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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends. Welcome to Episode 432 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Today's show is with Katie and Katie has two sons who have type one diabetes, and they were diagnosed pretty far apart. So she has an interesting perspective about being a young mother with a type one and a more seasoned mom with a type one. I think you're gonna really love this episode, Katie's excellent. And I really enjoyed having her on the show.

Please remember while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan for becoming bold with insulin.

If at some point after this you'd like to find Katie and her boys on Instagram you can their bolusing underscore brothers.

This show is sponsored today by the glucagon that my daughter carries g vo hypo Penn. Find out more at G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juice box. The juice box podcast is also sponsored by the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. You can find out more at Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox easily the most accurate and simple to use blood glucose meter that my daughter has ever had.

Katie 2:00
Hi, I'm Katie. I live in Bloomington, Minnesota. I live here with my husband. We have been married for almost 10 years going next month I married my high school sweetheart. We have two kids. Caleb who is 12. He was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes when he was four. And Micah who is three who was diagnosed about two weeks before he turned it.

Scott Benner 2:22
Okay, I'm gonna write this down because there's two things happening and then I'm gonna get messed up. So Caleb and Caleb right.

Katie 2:30
Yep. Caleb.

Scott Benner 2:31
Is 12 diagnosed at four. Yep. And give me the second one again.

Unknown Speaker 2:36
Micah Micah,

Scott Benner 2:38
who was recently diagnosed right?

Katie 2:40
recently. Yep. So it was like his one year anniversary and January.

Scott Benner 2:45
Oh, wow. And how old is he now?

Unknown Speaker 2:47
He is three,

Scott Benner 2:48
three. He's cute, too. Just assuming you know already. But he's adorable. So I know you through Instagram. Is that right?

Unknown Speaker 2:58
Yes. Yep.

Scott Benner 2:59
What's your handle on Instagram?

Katie 3:01
It is bolusing brothers. So b o l u s i n g underscore brothers.

Scott Benner 3:07
What made you start the account.

Katie 3:09
Um, I started that account after Michael was diagnosed. And I was looking to be more connected with the community that I use community, I had my own, I still had my own personal one. But that I would post things there. And a lot of my friends and people just didn't know what I was talking about. So I figured, why not branch off and try to find a community of people who can relate to what I can do.

Scott Benner 3:31
What I know about you initially had an account, and it was it was about you and your family. And all of a sudden you start talking about bolusing and things and they were like, I don't know.

Katie 3:40
I think there was a time where I posted something and I was like at the end of his appointment. I was like no appointment times two. And they're like, what endometriosis? I was like, No.

Scott Benner 3:50
Is that what the jumpsuit? Do you have endometriosis? No.

Unknown Speaker 3:53
That's not what I meant. But okay.

Scott Benner 3:56
So then the other account makes sense. Yeah. What? So you're, you were initially looking for contact with people? Did you find it?

Katie 4:03
I did. I think after starting that, I just put like a post of my family. I was like, This Is Us. And I'm just looking forward to meet people. And everybody was just really welcoming. It's just kind of grown from there. But I've met so many different people from all over the place when it's like I need help. Or if I just need to vent. It's just so much support that I just love. That's cool.

Scott Benner 4:25
That's great. So you got what you wanted out of it. And and you're giving something back probably whether you realize it or not just kind of sharing how things are going. I want to know. I guess you're you're interesting because you have two kids and one's been diagnosed for so long. That the technology that he started with, right that Caleb started with, it's got to be different than what Miko started with.

Katie 4:49
Yes, so it's kind of up Sorry,

Scott Benner 4:51
no, no, I was just gonna say tell me first about how it started with Caleb.

Katie 4:54
So Caleb, Caleb was diagnosed as four so just like preschool. So at that point He was just like really, really sick for a long time where it kept going. I was like undiagnosed, like, every time you want to say was, he's got the flu. He's got this. He's got everything besides diabetes. So he got to the point where that started in, like November. And then by December, he was really sick, to where he was lost all the weight was really skinny. He couldn't see straight, he was like always falling over.

Scott Benner 5:27
So he was in DK,

Katie 5:28
he was in full DK.

Scott Benner 5:30
And it took about a month or five or six weeks to figure that out and coach him. So you kept going back to your general practitioner, and they kept saying it's this it's this and trying different things. And it was the prescription always wait allowed to get better?

Katie 5:43
Yes, yeah. Yep. Oh, and it was kind of like a crazy time because my husband was working three jobs at this point. And I was working too. So there's a lot with my mom, okay. And my mom was like, I'm taking him in. I think he has diabetes. And I was like, I kind of slacked it off that she was just like, crazy. Like, I didn't know anything about type one. So I'm like, diabetes, are you sure. And crazy enough, I got a phone call while I was at work from the doctor sitting with my mom. And she's like, you need to leave right now. Your son's being taken to the hospital, and you need to go right now. Wow.

Scott Benner 6:15
And did she say for? Like,

Katie 6:17
your diabetes? Yes.

Scott Benner 6:18
So I was gonna say were you first more shocked that your kid had to go to the hospital that your mom was right about a little bit? I would love to be in that moment. And in your head, just to hear the like, dammit, she was right. She was right. Was that now Why does my kid Why does my four year old have diabetes? Like what is that? What was your understanding of diabetes at that point?

Katie 6:38
Honestly, I didn't have much of a nice thing besides like, type two, so are just like things associated with like diet and weight. And I'm like, okay, it's fine. It's healthy. What do you mean, he has diabetes? I didn't have any concept of like the pancreas and everything that goes into type one. I didn't know.

Scott Benner 6:54
I don't know. I wouldn't blame you. Any. Now in hindsight, any people in your family with other endocrine issues?

Katie 7:02
Not that we know of my husband doesn't have any. And I only have a relationship on my mom's side. So if there's anything going on my father side would not

Scott Benner 7:09
you wouldn't know, man. Yeah, I'm adopted. So very frequently, when people ask questions like that, I'm like I have, I have no idea. To tell you, I'm as far as I knew, the first person in my family. starts here. So and it hasn't been it's not good roots to the tree so far. years from now, my children's children are gonna look back and go, what was wrong with him? Exactly. All kinds of things. Well, okay, so there's nobody to really lean on. So you're starting fresh. And you and your husband have like you said, you work a lot. So what happens then to Caleb's care? Does it go to your mom, mostly does it fall to you? How do you handle that?

Katie 7:50
Well, when he first started out in this journey, it was my mom. So I took time off. And I stayed with him like he was at a hospital for a week. So I stayed there the entire time. My husband was in and out. But when it was time to go back, he would go and bi moms. Okay,

Scott Benner 8:08
so she had him during the day, where I guess if you're working that many jobs, it's not just nine to five, right? You're,

Katie 8:15
for me, it was a nine like a nine to five, but my husband, it would be a 16 hour days off pretty long. Gotcha.

