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DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:01
Hello friends and welcome to Episode 421 of the Juicebox Podcast. On today's show, Rachel is here she's a type one who's a CDE. And she's a Australian. Yeah, I mean, right. Okay, well, that was awkward. Let's get to the rest of it.

I don't think I've left this much in a long time while interviewing someone for the podcast, Rachel Baker is fantastic. She brings a perspective, that's a little different, but not as different as you would think. And she has a lot of great insights about a number of the things that we talked about here on the podcast. This episode was both fun and insightful. Thanks to Rachel. Please remember, while you're listening that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin. Before the end of the year gets here, I'd like to remind you that by visiting T one D exchange forward slash juicebox, you'd be supporting the podcast and Type One Diabetes Research. So if you have a cell phone or a computer, and you have a few minutes, and you live in the United States of America, and you have type one diabetes, or love someone who does swing on by and see what you can do, join the registry support the podcast support research.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the tubeless insulin pump that my daughter has been wearing. Since she was four years old, Omni pod on the pod, we'd love to send you a free, no obligation demo, all you have to do to get it is go to my Omni pod.com forward slash Juicebox Podcast show up in your mailbox after you go to the website and fill out the stuff. And to learn more about the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor dexcom.com forward slash juice box. That's it. Links to all of the advertisers are right there in the show notes of your podcast player. And it Juicebox Podcast calm. Let's get going.

Rachel Baker 2:27
My name is Rachel Baker. I'm a credential diabetes educator that works in Brisbane, in Australia. I myself have type one diabetes and have done so for 13 years. So relatively a baby, I would say I'm just about to study my nurse practitioners in diabetes education and I just love the flexible approach to managing type one.

Scott Benner 2:51
So you got a very, very quick response for me, because you said that in your work, you talk to people in similar ways that we talked on the podcast and I'm very interested in that idea. So I got back to you very quickly. And so I want to pick through that a little bit. But first, let me think 13 years 2005 2000

Rachel Baker 3:13
Oh, hang on. Maybe I've done wrong now. Maybe I'm wrong. He doesn't seven, seven.

Scott Benner 3:23
So we have our new babies. Oh, no. You know what I just did. That was interesting. Sorry. Arden was born in 2004. You said 13 years, which seemed like one year less than Arden has had diabetes. So I said 2005 even though Arden wasn't diagnosed until 2006, which would have made me say 2007. So I sometimes confuse the year she was born with the year she was diagnosed. And I've just done it there.

Unknown Speaker 3:48
Okay, good.

Scott Benner 3:48
So let me just start over again. I was gonna say So Rachel, were you diagnosed in 2007?

Rachel Baker 3:54
Yes, that's great. That's amazing. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:59
It's interesting. It's in that middle ground. It's a shorter compared to some people but very long time to have type one diabetes.

Rachel Baker 4:08
Yeah, I do feel in that middle ground. I feel like I'm in that middle ground.

Scott Benner 4:12
Yeah, right. Like you're like you're you're ready for your second contract. But you're not gonna make the big money. Not yet. You don't even like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you've proven yourself and you get to stay a little longer. But you're not an all star yet.

Rachel Baker 4:29
Exactly that exactly. That you guys even

Scott Benner 4:31
have sports or you guys just get on this kangaroos and ride them around with a stick.

Unknown Speaker 4:37
Now we've got we've got Australian football.

Scott Benner 4:40
Did those things really fight? Do you ever see them like you're outside? You're like there's a kangaroo beaten up a mailbox or anything like that. Nothing like that ever. Really?

Rachel Baker 4:48
Yeah. I mean, I mean, not a mailbox but yeah, kangaroos to other kangaroos. Yeah, sure. Yeah. If you're out if you're out out rural. Yep.

Scott Benner 4:56
How can that happen? That Instagram is not just filled with that. If I lived in Australia, my Instagram would just be videos of kangaroos get out of each other. We have the UFC down here for marsupial's. Everyone luck, and I have the most popular Instagram ever. I don't know, somebody's got to get on it. Anyway. So 13 years, but Australia and Australia is really interesting. And as I told you right before we started recording, you're the third person from Australia. I've recorded with this in like seven days, your health care system, and what's available there for you has been very kind of stringent. And but it's getting better, but it's getting better for cash patients. Right. Is that the extent so far?

