right without having to think about this extra layer of management. And so I would say, yeah, that's definitely, gosh, we're out of the gates that my child's one or two, and he's barely talking or walking, and now we have to deal with this extra layer. And so I'd say probably even a stronger, maybe shock, grief loss. And, you know, all the all of the emotions of grief. Yeah,

Scott Benner 14:12
on top of that, I expect that the you start prognosticating that there's going to be some sort of a loss for the child in the future. You know, the funny thing is, too, if you understand how to manage your diabetes reasonably, I don't think there's that much of a loss. You know, you mean like you're a person who has diabetes, there's things you have to do, it's obviously sucks. And it's but if you could take a long look at it, and I guess I'm in a unique perspective, where I've spoken to so many people at every age, you know, right into their 60s. That what I would tell you is that overall that yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's a coin flip or not like if you're just the kind of person who does well with you know, stuff that comes up or you're not but most people deal okay with it when they don't do well. It's because It generally ends up being because they've been given very bad tools or bad support, or something like that. But the people who, you know, learned how to use their insulin or figured out how to eat that worked for their lifestyle, had somebody helping them along the way, those people generally live full lives, you know, like, we don't, we're not in that part of diabetes anymore, where people just die when they're 40. Because they have type one in less, you know, something significantly lacking in their in their care, or, you know, I mean, let's just say like they're some people just hit the genetic, you know, dumpster fire lottery, and then that obviously can happen. So if I'm a parent, I come into you and I say, hey, I've got my little one year old, two year old 567 year old has diabetes, they're completely dependent on me. And I can't take it. Like, how do you how do you help a parent in that situation?

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Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:57
Well, first of all, I think it's if we were pulled back A little bit like when you diabetes diagnosed, this inserts itself into, you know, quote, pre existing conditions. And I know we think about that like as a medical term, but you as a family unit or if you're a single parent, single caregiver, you there are already issues going on in your life, right. There might be marital stressors, there might be job or financial stressors, it might you might be diagnosed in the middle of a pandemic, there might be other concerns with if you have other children, the sibling dynamics, you might have either really successful solid, healthy family communication patterns or or not. And so, upon diagnosis, all of those things that have been with you either individually as a person in your own health journey, as well as your family, are still there, right upon a diagnosis. And so sometimes we would like to think that, that Oh, my gosh, my child is diagnosed. And now all of my other, you know, challenges or concerns are gonna fall to the wayside, but they don't, and they creep back in, immediately upon diagnosis, maybe all of the focus is on there, and you're surviving out of adrenalin and shock. And you're pouring all of your resources and time and energy into that into your child. But slowly, all of those other, you know, quote, pre existing conditions or challenges that you have been dealing with kind of reemerge. And I think that, you know, as a caregiver, your child does look to you, and how to respond to this diagnosis. And, and it's okay, if you're struggling, right, because your child may take it all in stride, I mean, it particularly mean a one or two year old, the child doesn't really know essentially, what's happening, and that's going to that child is that's going to be normal as the child grows up, right. For an older child, they might not think it's anything different. They might have seen other friends with CGM on their arms, or you know that the stigma around all of that is definitely thankfully going down. And the hardest part might be coming to terms with your own feelings about it as a caregiver, about, you know, thinking, gosh, what does this mean for my child is my child going to not be able to do all of the things that I had envisioned? for them? I think I shared you know, thankfully, things have changed dramatically in 30 years. But when I was diagnosed, the doctors told my parents like, she might not be able to play sports, and I ended up playing collegiate volleyball, she might not be able to have children. And so there, I think there was a time when there was that sense of loss and despair for your child that you were grieving for them. And for yourself as the parent, thankfully, the messaging and the data has shifted. I have had two healthy children. And I was able to do those things. And because of now all of the new, you know, the new science and the new products on the market, you can even live a healthier life than I did 30 years ago, as a child, and preteen and teen. So anyway, go back to your question, parent comes in there one or two year old has been diagnosed, I would first allow them the space to grieve like what, what are they they probably are having that sense of loss, I had expectations of having a healthy child that might not live in it and Wiggins as we know, you can be healthy with type one. But without living with a chronic illness, they might have to deal with and have questions about what are some myths that they've heard? Right? Is my child going to be blind? Are they going to lose a limb are they not going to be able to do X, Y, or Z. So dispelling some myths might be something that we would do. And so just give first, initially, just giving them some space to grieve.