Scott Benner 8:22
Okay, so he's okay. So even when it wasn't your mom, then it was mostly you?

Unknown Speaker 8:27
Yeah. And

Scott Benner 8:28
did it? Did it eventually grow? Or has your husband sort of stayed? Like, did you guys like, Go look, you go make money? I'll take care of the diabetes are how have you? broken? Yes.

Katie 8:38
Yep. So as time went on, he still kind of works a lot. He slowed down, but I only work one. So I go. Right now I currently work in the same school club goes to so we go to school together, we leave school together or home. That's nice. I

Unknown Speaker 8:51
just nice.

Scott Benner 8:51
I have to tell you, if I could trade 16 hours worth of work every day to not think about diabetes, it might feel like a fair trade to me. Is that all I have to do to get out of this?

Unknown Speaker 9:03
A little up?

Scott Benner 9:05
Probably doesn't think so. But I put it does. You know, that's, it's really interesting. But I listen, I think it's reasonable. For care to be in one person's hands more than the other because of the nature of it. Just it's difficult to pass it back and forth, and back and forth. And we still lose track. Just the other day, I went to the store to go grocery shopping, and I came back and I just walked in the house. I was like, does anybody see origins blood sugar, but me? Am I the only one that sees it? Am I the only one that cares? I'm like, flipping out. Like everyone obviously cares, right? And I hear like, I didn't hear beeping. I didn't hear beeping. I'm like, it's beeping. And you know, and her blood sugar gets to like 180 it's not the worst thing in the world. We get it back down. But my wife goes, Well, you didn't tell me you weren't gonna pay attention to it when you left. And I thought, well, that's reasonable. You know, so she's got this idea in her head. She's working. And she's thinking he's got it. And then all of a sudden I leave and just comment, it felt like comments. Like, I'm not in the house anymore, you know, Could someone else do it, but because of the share, it's not like I'm really disconnected from it. So I was like, Alright, you know, I didn't say anything. You're right. And, uh, so the next time I left, I was like, I'm leaving now. Could anyone pay attention to this besides me, please? And, you know, everybody looked at me really, like kind of snotty sounds like, Alright, I understand what's going on. But no, I think it's a good idea. And that's mainly, so tell me about Caleb's. Like outcomes in those first, you know, I guess, 567 years in there, where they where you wanted them to be, where were the struggles that and wherever the, you know, wherever the, the good parts?

Katie 10:40
Well, when we first started out, we were doing okay, I wouldn't say we were doing great. It was I was a lot of overwhelmed with like, all the information and everything. And I didn't really seem to, like figure out everything that worked. But he, we went about like six months before he got on Omnipod. Which was nice, because he really hated the injections. That was really hard. But we went through this like spiral of just like burnout, burnout for years, it was very unhealthy, very stressful for him. And for me, here's a one See, I believe, when he started out was higher, and we were able to get down to like an eight. But for at least like a good three to four years. I couldn't break anything underneath a ton.

Scott Benner 11:26
Okay. So for the first three or four years, you couldn't get under a tent and you were working like you're not. You weren't just like this will be fine and not attention to it. Right. Right. Right. So describe that a little bit like what what did those days look like when, when that was going on? You wake up in the morning, did you test right away like habits like seriously, like start to finish? How did the day go?

Katie 11:48
So when it would be like a weekend or a day he was with me? It would be wake up test for breakfast test before meal. So the directions are doctor's test before meals, or if he's not feeling well. And that's pretty much what I would did. So it'd be before breakfast before lunch before dinner before bed. And then in between if he didn't feel well.

Scott Benner 12:07
Did you have a feeling that this wasn't the right thing to do while it was happening? Or were you just thinking you were bad at it? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what's the feedback that what's the feedback feel like when it doesn't work?

Katie 12:17
I felt like I was bad at it. Like I have the directions from the handle. And I'm doing what they're telling me to do. I'm testing I'm correcting and bolusing when he's getting in, or when he's eating something. But the outcome is always he's not feeling well, and he's high in the ANC is always high.

Scott Benner 12:35
So from your perspective, the only thing you can figure that's wrong is you because you're doing all the things you've been told to do. That's terrible. And I and it does weigh on you right. Like, people call it burnout. But it's the overwhelming feeling, especially as a parent, and you know, maybe I'm taking that back, whether you're an adult with type one or a parent of someone with type one. It's this feeling like you're just a failure, just constantly failing and failing and failing. And and it's got to be you because some guy in a white coat, right? Like who went to school longer than you did. And people call him sir and doctor and stuff like that. He told you what to do, or she I feel badly for you. And I felt the exact same way. I just thought this is me. I'm doing this wrong. You know? It turns out you're not though. So what was the first like light bulb moment for you that led you away from that?

Katie 13:24
It wasn't until his brother was diagnosed. It came to a point like building up so when his brother was diagnosed that last like year was really tough. I had the newborn wasn't a newborn, but I had a new baby him and it came to a point where we weren't on a Dexcom at this point quite yet. We tried like an earlier version of the Dexcom. And he hated it. So getting him on that wasn't gonna work. He wasn't convinced he didn't want to go on whenever again. And then he would eat and not Bolus he would hide it. He was sneaking food, he wouldn't test his fingers. He wouldn't do any of those things. Yeah. And so it was kind of like me trying to control diabetes in the dark. What do

Scott Benner 14:09
you think leads to the sneaking Do you ever does hindsight ever tell you did you see something happening? Or do you think it was just the the unrelenting You know, this isn't working because I don't know about you, but I have a hard time. Back in the day. I had a hard time pretending everything was okay when it obviously wasn't and everybody knew it wasn't you know what I mean? Right? Right. Which which did you go for? Do you go for it's all fine. Don't worry about it or were you more honest.

Katie 14:34
I was more honest. Like it really did frustrate me and I would just tell them I mean if you want eat the snack, eat the snack but we have to do something about it. I don't know if he kind of felt like he didn't want to be bothered with it. Like this is what we're going to be doing every day. We'd go to the end oh you know with that agency and it was always bad news all the time. So you're always getting like beat up I think both of us between all of that just kind of gave up. Did you

Scott Benner 14:58
did you feel like he Where did you begin? Give him any perspective for what it really meant. It's so hard at that age, like you're thinking four to nine, basically, we're talking about in that range, right? Like, how does he like, how do you tell him like, this is really bad for your health? Like, how do kids quantify that? You know what I mean?

Katie 15:13
Free and I don't know, if he fully did. I mean, we would talk about different people are different, like outcomes that could happen or just even comparing it to how he felt. Because they mean days where he'd wake up feeling like crap and would throw up and all that's just related to his blood sugar. So it wasn't because he was sick. And I'm like, if you don't want to feel this way, we have to get on top of it. Wow.