Rachel Baker 5:42
Huh? Yeah, I mean, pretty much. I mean, I mean, I find it very interesting comparing out health care, I guess, accessibility with diabetes compared to overseas. Because I feel like we're always a couple of steps behind. My passion is in technology and all the different types of therapies. So my number one thing that I do is constantly stay up to date with what's being released. But you're right in saying it feels like particularly with CGM. And I think you've mentioned this a lot on your podcast, and I truly believe CGM is the game changer. Whether you've got a pump or not, I think a pump is excellent. But CGM, for me. And in my clinical experience is the game changer. But if you're in Australia, you can only get subsidized CGM. If you're under 21. If you're planning pregnancy when you're pregnant, or you're over 21, and you have a concession card, so you're reaching a sort of a low income, or you're achieving a low income that enables you to access it. But otherwise, I mean, if you want to run the Dexcom system, it is it is about five grand per year.

Scott Benner 6:45
Hmm, that's $5,000 a year. That is just a lot of money for most, most everybody, you know, of course, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, and at the same time, if you really knew, if you really knew, and you had $5,000 that you could shave out of your budget somewhere. You do it, you know, you and I see, I see people do those things all the time. Make make this you know, it's funny, I was gonna say concessions, because you said concession card, and I'm still not sure why it's called a concessions card. But we'll get back to that. What is the concession that you can't afford it?

Rachel Baker 7:20
Yeah, so you can have a healthcare card or a concession card. But basically, the government deems you to be in a certain threshold in terms of the income or if you're a full time student. So if you're in high school,

Scott Benner 7:33
you know, I don't want to fall down a rabbit hole this early in an episode. But concession means the same thing in Australia that it does everywhere else, right. Like, I would think so with your media, a confession, like Like, if you and I started, let's say we're married. And you point out something about me that is wrong. And I disagree with it. And eventually, through just browbeating and constant torture, I make the concession that you're correct. We're understanding the word concession correctly. Right.

Rachel Baker 8:04
You know, it's interesting, because yes, that is that is the meaning of the word, but I'm so used to associating it with a concession and a healthcare card that I've actually forgot that that is the meaning of the word. I associated with a certain a certain income bracket.

Scott Benner 8:18
It's funny, because then there's there's either a definition for it that I don't know, or the idea is that the the government of Australia is conceding that you can't afford your health care. I okay, this doesn't matter. But it really seriously, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm like, let's let's pick this word apart a little longer. It just really doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm gonna get past it. It's a concession card. And, and so but under, isn't it interesting how this works? When they put it into play for you? It's if you're under 21. So my thought there is they're saying a child. So they're saying, look, we don't want kids to suffer low blood sugar incidences, so we'll let them have it. Which is a complete undervaluing of what CGM does. And then they say if you're pregnant, because of course, you have to have a great agency while you're pregnant for the baby. But what about everyone else? Like, like, why is it not important for everyone else to have that level of health and outcome? You know what I mean, I know it's money, but still, it's it's a weird place to draw the line, I think.

Rachel Baker 9:30
Yeah, yeah, I work a lot with adolescents in that teenage years as they trician transition to their adulthood. And you know, 21 is the year that they're finishing uni and moving out of home. They're trying to get their first job, and it's awful when they hit that as soon as they have their 21st birthday, it's taken away, and they lose that subsidy. And they're not in a position, usually, you know, most of the time at that age of 21 to fork out an extra five grand a year on their diabetes. And that's of course, you know, that's on top of all the insulin and I'd count for anything else like that. So yeah, it is it is a huge issue that we're facing. But I mean, in the defense of the government each year, they are providing us with greater subsidies. So the pregnancy aspect is new. But like you mentioned with pregnancy, I have this real. I don't know what a complex with how tight we manage during pregnancy. And of course, I love that, you know, I love I love running tight. But why do we do that? When it's at the cost of another human being, you know, you're growing this fetus, you know, into utero? Why are we so good at managing diabetes so tightly when there's another life on the line? But if it's just your own life and your own diabetes, we seem to be Oh, that's fine. You know, a little bit Lexi Daisy, and we actually completely adjust the targets. So I don't understand why we have that double standard between pregnancy and just everyday management.