Scott Benner 24:07
I see, I see online when people just want to see an athlete, a professional athlete who has type one diabetes, because that seems like the gold standard of moving around, and they're doing it so good. That's a great feeling. I if that person could do it, then somebody else could do it. It does seem to be a lot of fact finding and, you know, backing up your fears with stuff that makes that alleviates them or tries to support problems you're having. But what happens if you're if you're the adult, and you're a person who just doesn't have any more bandwidth, or their coping skills, aren't, you know, gonna gonna lend to this situation? Do you just pick something in your life and, and eliminate it like do you or do you just go okay, I used to, I don't know, I used to sew purses in my spare time, but I don't do that anymore. You know, like Do you like what happens when the cap when you're full all the way to the cap? And then something like this comes in? I mean, what what do people do to find that space? They need to wrap their heads around this because it takes a long time to figure out diabetes?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:15
It does. Yeah, I think that that's an excellent point two, is that it it acknowledging that I might not understand how to how to manage my child's diabetes initially. And so you're dealing with your own personal grief, if that's, you know, the case about what it means for your child to have diabetes. And then you're probably feeling isolated. Because as as we know, it's, you know, it's, it's very rare. And I think that's part of the reason why, you know, type one, community is so tight knit, and probably most chronic illness communities are very tight knit, because you don't really understand it unless you're either living with the type one or you're caregiving for someone. And so I think, acknowledging that, I'm feeling isolated, I'm feeling distressed, I'm feeling anxious about what this means. Obviously, reaching out for support, whether it's one on one, therapy, listening to, you know, your podcast, finding support groups in your community. And if they aren't, they're asking your your child's doctor for that you creating your own, I think being in a support group, as a caregiver is really important. If you are struggling, and feeling like Gosh, I have no more bandwidth, I've reached my limit in terms of providing care for my child. That is signaling that you are in distress. Yep. Whether it's your own personal distress, including dealing with the diabetes distress. And it's exhausting. And so I think reaching out and finding the support, one on one, listening to other podcasts, and finding support groups for you, not just for your child is really, really important.

Scott Benner 27:16
Yeah, it gets you to that spot where I don't know what psychologically it does for you to accept something. But it stops so much inner turmoil. That just I'm not saying giving yourself over to it, maybe is the wrong way to say it. But just the idea of Nikki's, you'll see people forever, like, well, there must be a cure for this. And they'll they'll, they'll just drive themselves crazy looking for it as if there was a cure for type one diabetes. And the 1.8 million people living with it are unaware of it. But the newly diagnosed person, it's like, no, obviously it exists. It's just that feeling of like putting off the inevitable, which is accepting that this is happening. But there's such a calm that comes after the acceptance.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:56
Yes, yes. And and I think it's hard to know what comes first. Like, if you are feeling confident and competent in managing your child's diabetes, then maybe the acceptance comes after that. Or maybe the acceptance comes, okay, this is this is what we have in our life, we are not going to let this stop us from doing the achieving the goals we want for our family and for our child. We are going to accept this and we're going to put our head down and we're going to figure this out together. And then that calmness and acceptance that may then lead to the finding finding what you need to get your diabetes, your child's diabetes management, and you know, getting into stride with it, I guess. Yeah. And I don't know if one has to come before the other. But I think I totally agree that the acceptance piece is pivotal. And it you might be you might accept it right in it as the get go. You might just be someone who could handle kind of this this trauma. I know we talked about that in our other our first episode. That kind of the Trump traumatic experience that a diagnosis brings, but and then you might accept it and you might be working well with your child and your child's care team. And then you there might be another transition like such as puberty or the child's sick. And you might hit a bump in the road and you might experience some Distress and that's okay. It's not like okay, we're, we've accepted it, we're good, we're managing it. We know how to deal with this, and we're good to go. So to be gracious to yourself and your child that there will there will be a will and you'll ebb and flow in terms of your acceptance in you know, in your relationship with diabetes.

Scott Benner 29:49
It's fascinating as your kids get older. It's like you're an employer and you have to hire the right person for a job. And you know, like you said in the beginning the kids are It's all on you, right? So the kids aren't involved and they hit those years, but they're like, well, I might want to help a little bit, then you look at them, you're like, why would I hire a 12 year old to take care of my son, you know, like, I know you are you but but you're not the right person to be making these decisions, then people have that fight where they don't want to hand it off, I have to admit that I don't, you know, I'm happy to give over pardons, you know, management to her slowly. But I was never in a position where I thought, I'm happy to trade her five, five, a one C for an eight a one c while she's figuring this out for the next two years. So that that wasn't a trade I was willing to make. But it's just tough because you look down and you're like, well, this isn't the person who should be in charge of this, the kids 14 doesn't know anything, he can barely remember which ways up he just wants to play PlayStation, like that kind of stuff, which then translates into when they're teens. And it's even worse, because now they actually they think they know something they don't even doubt themselves anymore, which is fascinating, you know. And then there you are in that situation, where some people run into where their kids don't doubt themselves don't understand how to manage their blood sugar's quite as well. And now they're creating what could potentially be dangerous situations, either for themselves short term or long term, and you as the parent are set back and going, I can't let this happen. It's such a stressful, a stressful thing to see a thing that you can fix that's impacting your child, the thing you probably love most in the whole world. And then you can't impact it because they're the blockade to you impacting it. It's a weird dynamic, where they are both the person the the, the focus of your love and concern, and the end the problem. At the same time, like the reason you can't get to that love and concern. I don't I didn't mean problem, but they're almost like the roadblock and the destination, if that makes sense.