Scott Benner 15:33
It's interesting. Interesting, it's the wrong word. It's overwhelming for me to hear that. Because, you know, I think of you now, like, I don't know, you know, you, but I'm aware of your face. And I know what your children look like, you know what I mean? And, and we, we talk back and forth sometimes and and to feel like your son was so high that he was vomiting is like, his feels crushing to me a little bit that like that happened to you? You know? Yeah. And, and I can't imagine being in the moment, because you're standing there going, this is not okay. And yet, we don't have any real answers. Now. Do you not have answers? Because I don't know what I want to know. Like, when you go back to a doctor and tell them that, how do they respond to you,

Katie 16:19
we would go through is like kind of like re education, but it's like the same pieces of information. But one of his, his nurses, she has her son is like a year older than Caleb and her son is a type one. And she's like, you really have to get this Dexcom. So it was like the newest version. And she kind of just talked him into it. And this was like leading up because at this point, this was what maybe she'll lie. Right before so July 2019. Okay, we were preparing for Caleb to go he was going to go to Kenya for an entire month with my husband and family. So I'm saying here diabetes lady who manages everything is staying in the States. And they're going so his, the nurse was just like, you should really sign up for this. And that was like the stepping point right there was getting that prescription for that.

Scott Benner 17:10
Were you out of your mind that he was going away for a month without you?

Unknown Speaker 17:13
Oh, my gosh, well, yeah, a little bit, I think

Scott Benner 17:17
I would have been like, but he doesn't. He's been working. He didn't know anything about this and not for nothing. I don't appear to know anything about it either.

Katie 17:25
Going away. And it was crazy. Cuz he was my husband and my sister in law both came to like appointments building up to that to get all their questions answered. And everything, tried to be squared away the best as possible for sending him?

Scott Benner 17:37
Yeah. Let me ask you a question that might be a little more unpleasant. And don't answer it if you don't feel like you want to. But have you ever cognitively thought that you're treated differently? For having brown skin in a doctor's office? Do you think there's the the Hey, they those people, quote unquote, don't care as much about their health as other people because I've heard a lot about that lately, that there's there's actually data that says that doctors might subconsciously believe that brown people don't care about their health as much. I don't know where that would come from. But have you ever seen that?

Katie 18:10
I have, not necessarily in Caleb's diabetes experience, or even my cuz i arendal is actually Middle Eastern. And she's a very sweet lady, and she gets us in our stands us. But thinking back to like experiences I've had personally, I have definitely seen that. For example, when I had Caleb, I was 20 1920. And my husband and we're not married yet. And when I went into labor, I feel like we're treated differently in the hospital. Caleb was born with an issue that I can't even name to this point where he has spent a week in the nick you. They kind of were like we were brushed off and people weren't giving us information. I feel like it was treated based on the fact that the way we looked the fact that we were young, unmarried couple and the type of insurance we had, yeah, and I remember like my sister in law was a few years older than us like going in and like yelling at these nurses and yelling at the doctors like about this issue and how they're adjusting and treating us.

Scott Benner 19:07
That's a tough I mean, that is you were like 20 years old. That's it? Yeah. I don't know how to stand up for yourself when you're 20. In that scenario, you don't mean like you need kind people to say, it gets so simple, isn't it right to look and say there's some unmarried young people here having a baby who's come out, and it's having an issue? we could we could lift them up here. You don't I mean, like we could, like common sense voices for them. We could point them in the right direction. But it how much of that feeling of over being treated differently? I wonder is you really being treated differently? And how much of it is you feeling like that imposter syndrome, like you don't feel like you belong there because I've had that feeling in my life to do you know what I mean? Like, my wife and I got married pretty young. And I remember being in a furniture store. And we had an apartment and we wanted a sofa and we had money. For a sofa, and we stood and stood, and salespeople just walked past us and walked past us. And no lie. I've never told this anywhere before. I took out my credit card and held it up over my head and said, I have money and I'd like to buy a sofa. Can someone help me? That's literally how I got somebody to help me buy a sofa. And I don't have any issue with my color that, you know, in that way. And it was really, it was crazy. I was like, Oh, my God, they don't assume I'm serious. Didn't mean like that, or that. I don't know what they didn't think. But they just avoided us. like the plague it was, you know, not the same thing. But I remember feeling then moving forward, that we weren't serious players in like an adult life, if that makes sense. Yeah, and it takes a while to get past that, then, especially if people are gonna keep treating you that way. I just I was really was really interested. And I'm glad to hear it. It doesn't exist with your endo. But your endo also has a different perspective, I guess. Yes. That's that's really something. I wonder if it happens, despite the color of the doctor. Like, I wonder if it is a systemic issue. Do you know what I mean? Like that? That's the feeling. I don't know. That's very strange. That did you ever feel like you weren't interested in your own health?

Katie 21:19
No. Like, if I'm there, and I'm paying business, like No, that's not it.

Scott Benner 21:25
Right? Right. You're not disinterested? Right? So. So the key here, it seems to me is that somebody on the other end, no matter what the scenario is, has to have the compassion to walk you through something no matter who you are on the other side of it. You know, I mean, your interest level like that, because there are people who are just overwhelmed and decide to write off their health because they don't feel like they can do it. But you could reach those people if you worked at it and tried, I think, yes. And so what was it was it seeing the Dexcom is that what brought things into focus for you see and data. g Volk hypo pan has no visible needle, and it's the first premixed auto injector of glucagon for very low blood sugar and adults and kids with diabetes ages two and above. Not only is chivo hypo pen simple to administer, but it's simple to learn more about, all you have to do is go to G Vogue glucagon.com forward slash juicebox Jeeva shouldn't be used in patients with insulinoma or pheochromocytoma. Visit g Vogue glucagon.com slash risk. When you're using a blood glucose meter, you want it to be accurate, you want it to be easy to use, easy to read, and easy to see in the dark. And if you had a Contour Next One blood glucose meter, you would have all of those things. Arden has never used a meter that is so accurate, or so simple to carry with you. It's tiny, but not so small that you can't hold it. It's simple, but yet does everything you needed to do. And if you want it can connect to your phone by Bluetooth. And you can use the contour app to do even more. But you can find out about that at Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox. While you're there, you'll also be able to find out about their other products, their test trip savings program, and you may even be eligible for a free Contour Next One meter, you'll find out when you get there at Contour Next one.com forward slash juicebox. YouTube can simply and affordably use the best meter that Arden has ever had. And last but not least, to support type one diabetes research and studies that are helpful to people living with type one including you. All you have to do is be a US citizen and have type one or a US citizen who is the caregiver of a person with type one. And in just a few minutes. You can add incredibly important answers to simple and easy questions right there from your sofa right on your phone or your tablet and help Type One Diabetes Research to move forward T one D exchange forward slash juicebox. Alright, let's get back to Katie.