Scott Benner 10:53
It's confounding, isn't it? It really is that the same doctor who's telling you, you have to have this, this is what needs to be, this is what health looks like, the baby comes like, you know, slipping sliding out and it's out, then you show back up at your window. And they're like, Alright, well, back to whatever. Good for you.

Unknown Speaker 11:12
Yeah, you're gonna

Scott Benner 11:14
support it with saying things like, you know, there's a lot going on with the baby right now and you're tired and everything you don't want to burn out. Like it's always that you don't want to burn out. And I I really think that you can boil it down to the timing of the insulin right? Like you have to like having to think about Pre-Bolus Singh at a meal is a really strange thing. And if you can't get it into such practice that it just becomes common for you. And you don't think about it and and i don't see it happen for everybody. I don't even see it happening on home. Like I'm the one yelling Pre-Bolus all the time. And, and, you know, any problem that my wife ever has, while she's managing my daughter, it stems from not Pre-Bolus like she does everything else exactly the way she should. But she works from home sometimes. So if she finds herself around Arden she's working. So she's not. And her work is different than mine. Mine's a little more. I don't know, artsy, I guess in a strange way. Like, you don't mean like I'm in and out of my head a lot. But But she's in her head constantly. She's sitting and thinking and writing and, and, or talking to someone she doesn't have time to be considering? Oh, we have to Pre-Bolus. And I forced myself. Yeah. And so I think there's something in there with that. Like, if you didn't have to think about that one aspect. I would think that the burnout rate would change. Because I'm about to head back on. If you did you follow the woman who I had on who I talked to her through every trimester of her pregnancy. Have you heard that?

Rachel Baker 12:55
Yes, yes. So the first few years? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

Scott Benner 12:58
she's coming back on soon. Because I said, Let's, let's do one a few months after you've had the baby, and you're out of your mind. Okay, I thought that would be fun. And you're already just like, what did we do? Why? Why did we do this? And I've seen, I haven't spoken to her, but I'm seeing on our social media that she looks a little tired, and that it's making her diabetes more difficult. And I think that's really what we're talking about. I can't wait to speak to her to find out exactly if, if that's how she feels. But that, from my perspective, is the most difficult thing. And then I think the doctors believe that that's true. And don't want to, again, burn you out. So then they start saying, well, let's just be a little more loose with it. But you said you really don't like that. Can you tell me why?

Rachel Baker 13:49
Yeah, I think I personally, I think there is a middle ground. And my goal always in my own personal diabetes, and my patients as well, is to find that middle ground, where you can run that, that sort of tight management, but not always hit that burnout. And I think it comes down to you know, you know, how you mentioned about your timing of the Bolus 100% I think you can have your dose bang on. But if you miss that timing, that's everything. You know, that's everything, all your hard work essentially, is completely thrown off. And I always say, you know, if you can just aim because Pre-Bolus thing is hard in real life. Pre-Bolus thing is hard. So if you can aim for at least 80% of your day, you know, or two out of three of your meals per day, just to reduce that post meal spike, at least, you know, two out of three times a day. I think we can find some sort of, of a happy medium of living a life where your diabetes isn't taking over. But then not having that complete roller coaster on your CGM CGM rod, but I do agree, you know, it sort of sounds like a throwaway comment. Oh, why can't we just aim as tight as we do in pregnancy for the rest of our lives? Yeah, well, of course that's going to be going to be hard work, but I think that I really think There's a way that you can sort of meet in the middle, and not be too stringent with your management to sort of find that happy medium and at the times that you're experiencing burnout, and this is sort of what I do with my patients, you know, at times you're going to be over diabetes. I think it's okay, you know, if you have a week where you just don't Pre-Bolus that, wait, that's okay. As long as you sort of recognize it, sit with it, and then you can sort of rebuild and move on from there.