Unknown Speaker 31:51
Mm hmm.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:51
Okay. Yes. And I think there's a reason why I often I'd say the majority of families that I work with are the kind of the newly diagnosed families within, you know, one month two, you know, six to 12 months. And, and then parents and with teens, because those are probably the more challenging seasons. And, yes, I mean, I think it's going to happen, right teens are going to want to rebel to a certain extent or fine, as we said that autonomy or independence, and yet, you know, we research has shown that positive, there are positive results from parents continue to be involved somehow in your child's diabetes management during the adolescent years. Yeah, and one of my mentors used to say, like, gosh, wouldn't it be great if you could just saran wrap the diabetes, part of their lives as teams with within their relationship with their parents, just to protect that, like, let them go do whatever else they've had to do as a teenager, but can we just somehow protect that aspect of their lives, because it does happen where teens either want to deny it, or don't want to manage it, or want to manage it themselves. And then there's consistent, you know, 300 words, and they think they're doing a good job, or they don't want to show the numbers. And I lived that for a period of time, myself. And the ultimate, I mean, I feel like if you are a parent with a teenager at this point, and you're experiencing this friction, and this conflict of a teenager saying, I don't want you to deal with this, I'm going to do this by myself. I mean, I think I know you, you have set up a different relationship with your daughter. And I think it would be wonderful. I know you just had a gallon I just listened to who was was a teenager. And now I think she's 18 who took it on herself and is managing just great and has been very independent and wanting to maintain those healthy habits. I would say sitting down with your with your teen and say okay, in this this category of your life, your diabetes, we are still going to whether I mean it's also different right with the with the CGM where you could look at on your app to see what your child's numbers are. If they aren't if they refuse to wear CGM, and that happens, then it's finding out okay, we are going to look at your meter once a week or once you know, at the end of the day, but you get to have control and agency in your life in these categories. And finding out what it what does that mean for them daily, they're going to want to have sleepovers. They're gonna want to do after school sports. I mean, a lot of this stuff isn't relevant at the moment given the pandemic but that obviously, hopefully that'll normal like normalcy will return there. I want to go to birthday parties or parties and general parties and finding out how can we protect this aspect of their life and come to some sort of agreements, but also giving them the opportunity to feel like they have control and agency in their life in other aspects that you both agree on that, you know, there's a compromise there,

Scott Benner 35:21
I think you have to understand that in every interpersonal relationship, there is a line that you cannot push the other person over. Because if you do, there's just no coming back from it for some reason where it's difficult to get back from it. So. So I'm constantly thinking with my children, like I'm balancing, doing what's right for them with teaching them how to manage for themselves without pushing them away, which I guess would be a nice old fashioned way of saying what I just said, because once they're away, that's the whatever they leave with that day. And you don't want them to leave in an adversarial thing. Like, I want my kids to walk out the door with a bag over their shoulder thinking, I can't believe I'm moving out, like, that's what I'm looking for. Right? Not like, hey, go to hell, I'm out of here. And so you know, and so when that happens when you when you split that day, however it happens, you've taken them about as far as you get to take them. And then and so if they're gone too soon, then they're a bird falling out of a nest that can't fly yet. And, and that doesn't stop them from leaving, you know. So I just think that there's a way to move slowly towards that stuff. And you have to be able to look up on some law, see that your kids like rubbing up against something. And without letting them feel like they're in control, you know what I mean? Like there's a power struggle to with parenting, to kind of let go of all of it, you know, without letting them feel like they're pushing you around, you have to almost quietly back off in your mind, like, I have something else to say, This is not the time to say it. I'll wait for another opportunity. I just, um, I believe in that. And hopefully, it's going to help me my son's 20. And it looks like he has hashimotos out of nowhere, all of a sudden in the last couple

Unknown Speaker 37:05
months.

Scott Benner 37:06
And it's impacting him. And we're trying to get all of his levels together and help him out. And one of the things we've done is we've gotten his his vitamin D level up, and his iron level up. And so the other night, I said, Hey, did you remember your vitamins, which has been great about so far, and he's just frustrated, because some of the side effects of this haven't gone away yet. And he's like, they don't they don't help anything. And I was like, no, it took us two and a half months to get your vitamin D and your iron off. They help. And he got he broke the little bit. And what I was gonna say next was Yo man, you know, if you do one setup today, that doesn't give you a six pack. And six months from now, when you have a six pack. It's because you did the sit ups every day on the way to it. And now that you have it, if you want to keep it, you need to keep doing it. This is what I was gonna say to him. And instead I just went Yeah, that's cool. We'll talk about it later. And because I just was like, This is it, if I push him here, I'm going to lose him on this topic. And I and I can't afford to lose him on this topic. So yes, yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:05
yes. So knowing, knowing your the kind of the boundaries of when to push, and how far. And I and I think you also touched on, you know, as a teen, it's you there's instant gratification that they want and need. And it's so challenging to think about the long term complications implications of poor management. And so every day, it's, you know, yeah, I want this candy bar with my friends, and I don't feel like bolusing or injecting for it. And you're not, they're not sitting there thinking, Well, you know, if I keep doing this every day, for the next two years, I might have complications. And and I think just as you clearly exemplified, sometimes reminding them of that isn't necessarily, it's not the right way