Katie 24:23
Seeing the data for Caleb started putting a focus seeing that what's going on in between those checks are even when he wasn't checking, but it was still problem. Still problem. We had a problem. But it was like a problem from the time where he was at my house the time he left. So problem at home problem my grandma's problem at school school is a big issue. The nurse throughout elementary that was an awful, awful experience. So just like seeing all of that building up. We're already like in a tense mess when his younger brother was diagnosed Wow. So

Scott Benner 24:58
you slap the seat GM on him to go on the trip. I do think I want to find out how the trip went. But but but now you see everything that's happening now it's not just this random mess. It's an actual mess you can look at right? Yes. Yeah. And then your other kid gets diagnosed?

Unknown Speaker 25:14
Yes.

Scott Benner 25:14
Oh my goodness. Did they make it to Kenya?

Katie 25:18
They did. But Kim was not on the Dexcom yet. Okay, you didn't actually get on like a proof to everything and tell. So we started that process in July, I think July and he didn't get that Dexcom till December.

Scott Benner 25:31
Okay, so the trip had happened in between them. So it was really just business as usual while he was born. Wow. Pumping or injections,

Katie 25:40
pumping stuff. So we've been on the Omnipod consistently since six months into his thing, right? And, and,

Scott Benner 25:46
and so and I don't mean this as a judgement, I really am asking, at any point, did it feel to you prior to Dexcom his blood sugar's high, insulin makes you lower. He should have more insulin did that ever? Like

Katie 26:02
it did it did but I had this constant fear of insulin, like I was drilled in my head that if I give him too much, my kid's gonna die. Or he's gonna have a seizure. I'm have to dig out the glucagon and give him a shot. I was really afraid to give him too much. Or even change the settings in that talk.

Scott Benner 26:20
So the fear Got you. That's reasonable happens to a lot of people. And so were you trading so you weren't unaware of what high one season? High blood sugars we're gonna do to him long term? You were aware of that as well?

Unknown Speaker 26:33
Yes. Okay. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 26:34
you were just sort of trading? One for the one for the other. Yeah. Like, I always think of it. I know, this is like more of it. But I always think of people who jump out of windows to avoid fires. Right? You know, like, just just sort of like, well, this is gonna kill me now. And this is gonna kill me later. I'm gonna go with later. And you know, it's just a it's a, I bring it up, because I think that people could see it as an excuse. But it's a coping mechanism, and a survival instinct. Right? You know, it really is. And so fears is good enough reason is any so Okay, so how did the data stop you from being afraid?

Unknown Speaker 27:11
It did it.

Katie 27:14
I would call it out. And I was constantly emailing his team. And it was always correct. Two hours, correct. Two hours. So I'm doing that thinking that I'm making a difference, right,

Unknown Speaker 27:24
but I'm not.

Katie 27:27
But it was just kind of like a whole bunch of series of events that led us to making the change. I think that that was that. But then, Caleb was also right around the same time where Michael was diagnosed, Caleb was scheduled to do a GI stem test, because he hadn't grown in about two years. Okay, so no, wait, no hype, just kind of plateaued at the same.

Scott Benner 27:51
Yeah. And it's funny. So they want to do it. What test then

Katie 27:54
is called a cheap gh stem test growth hormone stimulation test,

Scott Benner 27:59
I would think they would want to give him more insulin so that he could. Okay. Yeah, but I hear you. So that test happens. I'm assuming that led to what? Nothing?

Katie 28:10
legia there was nothing wrong. Yeah. Diabetes.

Scott Benner 28:14
Yeah. What I mean, it's like, I don't know if people don't understand this or not. But, you know, you need that insulin, that's important. And it slows down other functions of your body. And if you look back, I don't know any of the details on this. Somebody not use any of the words, but a long time ago, people who had diabetes would not they would call it not thrive, right. Like they wouldn't grow or gain weight or anything like that. But it really just was they didn't have enough insulin, you know? Wow, that, so how big was he then when you got that test? You remember? Um,

Katie 28:49
I don't it's kind of black. But he's, he was about he's shorter than he is. Now. Let's say that he's, he's put on a good like six pounds since then, since we've kind of made a turn around and he's definitely put on height.

Scott Benner 29:02
Okay. And in how much time?

Katie 29:06
So if we go back to when we actually started, like making big changes, it's about a year.

Scott Benner 29:13
Okay. Let me share this with you. It's gonna come up in an episode eventually, but I don't think I've ever said it anywhere. When we found out Arden had hypothyroidism, so she wasn't getting enough, you know, of the hormone that she needed from her thyroid. Arden was five feet. Was she five, one or two, and weighed 75 or 80 pounds. And now I think we're three years later. Arden is 571 30.

Unknown Speaker 29:47
Wow.

Scott Benner 29:48
And I think if we don't figure out that she has hypothyroidism, she doesn't get a chance to grow. Right and I just I listened. I'm obviously not a doctor, but it seems to me that when your body is struggling like that, Other systems close down? Yeah. And and that's it, but I can't even tell you. She's one of the tallest girls in her school. Wow. You know, and she was one of the smallest people you'd ever met in your life like, no lie. She was out recently, well, before all this, she was out with my wife in a store that my wife said she bumped into somebody who used to coach Arden and softball, and they're chatting. And while they're talking, Arden realizes what's happening and walks up behind my wife sort of stands over her shoulder, but doesn't interject. She just stands behind her. And Kelly said that the conversation went on for minutes after that, until the guy went, Oh, my God, is that Arden. And she was taller than the guy. And like this grown man, and he had, he's like, I had no, he said, I just kept thinking, I wonder why this person is standing behind her while we're talking. didn't even ask her. So I'm excited to see you know, where your son gets to? It's Yeah, it's exciting. Are you bigger people? Like, are you tall? or,

Katie 30:59
um, I'm about five, four. And I think my husband's like five, eight, so we're not the tallest. But right, it'd be nice to see if he gets somewhere closer, even taller.

Scott Benner 31:08
I think the goal actually at that range, like the goal ends up being right like 5758. And then if they're going to be tall for your family to get to 510, something like that. That would be nice. I know, my son's pissed that he's not taller and blames me. I know, he's, I know, he looks at me, he thinks it's his fault. Yes, my wife is tall and all the men in her side of the family are very tall. So he's probably right. But again, I'm adopted. So I can just say it's not me. It's somebody else that we don't know. Okay, so I want to try to get the idea straight here a little bit. Okay. As you're trying to figure out Dexcom and you're starting to get the information back with Caleb. Yeah, mica comes online as a type one as well.