Scott Benner 15:25
Yeah, I guess the most difficult part as a person is to not get stuck in that new normal that you make for yourself, like, I'm just gonna ease up this week, becomes I'm just gonna ease up this month becomes Well, in the spring, like you don't even like and yeah, and that happens to people all the time. It really is interesting. Because what you're battling against is it's, it's architecture of people, like it's, it's different types of how people's minds work. You know, you, all you do is look online at people who are like, super into fitness. Right? And they're just, you look at them, and you're like, they're chiseled out of stone, these people, you know, like, they, they're talking about micronutrients. And, and, and I don't know, if, if I follow them for a lifetime, if they'd always be doing that, but some people would be some people are just wired, like, that's what they care about first. And so they do it. And so I don't think that a person who doesn't think the Pre-Bolus or really struggles with remembering it is a is a bad person. I'm not saying that I'm saying that they're just, they're wired differently. Maybe they're just a little more, you know, fanciful in their minds, and things just kind of float away on them. And you know, they're more in the moment and not as structured. And then it's easy to just look back and say, well make yourself more structured, it's your health. But, you know, I can agree with academically, but you can't just change how you how you function. The real answer to all of this is insulin that works more quickly. And oh, yeah, that that fixes everybody's problem. If you take away an eating to Pre-Bolus a, I lose my podcast, but, but, but that's okay. I'll be I'll be tired of it by that anyway. But it just changes everything. If you could eat and Bolus at the same time and have the same results you did is Pre-Bolus Singh and eating. It would change diabetes. You know? Yeah. Well, that's I mean, you really need a magic wand or you could just traipse out there into the whatever that is there where you guys live and find some bugs that we haven't discovered yet. And milk it Did you see that? Did you see that thing recently? The venom of something they're looking at for as insulin. What the hell Jenny sent it to me snail venom?

Rachel Baker 17:44
Hey, oh, did you see? Was it as usual? No, I didn't see this thing about the snail sees

Scott Benner 17:51
that I'm used to create a new type of insulin that could provide a safer, more effective treatment for type one diabetes. I don't know maybe, obviously.

Unknown Speaker 17:58
I didn't even click on it. I didn't click on it. I just saw it. I was like, No,

Scott Benner 18:02
because I saw it and thought the same thing. And then Jenny was like, emailing it to me. She's like, wouldn't this be fun? And I was like, Yes, Jenny would be very fun if cone snail spray insulin venom. Oh, here it is cone snails spray insulin venom into the water to lower the blood sugar of fish. Oh, the snail uses the insulin to slow so it makes the blood sugar low of the things around it so that it can either escape or attack it. And it's, it works more quickly. This snail insulin is faster acting than regular human insulin and quote ready to go. So what Wow, so so right now Rachel, quit your job and start raising cone snails. You're gonna be rich.

Rachel Baker 18:45
I'm gonna start putting that on my pump. I'm gonna get some snow you're gonna

Scott Benner 18:48
need you're gonna need a lot of them. And right. You know, a little quick thing. A little question to the Daily Mail. Why are the women on your website naked all the time? Jesus. I'm trying to find out about snails. Adam, there's a girl with a mink coat and it's not dressed. What is that? That's not the news. United Kingdom. That's pornography. My goodness.

Unknown Speaker 19:11
Jesus,

Scott Benner 19:13
that took me by surprise. That curl was like from the 70s Oh my gosh. Anyway, whoo. Sorry. I don't know that snail venom is, is the answer. But I love that people are now looking into it. Anyway. So you're teaching in first time we understand you. You are a CDE. And does that mean the same thing that it does here in America? Like, is there a doctor in the practice but you're doing most of the work?

Rachel Baker 19:45
Exactly. No, we got we got an excellent team of doctors. I work in the public in the private space. So I work in it. You know, sort of a large diabetes Hospital Center and then I also work privately and it's You know, there's a bit of different level of autonomy between the roles. Of course, privately, I'm just consulting the patients, and then just reporting back to me in the chronology. But I guess in the in the public base, it is more of a team team effort. But yeah, my answer to that question is yes.