Scott Benner 38:55
to go. No. Yeah. And we, when they're little with, you know, to bring it back to diabetes, when they're little and you mess up a Bolus, their blood sugar goes up. Well, you work really hard to get it down, you hug them you do all the things you do, you know, when they're eight, nine, or you know, when they get into that 1213. And you do it again now, like, oh, they're sitting on the bench, they can't play because they're dizzy. All these things hit you as failure as the parent, like, you're like, Oh, I messed this up, I'm gonna kill them. I'm the reason they're not going to enjoy soccer, you know, like, whatever it ends up being. And then all of a sudden, when they're older. It's interesting, because it, they're, it's the first time that they can turn it back on you. It's like when they realize you're not perfect. You don't mean which happens in every parental relationship. The One day, the guy wakes up and goes, Oh, this guy doesn't know everything, does he? You know, and then God forbid you're wrong, or you get into your late 40s. And you have like a moment where you can't think of a word. They're just It's like watching a lion go after a gazelle with a broken leg. I see my kids look at me like like, Oh, he's not perfect. Now's our chance. Yeah, right. Right. But all of a sudden, you're trying to do the right thing. And maybe, and for a lot of people, you don't know what the right thing is, you don't know what the tools are, you don't know how to manage your insulin, right, you're just trying your best. And over and over again, it's, it's not going well, and your kids start to think she doesn't understand this diabetes at all. And I don't understand it. So we're screwed. And that's and then that can you can get to that spot. And that's why I'm just such a huge proponent of understanding how insulin works. Because it gives you It gives you a chance in all these things. And again, it gives you a chance to have some free time where blood sugar's aren't always bouncing around and you might actually be able to think about paying your electric bill or going for a walk or doing one of the things that's gonna keep you sane or balanced.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:47
Yes, yes. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Not not responding. You're not responding to the roller coaster. You just know, okay, where we are as stable as possible. I'm doing the best I can. And now I can go take care of myself.

Unknown Speaker 40:58
100% Yes. Have you

Scott Benner 41:00
ever seen the movie? 1917?

Unknown Speaker 41:02
No, no. Okay. So

Scott Benner 41:03
in a nutshell, it kind of doesn't matter. I think it's like World War One. And, and there's like, there's like a, you know, it's a road movie. But in a war guys got to get from one place on foot to another place. It's just adrenaline the whole time. And sometimes that's what being a parent of somebody who has a chronic illness feels like to me, like, somebody just came into my life, one day, I was just there doing my thing. And they were like, hey, you're on a foot race now to the end. And you have to run constantly. Because if you stop, something's going to kill you. Like, you just have to keep going. And there is going every time the scene changes, something different is going to be there that feels like it's trying to get you and you have to run around it jump over or kill it and keep going. And that just is how diabetes feels to me like I remember having the conscious thought that my job is to get my daughter to the longest healthiest life possible. And I never thought about having kids that way prior to the day she had diabetes. Hmm. You know, and,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:04
and that is an exhausting narrative to live with, particularly if you are not feeling like you're you have a sense of, you know, competency around it, or competence, you know, and how to manage it. Yes, right.

Scott Benner 42:18
Right. And so at some point, I worked out the things I worked out, which then lessen that feeling. And it's, it's become less and less and less over time, to where I still feel like that's my goal. But I no longer feel like I'm running through 1917, Germany for my life anymore. And, and, and I really do, I really do believe that partly, that's community that did that. For me. I think it's part it's a big part, just understanding how insulin works, because then you start getting what you expect. And there's not that like, theoretical stress, like you almost like put insulin and then start wondering if you did it wrong. And then, and when that happens three times a day, you're 24 hours a day believing you've messed something up, and you're always living in that anger, you know, and then if you're married, one of the parents likely has a firmer grasp on diabetes and the other which can help, which makes you resent the other person for not helping you. And, you know, oh, it's just there's so much going on. But you're what you're saying is, is that if you're a parent of a child with type one, at any age, you really need a place to go no matter where it is, to feel normal to hear some other people who are doing, okay, who may be a little ahead of you on the journey, a place where you can rant and rave and scream if you need to, and then kind of come back out and reset, and give yourself What did you call it? Grace?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:42
Yeah, Grace and grace and space to, you know, do what you need to do. And if you are the primary caregiver, and I know that that works for a lot of families. Because there's not that confusion that I think you shared recently on a podcast that, you know, you went to the store, and you just assumed that that someone else would be watching or managing or helping blood sugars. But I think there that assumption is also exhausting. And so I think if you're the primary caregiver, and you are feeling all of those things that we've talked about the burnout, the isolation, the guilt, or shame around, I don't know what I'm doing or if I made a mistake, to realize that you're not alone. And to get reach out if you if you don't have if you don't know anybody in your circle. I think that's to reach out to your to your child's doctor to say, Are there other parents, you know, with children around my age, my children, my children's age, that we can connect with because they know they have the data. Because the isolation piece I think is big, and then you isolation can make you feel like Not only that, you're alone, or that if then that, then your thoughts can like I'm doing it wrong, and I'm a bad parent. And that just kind of can, you can dig a hole really quickly with them when you're feeling alone. And that could happen to your