Unknown Speaker 31:53
Yes.

Scott Benner 31:54
Is it the I can't do this, the two of them feeling like what really, like, propelled you forward? Do you think do you think you just took a little while to figure out the Dexcom? Is it a weird coincidence that they happen at the same time or no?

Katie 32:06
No. Well, with mica, we had him tested through trial net.

Unknown Speaker 32:10
Okay, so,

Katie 32:12
so I knew so we were playing the waiting game for almost almost a year it didn't even even reach the airplane. We were testing him on a weekly basis. So building up with all these background things with Caleb happening, we're just playing waiting with Micah. So when Micah I noticed his blood sugar took one like fasting one, it was like 200 I immediately knew something was Sun was up. So we got into Caleb's endo and he pretty much told me you know, you have a year you have about a year with the with all those antibodies you have about a year before he gets it. So the waiting game goes on that 200 they diagnosed him that day, which is really weird because we were seeing an endo that Caleb used to see when he was diagnosed the same and always seen them and seen in the hospital. Okay, and that endo was the one we were squeezed into super mica. And they ran the agency I think Mike his agency was a like a nine. So like, I didn't need the doctor to come in and tell me anything at that point. We could have went home, but

Unknown Speaker 33:19
we're good. We're good. Let's go for a little bit and then we'll get going.

Katie 33:24
Yeah, so but it was January 17. The same doctor not in the hospital but in the clinic telling me that Micah had it which is the same day and doctor that told me that Caleb had it so it's like this little devil moment

Unknown Speaker 33:39
wait the same day?

Katie 33:41
January 17. May 17 2019 versus 2013 Wow, same doctor which we don't even see on a regular basis ever

Scott Benner 33:49
anyway that's weird if I was you I would never go into hospital on that day to get

Unknown Speaker 33:53
no

Scott Benner 33:56
I got shot like I'm waiting till tomorrow nothing good is gonna happen on this date and anywhere near Oh, doctor. Oh my god. Oh, sorry. That's Well, okay. So his is a nine Caleb's is still high

Katie 34:12
kills like a weapon or even like a 12. At this point. He's going up

Scott Benner 34:15
the other way because the food around you thinks you're not even able to keep it where you were keeping it. I got it.

Katie 34:21
Okay, no. And then I remember I had to continue work that day. We were short staffed. I came home after picking up my kids new prescriptions gave him his Lantus and he's screaming and he's crying at this point, which I don't blame him. You know, it's a whole different thing. And then I turn around and go in the kitchen. And there's Caleb, eating dinner without no Bolus, no checking anything and it just sent me off. I remember looking at him, and I kind of lashed out a little bit. I just remember telling him like, this is what you're going to teach your brother. This is what we're going to do. Are we going to do this for the rest of your life for my life, For his life, this is what we're gonna do. And I remember handing mica after my husband. And I was like, I can't do this. And I went down into the bathroom, and I closed the door and I turned on the ceiling fan and I just cried, like I curled up on the bottom had like a good ugly cry. It wasn't even like a, it was like a full breakdown. I think at that point, I just snapped, like, everything I had spent. And I think that went on for like, a good 30 to 40 minutes. And then I that was just like that aha moment, like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not gonna start it with mica, and I'm not doing this with Caleb. Okay. And that was a moment when I wanted to take an initiative that if I wasn't going to get help through the doctor, like I was gonna go and look and find it for myself.

Scott Benner 35:41
So I'm wondering, do you think that you just reset an expectation? Like, this is what we're going to do? And I'm wondering to how much of that because if I'm not sure how well I'm doing the math here, but uh, Caleb's 12. How old are you?

Unknown Speaker 35:58
I'm 32.

Scott Benner 36:00
So you had them when you were 20? If you would agree now at 32 you were a kid when you were 20? Right? Yes. Yeah.

Katie 36:06
Only not mature quite yet there? I

Scott Benner 36:08
don't think so. Is it possible that you start being a parent, not as an adult, and then it feels more like a collaboration like you don't mean like, there's this moment when you have to, like, I use my son as an example. He's a nice kid. And he's bright, and but sometimes he's gruff, and short. And I let him do that because too, he is. But every once in a while, I'll be like, Hey, I, what are you doing right now? Like, great, talk nice. And he's not like that all the time. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's every once in a while, it ends up being honestly, if he's exhausted, or tired, or he's just played for hours, you can't walk up to him afterwards and say, Hey, how'd it go today? Because he's gonna be a girl, you know, but and most of the time, I understand that, but but every once in a while, I stopped and I go, No, no, this is not how we talk to each other. And forget me, don't talk to people this way. Like, you're gonna end up with some girl who will put up with us. And that's not going to be good for you. Because nobody should put up with us like talking, you know, speak. And, and I think there's just a moment when you, you feel you feel like your job. I felt like my job was making my kids happy when I first had them. And then as you get older, you realize your job really is to direct them and to and to do the thinking for them that they can't do. And I just wondered if you got trapped in that in the beginning, so you know,

Katie 37:28
I think so. I think cuz I mean, I wasn't just that, like Mike and Caleb have two different life's like two different parenting experiences. Yeah. And I think when Caleb was little, like, I just wanted to make him happy. And I think I didn't put my feet down as much as I should have.

Scott Benner 37:51
Well, it's a Caleb got like the Ooh, wow, you got pregnant parents? Exactly. And Micah got that, hey, this is working out. And we're gonna have another baby parents. And yeah, we're gonna stay married and make a family. Those people right. Yeah. Now, you don't see that about yourself when you're young. And you're and you're, and that's happening to you think oh, or have a family now. But really, everyone else is looking at you going? I wonder how long this will last? You know, and for most people, it doesn't last very long. And you just end up being too, you know, intelligent, reasonable people who want to make a family and keep doing it. That's really interesting. Don't have a third baby.

Unknown Speaker 38:27
Oh, no, we're done. Back

Scott Benner 38:29
kiddo. Get like back it'll get like, old tired. You just like I don't care what happens?

Unknown Speaker 38:36
yourself.

Scott Benner 38:37
Whatever. Yeah. So to you, you basically walked up to Caleb while he was eating and said we can't do this. This isn't what we're gonna show your brother. You went in and did what you did. I know. I've been on the other side of that before those three boys sat in that kitchen. They were like this. Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 38:57
Yes, she

Scott Benner 38:58
seems really upset. Did you come back? More of a? I don't know. Fierce. How did you come back up the steps. I guess.

Katie 39:07
I came back. I was actually calm. And I was like, we're gonna try something new. I don't know what that is. But we're gonna do it. And I think Yeah, we'll just skip. So it's like, Okay.

Scott Benner 39:19
I don't need her getting into this and being upset and yelled at me. So I'll just do whatever she says. But isn't that interesting? Because at any point along the road, I guess you've had to live with that. At any point along the road. You could have gotten that you could have done this. Yeah. But it took this other thing to happen.