Scott Benner 20:20
So I come in as a person with diabetes. I have my my visit I see you mostly Is that right? Is the doctor coming to see me at all? Or is it you? During the visit? You

Rachel Baker 20:31
know, interesting. Interestingly, it depends on the age depends on the age. So if you are coming into the adolescent, clinic, you know, the younger adult clinic or even you know, yeah, I mean, pediatrics is a lot more work with the parents. But if you're in the adolescent or the transition clinic, you spend a lot of time with the educator. And then of course, you have the psychologist and the dietitian as well. And then you'll have a little bit of time with a doctor, but more so your time is spent with the educator. But when they hit that adult space, it's quite the opposite. They don't really want to see the educator, they sort of just want to go in, see the doctor, they know what they know, get their scripts, and then go on,

Scott Benner 21:11
you really turn into more of the nice lady with the prescription pad, and then yesterday to get in and out. Now. Yeah. Is that from? What's my question here? Do we just make a concession that some adults have just fallen into a pattern and we can't help them anymore? So we just support them along the way they've decided to manage themselves? Or are you still trying to improve things for them? Because that's an interesting thing. Because adults can be very good at, at coming in. And, you know, what do I want to say, you know, presenting a story that they think you're going to accept, and it'll sound good enough to you that you let it go, but they may still be struggling? Is there less of the, of the picking through the situation and trying to help than there is with kids?

Rachel Baker 22:04
I think so I think because if you haven't got that level of engagement, it's hard. You know, it's hard, they really sometimes are not willing to sit and have a conversation about their diabetes. And it can be on two ends of the spectrum. Either one, they present this beautiful story, yeah, everything's fine. You know, I'm okay. You know, I changed my insulin cartridge. And every seven days, change my cannabis in those, but I'm fine you having fun? Or, you know, they just got to HBO, up in the 10s. Or it's gonna be the other way. And then there and then really want your help, you know, and then really ready to engage. But I would say more. So option A moreso, Option A, as you described, if they're absolutely at breaking point, no, I guess it's when they do that for a couple years. And then eventually, they sort of come back in and they're a breaking point, then they're, then they're ready to have a conversation.

Scott Benner 22:57
So that's what you're finding too is that, so do some people never, quote unquote, break. And by that, I mean, come to the realization that they need to do something more than they're doing just some people just cruise to the end with just whatever is just keeping them alive. But, but some people just have that, like, come to Jesus kind of moment was like, I have to do something about this. Is that basically how it goes?

Rachel Baker 23:23
Yeah. That is, yeah, yeah, that really is it is exactly like that.

Scott Benner 23:28
What do you see a difference? Between I know, this is a huge generalization. But do you see a difference between the person who's just okay with my a one sees nine? I, this is all I'm willing to do? And the people who have that moment? Is that a health scare? Or what? Was there something specific that pushes them? What do you see? I'm sure there's varying.

Rachel Baker 23:53
Yeah, yeah, I think it is either a health scare, or often they sort of present as in, I can't feel like this anymore, in terms of how tired or how exhausted they are. And I think it comes to a point where it all piles up in their body, you know, see running with a glucose, you know, up in a higher range for that period of time. I think eventually, they just sort of think, you know, what, I've had enough of feeling like this. And, and they sort of hit a turning point. You know, sometimes it can be something you know, they've gone through a divorce or something big happens in their life. But often, I think they just come in and they just feel like I've had enough, you know, I'm at breaking point and I've had enough and I need to change. Okay.