Scott Benner 45:12
kids too. And that one of the Yes, it's funny when people come on the show, and they've heard the show. And it's not everybody, but it's, I used to think it was really heavily like, towards the people were like, Oh, my God, I learned how to use insulin that's been so valuable for me, because I see that as the most valuable piece of the podcast, yes, but it's not true. What I hear most from people is, I never knew another person with diabetes, this show gives me a sense of community, all those things, you just said, it ends up being so much more important to the person who lives with the diabetes, then you might understand like, like, when a parent looks for community, they might look for support, advice, you know, that kind of stuff, pat on the back kind of stuff. But when a person with type one looks for community, the community they want is similar but not the same. It's what they need is to just not feel isolated, just like you said, and it's such a bigger piece then apparent not feeling isolated. I don't know why I think that I don't think I have that thought completely fleshed out yet. But community means different things, depending on what side of the syringe you're on, I guess.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:26
And I think that, yeah, the community piece, yes, for the, the person with the diabetes to know they're not alone. They're not this, you know, strange person and to hear tips and tricks, but then again, in the caregiving piece, to also feel either encouraged or acknowledged and to decrease that isolation. But also just a place. I mean, there, if you can't find a caregiver group, specifically for type one, there are just general caregiver support groups out there that might bring together a variety of people cannot caregiving for their spouse with cancer, or whatever the chronic illness might be, just to have that sense of community to know you're not alone in a lot of those similar emotions and triggers that you might be feeling as the caregiver. So my

Scott Benner 47:15
last question I have, yeah, one last question on this is, that's, that's all great for people who are willing to do that. Yeah. You know, like, when I talk about how people eat on the show, I always say, like, Look, it's probably easier to have diabetes and eat very low carb, but most people aren't going to do that. So let's teach them how to use their insulin so they can live the life that they want to live. And similarly, I think therapy is a great idea. But a lot of people don't do it. A lot of people drink instead, or walk out back and cut down the tree with a chainsaw and cut it up a little tiny pieces, then kick it around, or what what do people do who aren't going to seek out community that aren't going to go for therapy? Or I mean, I have to be honest, that little breathing thing on the apple on the iPhone is like deep breathing really is relaxing. But what what can people do so they don't slip off and, and become a caricature of a of a sad person?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 48:10
Yes, well, I think, oftentimes, you might not even realize it as a caregiver that you are experiencing burnout. Oftentimes, I hear someone who might come in to my office, and they'll say, Well, you know, what, my spouse noticed that I was talking about how tired I was, or how I wasn't, I wasn't doing the things I used to do that I really enjoyed, or I am feeling helpless. And I'm talking about that. Or maybe Yeah, maybe I'm drinking more coffee or drinking more wine or I'm not. I'm withdrawing from my friends and family, and I didn't And oftentimes, you might not even realize that that has happened. And so it sometimes takes someone on the outside to kind of reflect back in the caring, loving way. Maybe it's time for you to get help. But if you aren't, if you aren't at the point of being able to reach out because that does happen. Yes, obviously deep breathing, to do the things try and reflect back on. Okay, what was one thing that I used to do that I enjoyed before my child was diagnosed, whether that was I used to go on walks every morning, or I used to do the certain activity. So I think reflecting if you're at that point where you feel like your hands are in the air, you are exhausted, and you don't even have the energy or desire to to go to a support group or to meet with a therapist, to think back. Hey, what did I used to do, pre diagnosis that I enjoyed, and slowly maybe integrating that asking for a break for an afternoon or once a day or yet once a day or once a week from being the primary caregiver and doing that thing, whether it's exercise or deep breathing or meditation Or meeting up with a friend?

Scott Benner 50:03
Can I share two things?

Unknown Speaker 50:04
That's where I would start? Yeah, please.

Scott Benner 50:06
So one of these is embarrassing. I'm gonna start with one. That's not embarrassing. How's that sound? So during the pandemic, I've taught myself to make barbecue, to make pizza from like the dough to the scratch to How To Cook it like a real like Neapolitan. Because I just have this time, I don't know what to do it. And then at Christmas, Kelly gave me a drone. It's this little thing. It's a very small one. It's not, it's not very expensive at all. But I found that, first of all, I was scared of it. Like my I was scared to use it. It's something I've talked about for years, like I want to try to fly a drone one day, that's all I said. But it turns out that my spatial awareness is what I was scared of, I was afraid that what would happen when I was pointing one way, and the drone was going another way that I wouldn't have the coordination to deal with that. And so I practice in an open field, you know, and what I've learned over the last couple of weeks is that once the drones up in the air, and it's moving, it's the only thing I'm able to think about where the drone will crash on the ground. And there's an I never been a person to stop thinking about other things. And so just one thing that was not life or death to anyone, right, has really changed. And I will find myself running outside in the middle of the afternoon when I have an hour just to put that thing in the air for five minutes. Just because I come away with some sort of a relaxed feeling when it's over.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:35
Well, and it's something that you are completely in control of that.