Katie 39:34
Yeah, it's kind of like, in a way I know. sounds awful. But I feel like mica things happened for a reason. And maybe it took my gut getting that diabetes to shake, shake me shake me awake to take that control.

Scott Benner 39:48
Well, I mean, at those agencies, if you want to use that analogy, his diagnosis could very well have saved Caleb's life honestly, you know, because you guys weren't, you weren't getting it, and then you got the CGM and you had that That very there's some people talking about getting a glucose monitor then being overwhelmed by the information. Is that how you felt? At first? Okay. Yeah. And that's because you didn't have any tools you didn't know what to do with the data once you had it. Right. Yeah, that's that that really is. That's still a gap. Right? Like you can't you can't just be have all this thrown at you suddenly, cuz you already struggling. Now you're struggling with numbers you don't understand. That's not good. You know? What did you already well, what did you go figure out? It's time to find out.

Katie 40:32
So at this point, what we're in January, January, I started just like looking at things. So in my head, I was like, I can control his blood sugar if I limit the carb intake. Okay, so I was starting to look up like different things about I didn't fully consider doing like, keto or super low carb. But I started challenging Caleb to have less carbs, especially during the day. So when he is not with me, let's put a cap on how much he's eating for lunch, or because my mom would pack his lunch. So I would talk to her about what what's in his lunch today? Can we keep it under 40 grams of carbs? What about breakfast? So we started there, and I started seeing a small difference, but it wasn't slight. So maybe he was hanging around 300. Now he's hanging around 250.

Scott Benner 41:11
Okay, for me, but still a move? Mo Yeah, little cause and effect, you're saying at least.

Katie 41:17
Mm hmm. And then I remember, like going on Pinterest, I think it was Pinterest, and I was looking up different recipes. And they came up with grit, like a different group. I don't quite remember which group it is. But they're very, like intense about being very low carb and finished, intense. And I was like, well, maybe I should try this. But in my head. I was like, if I push Caleb this way, this could have a negative effect. Because he's already at an edge. I don't want to take away food and things and have him have another negative relationship with the day.

Scott Benner 41:48
This was just too far. The other way. This was your eat an egg. Now don't eat anything. Have a sprig of lettuce like it was Yes. Okay.

Katie 41:56
And then when I'm so switching up these recipes, I had an ad or like a picture of someone posted of your podcast.

Scott Benner 42:03
Oh, cool. This is the part I love. These are my favorite parts of the podcast good.

Katie 42:06
Yeah, I just saw. I saved it. I saved that in a little little board thing I had for a diabetes. And I kept it moving for a couple more weeks. But I was I had idle time, which I usually didn't have much, especially while Mike goes like, smaller. And I turned it on and I had Listen, I think it was your most recent episode. At that time. I think it was Katie and the old man. Okay. And listening to this teenage girl talk about how well she was managing her diabetes. While I'm over here struggling as like a 30 year old woman. Thank you, man wait for her. But I was like a light bulb went off. Like people actually can do this. And they're living and finding their story isn't my story, right? Something's up.

Scott Benner 42:52
Yeah. How do I make this match better and make it make sense? Hey, in that episode, I was the old man, right? Yeah. I seriously couldn't remember for a second. I was like, did we do like an interview with her and a father? Is that like, I wouldn't call someone else. Oh, this must have been about me. I really, but it's interesting, that that had so much impact on you. And as you were talking about, I thought, I don't remember that. All I can tell you is that from the title. I must have listened to it and felt like an old person talking to a young person. And that's why I call it that. And but she did a remarkable job of of handling herself. Yeah. And and that made you think like how this kid can do it? Like, what am I doing? Like, I gotta be able to do this right? Don't you think she'll be thrilled to hear that when this comes out one day? Oh, look what I did. So that's very cool. And so did you delve in Then did you start listening from live? Did you go back would you do?

Katie 43:48
I started like my, that process. I was gonna start from the latest and then go backwards. But I remember I messaged you. And I was like, Hey, I just discovered your podcast and I laid out my situation a little bit and then you messaged me back which I was shocked. Because I was like, podcast, people message people back, which is

Scott Benner 44:05
a thing. Like I remember your story making me feel very sad, which is what got me back quickly. And yeah, here's the trick for people if you must know, children with big agencies, or adults that sound like they're about to, you know, close their eyes and fall off a cliff. That gets me pretty right in the heart. Just so you know. So. Okay, so, okay, but then what? And

Katie 44:26
that was me both of those things. Maybe I was like,

Unknown Speaker 44:30
a bit of a mess is what we're saying.

Katie 44:34
And then I remember You shot me a message and you said start with these episodes. So that's where I started. So what's the different pro tips ones that you had at that point? And then like the ones about like insulin and just like resetting? Mm hmm. So I started there and I started taking notes. But the one thing you had said that will just make like a bit of a difference was Pre-Bolus Singh. So as soon as I got that message, that's what we did immediately. That day was starting 20 minutes set a timer, Mike is is 10 because he Flores with turtle. But doing that. And then I just remember having a conversation with him. I was like, Hey, we have nothing to lose. This was about spring break for school at this point, I was like, give me a week. See how you feel? See if it's something we can do. And just trust me, do you trust me? And he said he did. And within that week, we had seen numbers from that 250 inch cluster that 200 to higher 100. And to him that was like a win. Yeah, right. We're making process. So he we were all in at that point. Cool.

Scott Benner 45:39
He must have felt when did he start feeling low at like, 150?

Katie 45:42
Yes. So that was the conversation. So just like, just try to tough it out. I know, it's just your body adjusting, we just have to give it time. If it gets out of control, then we'll worry about getting some carbs in there. But that's really cool. It took a while for him to get that adjustment to be able to sit at like 80 and feel okay,

Scott Benner 46:01
right? Well, I mean, there's so much to it. Like you can say the steps. I think it's why the podcast is is valuable is because it's easy to say like I'll tell you right now, like here it is. Get your basil right, then Pre-Bolus. then learn about glycemic index and glycemic. There you go, you're done. Right. And so the problem is, is that there's a lot around those three ideas. And it's not as easy as just being told you know it, it's not, hey, listen, here's the steps for getting out of this room, stand up, turn the knob pull the door towards you like it is that but you know that you can you can imagine when someone says to you. Okay, so you started Pre-Bolus. And he went from, like, into the higher hundreds. That gets you excited. And you're like, what do we do? So what was the next step, but you keep doing what

Katie 46:44
I do. So then I was listening to like the bezels. And so that was a scary moment for me, right? Because I already had a few of insulin. So I'm gonna change something and said, I've never changed anything in the pump, without the doctors. So I remember listening to that episode, I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna do it. I don't think it's gonna kill him. So I'm just gonna do it. And once I started this, like that, that basil pro tip episode made all of the difference, Miko was a little bit easier. You still had him winning. So his was a little bit easier to get down. But Caleb, I would set the basil, I'd watch it for a couple of days, study it and make changes. And within like, a month, month and a half, we would see such a big difference in like his clarity app. Yeah, I remember there was one day we had like a family get together. I think this was June. So by June where he had hit like, 98% in range. Wow.