Scott Benner 24:36
Yeah. So, I see people doing it for others a lot. It's, it's it. It's always like, You know, I realize it's hurting my relationship or I want to be around for my children, or, like that kind of thing. Like there's always that. And it makes me wonder if there's not a way from the clinical side to create A relationship where they want to do it for you. And I'm gonna say something might be incredibly silly, but this is gonna sound weird, I guess. But my son's an incredible outfielder, you have baseball there, the guy you know, so he can, you know, it's fascinating how how good he is at catching a ball that is whacked around out of nowhere. Like if you and I stood next to him when the baseball was like struck, you know, 400 feet into a gap on a field, you and I would still be standing next to each other while he was handling the ball, catching the ball, we'd be like, I feel like Rachel. Wow, look, he ran all the way over there. That was amazing, wasn't it? You'd be like, did you even see the ball? I'd say No, I didn't. And and like, you know, like, that would be how it would go. But when he was young, and he was learning, he did it for his coach. When he was nine and 10 years old. I'd asked him like, how did you do that? And his his main, like, stressor, I guess was he didn't want to let this man down that he liked, who expected something from him. And it wasn't you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a crazy relationship was like you have to do this or, you know, you're off the team. They were little kids. But they had built a relationship together. And he didn't want to let the guy down. That was sort of it like he had he felt like he was I don't know what the word is responsible to someone other than himself. Or I don't know what that is. But I wonder about that a lot. If, you know, maybe the things that we ask people to do, aren't always reasonable, like, go catch it for yourself, make your make your ANC six, do it for you. A lot of people have self esteem issues and doing things for themselves is difficult. You know what I mean? And like, I don't know, I don't know if there's a way to build a team mentality into it or not. But I sometimes think the podcast does that a little bit? You know, I, I would say that in the beginning of the podcast, it flew in the face of what people thought of is how to share online. You know, there used to be I'm sure there still is. But I don't pay much attention to it. The idea of like, don't tell people your successes that will make them feel bad. And I don't buy into that I think your success should be looked at as possibility not as a winning and losing scenario. It's not like I succeeded, and you didn't, it's I succeeded, and you could look, it's possible that person is doing it. If that person can do it. You could do it. I don't know. I think there's something to that. Yeah, anyway.

Rachel Baker 27:42
Yeah. But listening to your podcast. That's what I, you know, took away from it way right back, like right back at the start. I was new to a CGM. You know, I was totally This is right back when I was starting my diabetes education course. Prior to that, I was I was a nurse and emergency and I never sort of specialized in diabetes. And I started using CGM. And you know, when you start with a CGM, and you see that rollercoaster, and you think there's got to be a way that this can be done differently, you know, and you try to talk to you diabetes team about it, but they get sort of a little bit stuck on insulin to carb ratio, insulin sensitivity factor. But listening to your podcast, gives you that ability to see that as another way, you know, and you're not the only one thinking it because I mean, how many people you don't look at, look at how many followers you've got now on this podcast, or how many listeners? Everyone can sort of, well, not everyone, but I guess it depends on if I've got that motivation. But if you can see that there's another way to manage your diabetes. And if you hear someone else achieve those results, it's it's inspirational, you want to do it, you know, you want to go after it because it feels possible.

Scott Benner 28:58
In the middle of this holiday season, while you're doing things for other people, don't forget to do something good for yourself. The easiest thing that I can think of, is to go to my omnipod.com forward slash juice box, fill out the tiniest bit of information. And to have on the pod send you a free, no obligation demo of the Omni pod to listens on top. That way when you get it, you can try it on or put it on your kid. So you can see what it's like. I just wore a Dexcom CGM for 10 days. forgot it was there and I've worn it on the pod in the past. Same thing happened to me. You just don't notice it after a little while. But that may be hard for you to believe. If you never try. Well, this is your opportunity to try try for free. Try with no obligation and it's a non functioning pod so there's nothing to worry about. You just put it on to get a feel for my omnipod.com forward slash juice box. If you're MDI right now and thinking about getting a pump, I think tubeless is the way Way to go. And if you're using another tube pump and you're thinking, I would like one without tubing? Well, one exists. And this is an easy way for you to see if it's right for you. The Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor is fantastic for anyone using insulin, because you get to see the impact that food has on your blood sugar. And then you get to see how fast it moves in different directions. Just to make your blood sugar go up, does it go up fast? Is that as fast as eating an orange? Huh? Who would know? Well, I would know. And so Would everyone else who's ever want a Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, you owe it to yourself. If you're using insulin without a Dexcom, you're flying blind. Having a Dexcom is like having a co pilot on both sides of you. And one sitting on your head. Three co pilots, which I guess goes against the word co pilots, you'd have to call them try pilots. But now we're really getting off the subject. My point is, is that being able to see the direction and speed of blood sugar is monumental. And being able to get an alert that lets you know if you've left the range that you've set. That is the whole ballgame right there. Dexcom also allows you to share blood sugars with up to 10 followers. So that could be your spouse, your kid, your grandma, whoever you want. There's 10 of them, though. So you're probably give it to your school nurse if you wanted to. Or even if you've got like a well meaning neighbor, I'm kidding about that. But you could if you wanted to say you were the person with this neighbor that was like, Oh my god, this is greatest guy in the world, he could help me with my blood sugar, boom done. Android and iPhone. So that pretty much covers everyone holding the cell phone and everyone holding the cell phone pretty much covers everybody alive. It's worth checking out. And you can@dexcom.com forward slash juice box. If you want to learn more, you just fill out the little form at the bottom. If you currently get your insurance to the US military VA, you might really like what you hear. So go check it out. dexcom.com forward slash juice box, use the same continuous glucose monitor that my daughter does. And please don't forget T one d exchange.org. forward slash juicebox. Add your name to the registry help Type One Diabetes Research while supporting the podcast. Alright, let's get back to Rachel because there's a lot more coming.