Scott Benner 51:42
Well, well Also, it also gave me this idea, like if it cuz it can go up in the air. And your first thing is like, what if I What if it crashes, and you actually have to let go of that to do it. It's almost like not being afraid of insulin anymore. Like, you know, like, Oh, I Bolus and it goes up. And I know I should use more. But I'm afraid until you just go hell, I'm going to use the amount of needs, until you say to yourself, if this thing falls out of the sky. That's the price of doing business if I want to fly a drone, and so once you let go of it, it's completely free. Now my other thing, and I don't know how many people will take me up on this. But when I'm completely alone, which I used to find myself a lot, and I don't much anymore, I guess we most of us don't feel it anymore. When I have a problem, I talk it out in my head. But there are times that I feel I don't realize it and I'm thinking of something in my head. And then all of a sudden I'm alone in my house and I'm talking about it out loud. And I've come to realize that it's nothing different than sitting down in front of a microphone to make a podcast where there's no guest. And I just I find it easier to talk through things if I can hear it almost like at the end of when I after I wrote my book, it was supposed to be turned in on a certain day. And I remember sending the publisher, a note and saying just get like, Can I have it for one extra day? Before I give it to you. And the last thing I did was read it out loud to myself. Because for some reason. hearing it in my head and hearing it out loud were two different things. And I don't know if that's valuable or not, or if I'm crazy, but those two things helped me like focusing on something it's not my life for a little while giving yourself over to that and sometimes I talk to myself when I'm but not to myself. Um, I don't know how to put it. I'm not talking

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:27
about your verbally processing out loud.

Scott Benner 53:29
Yes, I'm not going Hey, Scott, and Scott's not answering in a slightly different voice. Not happening like that. It's almost like I'm explaining something to someone who's not there.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:39
Yes, and hearing yourself, say it out loud. Probably achieves a lot of things. But it could be common you're releasing or getting an out of your brain and out saying I made a similar exercise would be you know, writing it down journaling to get whatever that is out onto paper, then you can see it. And maybe for some like sounds like for yourself, it's helpful to for you to say it out loud. And then to hear it.

Scott Benner 54:06
Yeah. Do you know how often this happens to me in the middle of it? I think, gosh, I was wrong about that. Like you can actually you just think something you held like so dear. And then you're like, I'm not right about that. Dammit. And I don't know, it just that's what works for me. But I just want people to do something for themselves. Because your kid getting diabetes can't just be the start of your life or death run across World War One. And then when you get to the end, somebody pat you on the gas and goes, Wow, good job, and then you drop over dead because you just use the last 60 years doing it. I just you know, it can't be like that.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:40
And yes, and I would add you know, and I'm so grateful that you shared what those two things that worked for you. I think oftentimes caregivers might feel like if they take a break from caregiving, something's going to happen to their child. And that this this fear of like responsibility and guilts around, what if what if I leave the house for 30 minutes? Is my child going to have a seizure or he's going to go really high and the chances are probably not. But even so that I think they're going to be okay for that short amount of time. And it doesn't have to be a long break. I think finding those windows of time like for you, you had an hour to run out and do the drone, it could be 10 minutes to say, you know what, I'm gonna go do my 10 minute walk around the block. But finding those moments to take care of yourself to step away from the diabetes is really, really crucial. Yeah,

Scott Benner 55:35
I want to say that take it from me, I was the person who used to think I didn't like sleeps not as important for me, I thought after Arden got diabetes, it all of this will catch up to you at some point, if you don't take care of it, it won't, we're not going to escape through like, don't be the person who's like smoking, that doesn't give me lung cancer, it gives everybody lung cancer eventually. So you're like, you know, you're not the special one who doesn't need to sleep eight hours or, you know, can can operate a nine pots of coffee for the rest of their life. It just doesn't work that way. You have to find the balance, you know, do you agree?

Unknown Speaker 56:10
Absolutely. Yes, you might feel sorry, go ahead.

Scott Benner 56:15
I know, I'm sorry. You finished now. So I was gonna say,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 56:18
oh, say I agree. Because it but the initial stages, there is that fear of I can't I can't leave my child. And and maybe that feels like in in the first couple months? That might feel true and is true. But to realize that yeah, that is not sustainable. And to involve other people as needed.

Scott Benner 56:40
No, no, yeah. In the beginning of the Apocalypse, we're all running and screaming. But it's Yeah, point you got to find a building to hide into and let the zombies walk around outside while you chill out. That's all. It's very simple. Now, here's the bigger problem, you came on to talk about two things in the hour that we booked. And now 15 minutes later, we're on to the second. So what do we do?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:00
You know, we we while we were I tried to integrate a little bit, you know, we were also talking about just, you know, teenage years. And I feel like we integrated that a little bit into our conversation. But if we want to dive deeper, perhaps we can do that another time. Or if there are questions that come up from your audience, specifically and other topics, we could do that too.

Scott Benner 57:22
Well, I am all for having you back on. So if you're up for it, I'm up for it. It's just you. You're like my, you're like my emotional Jenny. Like to me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:37
Well, thank you, I that's a nice compliment. Yeah, I enjoy being here and chatting with you. And hopefully, you know, helping those who are out there listening, and I'd love to be back. Seriously, I want to

Scott Benner 57:48
wish you a ton of success with your knee surgery. I know you don't know when you're doing it yet. But if you ever want to do a podcast on painkillers, you let me know. Okay. Because I wouldn't be like,

Unknown Speaker 58:00
oh, that would be interesting.

Unknown Speaker 58:03
What should a family do? They should shut up?

Unknown Speaker 58:08
No,

Scott Benner 58:08
not even under drugs? Would you say that? Give me your web address again.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:15
Erica foresight.com.