Scott Benner 47:35
And what's your range set out again?

Katie 47:37
for him? We had it set from 70 to 140.

Scott Benner 47:41
Wow, that's really great. That's exciting. Wow, good job. Congratulations. How did Caleb feel once his blood sugar got low and stable?

Katie 47:52
He was fine. And he was so excited. Like he would be so proud that that was it. And then you would see some of the other things that came with those high blood sugar starches. So like, he used to be really aggressive or kind of short. Um, I can't say for school, because that was summertime. But as we went into the fall, like his focus, his grades, his things, everything about him change,

Scott Benner 48:15
okay? Just the end, and for the better in your mind. And

Katie 48:19
the better. Okay, the better way better. All different kids.

Scott Benner 48:22
I know that I once got this some private note from a woman. And in the course of the note, she admitted that I used to just think my daughter was a bitch. Those were her words. And, and she's like, she's not. And you know, it took me, it took me finding a podcast to figure that out. And you know, that, I always think of that, because I feel like, like, you know, just for the same for you, like you could have had a relationship with your son for his whole life, or he's not really being himself, and you feel like this is who he is, you know, and that's just not something fair on it is just every level. Wow. What did the doctor say?

Katie 49:05
So let me see. So he didn't see her. I seen her right before we had to start the journey. And then we seen her in August. So I'm off for the summer. So we work this entire summer portion, working on getting it down. And I remember we went in, and then they ran my guess first I think what Michael was like a six. So he went from like the nine to a six. Yeah. And then Caleb's came in. And I think he was what like seven? Well, it was he was down there. And then like the look, he started, he lit up instantly. When because that's the first part we started. They take the agency, then they take you off to the wait for the doctor.

Scott Benner 49:41
Right, right. Yeah, that's how are supposed to.

Katie 49:43
And so when the doctor came in, like she was smiling, and she was just like, I had to make sure that when I printed this out that I had the right last names on here, because this is not what I see. Right? Especially like I double checked a few times before I came in, to make sure that I had printed out the right All

Scott Benner 50:00
right, right. I have to tell you, um, hold on one second. My wife asked me a question. Sorry. So I get them the mica thing. She might have seen that and just been like, oh, the kids honeymooning. This isn't reasonable. But she sees Caleb's. And is he is he from an 11? To a seven or attend to us? Yeah. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 50:22
Did you

Scott Benner 50:23
get the talk? Like you're making him love a lot talk? Is that the next Oh,

Katie 50:28
she was just like, onboard. She's like, what are you doing? Tell me everything. What? What changed? Wow, what changed? Because the last time I seen you, you were struggling. We were getting ready. Like I was setting up an appointment to see like the diabetic psychologists do everything like you are in a whole different space, what's going on?

Scott Benner 50:48
There, we're gonna send them to a psychiatrist,

Katie 50:51
like our family, like the therapy for like burnout, because we were just not getting anywhere.

Unknown Speaker 50:55
Right. Wow.

Unknown Speaker 50:57
And

Scott Benner 50:58
Geez, you were close. See? It's interesting, because you were close to if you go to therapy, then not that you shouldn't have. But if you do now, that's like now you've said, this is the problem, right? Like we burn out. If we can't do this, that's a problem. This problem needs to be fixed. And you start putting effort into fixing what you think is the problem. But the problem is just a side effect of not understanding how the insulin works. Right. Oh, wow. You were close to falling off a cliff there that you might not have gotten back up from? That's really interesting. Wow, this makes me feel nice. I'm happy for you. Yeah. This is very good. Wow, how long ago was that?

Katie 51:43
So that was so that initial one that was last, I guess. But like this last we had a telehealth one. What was it in March? Okay. Caleb is at oh my gosh, 5.8. Wow. And it comes to a point now where when she comes in, for the thing, she asked me, is it okay, if you want to change this Basal rate? It's okay. Are you okay? If we change these things?

Scott Benner 52:08
Let me just ask you, your thoughts on this. A little bit has to be, I don't want to say embarrassed, right? But there's got to be a part of it. It's gotta be like, Wow.

Katie 52:19
It's funny, cuz she's just like, I wish I could just bottle up what you do and give it to my other patients. And I was like, suggest the podcast.

Scott Benner 52:27
Yeah. Tell her I can talk them up and sit in a corner? I'll tell them for sure. Yeah, seriously, I like that, that makes me feel like I would love to. I would love to be able to do that. I would love there to be a talk at a hospital. And I could just give that first hour, answer some questions and then point people towards the episodes that would support it. I don't think that everybody would get it, get it right away. But I don't think that that many people would not get something from it. You know what I mean? You're always very kind online. Like saying, like tagging me and stuff. And I really appreciate that. But it's because it gets then I get the watch. Like you just talked about. Your son had diabetes, basically for eight years. For seven of them. He's it's just a disaster. Like, it really isn't. Things are going completely wrong. You take the bull by the horns when when Mike is diagnosed, and really you change everything. Like it's easy to sit here and be like the podcast, the podcast, but you decided to do something. And then you found something. It could have been something else, like you could easily be, you know, somewhere else right now saying like, Oh, thank you. I mean, obviously, this is the best place. That's not what I'm saying. But, but as long as you find something that's, that's really wonderful. Do you I want to know how it's changed your life. Like personally,

Katie 53:53
personally, at first, I was a little stressed because I was constantly kind of obsessing over looking at everything, but now I feel like even though diabetes is such a big part of my life with two diabetics and everything that goes into it, I don't think about it as hard. Like when I see a blood sugar rising, it doesn't stress me out as much because I know I can get it back. Right? I know that even if because those days like I'm not a super ninja yet. There's days where Caleb might get to a 200 if I didn't nail something but instead of being that old person that I was where I would wait two hours, like I know I can get it back and I get it back quickly.