Scott Benner 58:18
And for now you need to be in California if you want to talk with Erica. But yes, through this pandemic, I've just spoken to too many people who are struggling in ways that a lot of us can imagine. And that for each one of them speaking to somebody has been what's helped them so far. You know, there's just no shaman. I mean, you wouldn't you wouldn't break your arm and go I'm not gonna go to a doctor this will probably heal on its own. You know, like if you if you have a problem that you can't deal with on your own, go to a person who can help you deal with it, because it's just, it just when it goes wrong for somebody like psycho when psychological issues go wrong for somebody, they go, they can go really you can just get lost. And like a spiral. Yeah, what I there's a couple of people I'm thinking of that I've spoken to I don't even know how they got back again. It's it's a triumph to get back again. And the truth is they all did it with support of one or multiple people that helped them along.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 59:21
Yes, yeah. I mean, that's and that's really the goal of therapy for you know, from my perspective is restoring that hope, you know, and and, and healing and growth that can occur in an individual and family system, otherwise I wouldn't be doing what I do.

Scott Benner 59:38
Yeah. Well, I appreciate that you that you're doing this one day, you know, a year from now, I'll actually talk to you about your diabetes like you're just like, like you don't know anything about this other stuff. I just said it the Jenny the other day. I said one day we should like interview you like you're a person and not like Jenny a CD and she's like, I am a person and I was like yeah, what can I do that one day and she's like, okay, so um,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:00
Yeah, happy happy to do that too. Because Yeah, I'm also i'm also live in Buckhead, and I understand very much all the challenges. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:10
Before I let you go, yes. Is it important for someone? Or not important? What's the How do I want to ask this? Is it? Is it extra value that value added for my therapist to have type one? If I'm in there talking about type one? Or do you think that a therapist that doesn't have it can do it justice? Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:00:29
you know, I think and there they are, there's trainings, you know, the a DA and APA did trainings for therapists who are specializing and working with, with families with type one. So I think they can provide certainly, you know, expert advice and professional and psychological support. I know that particularly with, with teens, it brings I can validate what they are going through, and they can they understand that I really get it. And so I think that's an extra value add for me just personally working with particularly the teenage population, which was different from maybe someone to say, like, gosh, I really, you know, I don't get what you're going through, but I know it's hard. Yeah. But I think, yes, I certainly there are therapists out there who are excellent, who are trained well, who can provide the support you need who do not have type one, but it can it can help with certain populations. And for people who

Scott Benner 1:01:27
do try therapy, and like my son, they're like, why don't you take the vitamin D every day or every other day? or whatever? Like, how much time do you give it before it builds up some efficacy for you? Like, you can't just go into one session and be like, that's it, I should feel differently, right? And how long until you know, if this therapist that you chose isn't right for you, like, What's that, that soaking in period? Like in the beginning?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:01:52
That's a great question. And I often tell my clients, you know, it, it has to be a great fit for both parties. And usually, I often suggest or encourage them to give it a go at least two times, two sessions, and to see how, because when Usually, the first session has maybe a lot of nerves and just kind of general overview of what their B looks like and feels like. So it's a by two or two, if not, by three sessions, you aren't feeling like your therapist is either meeting our needs are understanding your goals, then it's okay to to move on. And in terms of experiencing efficacy, or some change, or hope that there's going to be change, I often suggest 10, roughly, you know, 10 sessions three months to not only work on building the rapport and trust and identify and then identifying the goals, where do we want to go? What's our hope? And then at the kind of approximate three to four month mark, to take a pause and evaluate, Okay, are we are we going in the right direction? Are you feeling like your needs are being met? These are questions I'd be asking my client. And then by then by the three to 10, six, six month mark, I would hope that my client is is experiencing some change. Oftentimes, you might hear a therapist say it might feel worse before it gets better. Which that that often happens if you're doing a lot of trauma work. And if you're processing maybe the grief around the diagnosis that you have never done, that could feel maybe painful at first. But then the hope is that you would transition slowly into receiving and experiencing healing around that and moving into maybe more acceptance and hope. So that's kind of a general guideline. timeframe. But you know, every every client is different. But I'd say on average, that's, that's what happened. I appreciate that. I

Scott Benner 1:03:51
just wouldn't want somebody to just do it and then leave and go on. Not

Unknown Speaker 1:03:55
all I don't

Scott Benner 1:03:55
feel perfect. Like this didn't work. And I can imagine everything you said and all the different possibilities being true for somebody. So I want just like a general guideline for them to think yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 1:04:05
Yeah, it does. It does take time to undo, you know, your thinking or your and move to healing. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:04:14
right. Now listen, it's all just our parents fault. I'm just kidding.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:19
Sometimes, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:04:21
Well, I really appreciate you doing this again. And I will talk to you soon.

Unknown Speaker 1:04:26
Okay.

Scott Benner 1:04:30
First things first, let's thank Dexcom and that g six continuous glucose monitor and remind you to go to dexcom.com forward slash juice box. Are you looking for a free no obligation demo of the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, or perhaps a free 30 day trial of the Omni pod dash Hello 30 days. That's one 12th of the Year by omnipod.com Ford slash juicebox. Go find out what you can get. Head over there. It's like One of those crane machines and somebody already dropped the quarter and all you got to do is move the joystick around and see what you get my Omnipod comm forward slash juicebox. Don't forget T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. And of course, thank you so much to Erica for coming on the show. There are links in the show notes, all the sponsors, and a link to Erica, if you're in California, and you'd like to check her out. Thanks so much for listening for the great reviews you've been leaving on your podcast players. And of course, for sharing the show with other people. I really appreciate it when you do that. And when you hit subscribe in your podcast app, I think I just decided how to celebrate 3 million downloads to let me take a look here just real quickly, I won't keep you much longer. You're fine. This one was only an hour, you can do it again. When are we going to hit 3 million. Rough math is about a month from now, about a month from now the show is going to hit 3 million lifetime downloads, which is very, very, very cool and extremely exciting. And I think I know what I'm going to do to celebrate it. I think I'm going to make I don't want to say yet, but I'm going to do something and we'll see if you like it. I always do giveaways and I have to be honest. And only one person gets something and that doesn't seem very celebratory. So I'm going to try to find a way where everybody can have the same thing. We'll see. I'm trying to figure it out. Give me a second. Okay. I'll be back soon. 3 million. It's a big deal. By the way. It's a podcast about type one diabetes, 3 million downloads. Are you kidding me? Gonna have 4 million probably. And I think we definitely hit 4 million this year. Easy. It's just It's crazy. I never imagined first month 2015 January 1000, like 200 downloads or something like that. In a month. I don't even I can't even tell you how many downloads I get in a month now trade secret, but it's a lot. And I wonder if I can find? Hmm, hold on a second. Can I find out exactly how many downloads the podcast had in the first month? I can. I just have to change this to January. If you're still with me, I love you guys. Thanks so much. It's actually March. I started this show in January. But I didn't start it on a service where I could track downloads. I was I did not know what I was doing. Let's just be fair and say that. So maybe March 24 is the first trackable download. So why don't we do April? Even though the show started in January, I just didn't know what I was doing in January. Yeah, I can do this. Hold on a second. I know you're like I already Hold on a second Scott. What the hell but give me a second. Make it how many days are April's that 31 or 30? June to December Maple moon and just I don't even know that Brian. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, what are you gonna do? April 1 to may 1.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:24
Monthly totals.

Scott Benner 1:08:27
Wow, this is crazy. There were days when the show only got 100 downloads a day. Some of these that had like 43 That's so weird. Look at this April. You care about this? April 1 20 1533 downloads. The second nine the third four on the fourth that had 18 all right now just imagine I go forward a day every time I say number 610 34 what even made me keep doing this 109 130 340-617-1627 90 102 152 43

I'm like halfway through April not 2626 Wow. 5724 that's how the whole month goes just like that for for a perspective. Here for perspective, since I started talking about how many downloads there were in April until now. The show has been downloaded 203 times while we were just talking about it. That's crazy, isn't it? It still freaks me out.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:01
Anyway,

Scott Benner 1:10:01
I feeling very celebratory about it. And I've learned I want I want se me there. I was like count Dracula's like I want to tell you about the thing I want to celebrate somehow. So I think I have an idea. People online helped me with what they want me to put it together, I should be able to announce it very, very soon. It's not that exciting, but I think you'll like it. And that's it. All right. We excited? Good. I want to do the thing. I turned into Dracula from a 50s movie there for a second. Anyway, wasn't Erica great. While we're still chatting. I love her. She's coming back again. I'm gonna make her come back. I can't actually make her. That's not how the world works. But I asked her and she said yes already. So she's coming back. Oh, one last thing. I was supposed to put this the front of the show. I'll do that next time. Each episode has transcripts now at Juicebox podcast.com. So many people ask me for transcripts, and it was a ton of work and not fun. But they're there. They're there. hate it when I say that. But they're on Juicebox podcast.com. Now so you go to this specific episode, link for the episode you're listening to you scroll down a little bit. Christ let me look. I didn't mean to curse. Hold on. Juicebox Podcast calm scroll down. Like here's the last episode, falling forward. Number 444. I click on it. The episode page comes up. Scroll down, tells you a little bit about the episode shows you some places you can listen on different apps, you can actually listen right there, there's a player. Then it says click for episode transcript. This is above the sponsor. So if you get to the sponsors Dexcom touch by type one on the pod T one D exchange de vocht. glucagon and the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You've scrolled down too far, scroll back up to where it says click for episode transcript. When you click on that, it opens up words everywhere. There's a tiny disclaimer at the top. And I'll tell you why. Because the transcripts of the transcripts are being done with artificial intelligence. They're not perfect. So just as this text is the output of an AI based transcribing from an audio recording, although the transcript is largely accurate, in some cases, it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcript errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes medical advice, blah, blah, blah. And then it's a transcript. Scott Benner Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 440. For me, talkie talkie all of a sudden Jeff comes up. My name is Jeff. I'm 34 years old. I've been typing. Every episode has this. There's a couple that have it that don't have it still. If you find one that doesn't please email me and let me know. But otherwise, to all the people out there that asked for transcripts. They're there. Go get them. I hope they make your life better. I sincerely do. That's definitely a no no. I'm going bye