Scott Benner 54:31
Yeah. Arden's blood sugar goes up and down. And we deal with it the way we deal with it, you know, as best we can last night. You know, we're all just sort of feels like we're all just laying around the house at this point, you know. So, like, both of my wife and I are able to work from home which is really lucky. And, you know, artists, it's summer vacation now. So last night, I think I said around like seven o'clock, I think our washers going which is just No, I had this conversation with my son where he's like, what's the big deal? I'm like you don't understand. Like, no one wants to buy a washing machine. It's just the saddest thing to do with your money, you know. But I, I felt like I had to go out to a store to look at a couple of them. I tried to do it online as best I could. So I laughed and Kelly's like, would you grab some soup and bring soup back for everybody? And I was like, Yeah, whatever. So I brought the soup back. And Arden's blood sugar was great, like, for a long time, you know, after the meal and everything. But she started to get low later at night, like, I think 1130 she started dipping down, and we thought we stopped it. But we didn't. And so we were kind of trying to just nudge it with some carbs. But we were trying not to give her too much. And then finally, she had to have a few more. So there was a moment in their blood sugar kind of dipped down into the 60s, and we got it back up. And now I'm trying to get it back up without it getting, you know, high. And I did. And I can remember being you and thinking, Oh great. She's low. And now she's going to be high. And I'm going to be up all night. And then that all starts to like build on itself and you get upset and anxious. And then there's no way they don't feel that you know, but last night, I was just like trying, we were joking around, like you know, and and fixing your blood sugar. She asked me for a little ice cream, like little frozen ice cream cones. They're probably not really ice cream. But you know what I mean? They're, they're in the freezer. And we came I came up in the top of the roundness of the cone was offset on the cone itself. So it was way off to the side. And I handed it to her. And she said my ice cream cone appears to have Spina Bifida. And I went wide. And then we like I was like, oh, there's something up with it. Like we're like nudging the top of it back again to the center. And then she ate it and leveled out exactly where I thought, you know, her blood sugar's 103 right now 12 hours later. So it does get easier once you have enough experiences over and over again. So you really feel like you're sort of in the beginning of it, but you're doing Did you ever limit carbs? Like you're talking about a one season a fives?

Katie 57:08
Um, so no, I don't like when we did that plan. I kind of let it go. Because I felt like he was pushing back. So he gets what he wants. See? Wow,

Scott Benner 57:16
that's so cool. And he can maintain this with grandma just as easily as

Katie 57:20
Yes, because well, now at this point, like he doesn't go karma so much in Marcos. He's now in middle school. And I work at the same school. So we go and we live together. So it's a lot of text communication. And mica goes to daycare. So when well, pre COVID he went to daycare, but she'll text me and sometimes he'll kind of a little but for the most part, it's not that you were

Scott Benner 57:43
able to handle the daycare to do text with them is that I handled? Yep. So

Katie 57:47
she'll text me back and forth. her grandma does when she's got him too, because he kind of splits between a couple days a week daycare a couple days a week, grandma

Scott Benner 57:55
got it. Dexcom Dexcom is amazing. All the pods amazing. I love Arden's meter, you know I that's why they're all advertisers. But if I could take text messaging as an advertiser, I would tell you that it's an amazing diabetes tools, just being able to text with somebody and have more immediate interactions so that you can kind of stay fluid with the blood sugar while it's doing what it's doing. It's trying to be variable, and you can stay with it. I'm very happy for you. Anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to? This was really great. You were nervous, right?

Katie 58:28
I was nervous. I it's kind of funny. I don't do well talking to adults, even though I work with middle schoolers, and they're super judgy. And I'm fine with that.

Scott Benner 58:37
Do you imagine this means that I'm not really an adult? I'm perfectly comfortable. While we're doing this, I realize what you're saying. And I hear you. I'm sort of like a child. No, seriously, did we miss anything?

Katie 58:50
I don't think so. I just want to say that, you know, if you feel like you're in that spot of burnout, just get help. I feel like I should have gotten help a long time ago before all of this. But once again, everything happens for a reason. And guess where we're at now.

Scott Benner 59:06
I have to agree with you, I guess wherever and when you're struggling. I was saying the other day to some By the way, the entire time we've been doing this. I've been looking at Katie and there's a giant trolls that are behind you. And I have not been able to not see it for like an hour. And at first I was just like, what is that? And then I started figuring out I'm like, but it looks huge.

Unknown Speaker 59:26
Is it huge?

Katie 59:27
It is huge. This is our random room down here. And it's an office and a twice storage place.

Unknown Speaker 59:34
It's really big. And the sun's coming through the windows hairs all lit up. And

Katie 59:40
it was funny because it was just storming a little bit before we got on it was like pitch dark and stormy. Yeah,

Scott Benner 59:47
I I'm sorry. It was what I was gonna say is that I really believe. Obviously, nobody's perfect in any walk of life, right. So while you're running around day to day feeling like I'm doing great. There are things you're doing that are not right. Right, like they're or they could be better or, you know, I sometimes think, you know, in interpersonal relationships, you feel like, oh, we're good. But the other person might be thinking something. And there's a better maybe there's better than what good is, and we don't know, we get really comfortable with where we are. It's hard to talk to people, it's hard to ask for help. But this is just it's such a big deal. Like you can't, you really just can't ignore things and, and be and you know, your numbers are bigger. So they sound kind of more crazy 10 and 11, or whatnot. But the truth is, is that if you're a one c sitting at, I don't know, at an eight, or seven and a half like you, there's better. And it's not that it's not it's not any harder to be seven and a half, or eight and a half. It's no no, it's not it's not a ton more work to be six and a half versus seven and a half, like I mean, look at you. You're in the fives from 10. It's, it's insane. I really, I don't even know what to say. Like when you said that. It's crazy. Congratulations, I guess.

Katie 1:01:08
Thank you. Honestly, I would have never thought that we would be here. So it's such a good feeling to know that we can do it. And then as my boys get older, that they'll be able to do it.

Scott Benner 1:01:19
I'm glad. I'm really glad for all of you. I'm I hope we stay in touch over the years because I'd like to know. I'd like to maybe get one of those. Get get one of those kids older and get them on the podcast in a couple of years. And I'd love to know about that. It's really interesting. It really is. Can you hang on for a second? I have a question for you. That has nothing to do with this podcast. Okay, good. Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:40
Thank you for having me course.

Scott Benner 1:01:41
A huge thank you to one of today's sponsors, g Vogue glucagon, find out more about chivo hypo Penn at G Vogue glucagon.com Ford slash juicebox. you spell that GVOKEGL Uc, ag o n.com. forward slash juice box. And of course the Contour Next One blood glucose meter. Check them out with the links that are in your show notes of your podcast player, or there's links at Juicebox Podcast comm if you can't remember Contour Next one.com forward slash juice box. And of course that T one D exchange is that T one v exchange.org. forward slash juicebox.

Thank you so much for choosing the Juicebox Podcast. I'll be back soon with more episodes just for you. And a special shout out to all of you that take the time to put up those great reviews and ratings wherever you're listening. And of course, a special special thanks to everyone who shares the show with someone else. You're helping it to grow every day. It's absolutely fantastic of you to do and I could never say thank you enough.