I agree. I really do. I think Thank you. I'm glad it I'm glad it ended up being valuable for you. But I just can't I couldn't agree more like I don't hide success and nobody knows what it looks like. You mean like there's nothing to aspire to if there's nothing to aspire to. And so while everyone else is doing everyone who's doing well is just hiding because they don't want to quote unquote make anybody feel bad like well, these people already feel badly. They're a one Cesar eight and a half and they're spiking to 300 after every meal, they feel as badly as they're gonna feel, you know. And yeah, and I don't buy into that argument that, you know, there'll be somebody out there that can't handle seeing it. And and I don't disbelieve that, I do think there'll be somebody you know, that will look and it'll just be too much for them. But you say you're going to overwhelm one out of 10 people or 10 out of 100 people, and those people are going to be really hurt by seeing someone else's success. You can't ignore the 90 out of 100 people who may not be hurt by it, like why do we all? I mean, you don't want to leave anybody behind. And I don't think the podcast does leave people behind. I think even those 10 people who are gonna be like, Oh my gosh, like, this is impossible. And here's even more proof. It's impossible. I'm bad at this, and they're good at it. I think if they try the podcast, they'll find out that it could be them as well. You know,

Rachel Baker 34:14
yeah, yeah. And if I've got, you know, I've got my, I wear Dexcom. And I've got it running to my watch. And often I'll show patience. You know, I look you know, you can have your Dexcom run to your watch. You know, this is people that are considering CGM. And let's say the day that I've got a beautiful, lovely flatlines a dream. It's interesting to see their reactions. It's exactly as you said, they are they sit and they go, Oh, my goodness, you know, how do you keep yourself running steady for that period of time, and they're inspired by it? Or the reaction is, I could never do that. You know, you're a completely different person. To me. You're a diabetes educator. That's why you've got your nice steady flatline. So they create a disconnect between the difference of them to me, you know, and then I try and Sit for the next hour to break down that disparity that No, no, we're both just to, you know, normal people.

Scott Benner 35:08
And you have much as an opportunity to achieve a flatline as I do you know what I mean? And that's self esteem and self confidence. And the goal then is to show them. Look, I don't I'm not special, like, I just know a couple of things you don't know. But here's the good news. I can tell them to you, you know, and they're not Yeah, it's not, it's not gonna be trigonometry. Don't worry, it's, and that's the other problem is that they believe it's so completely, like, numbers oriented, and you're either a numbers person, or you're not. I've heard people talk about diabetes and such basic ways, like, Well, I'm not a numbers person, I can't do it. And I say to them, Look, this podcast exists for a number of reasons. One of them is because I don't like math. And you know, and one of the other reasons is, I don't want to count carbs. And another reason is, you know, like, there's all kinds of reasons why, like, This podcast is a is a, you know, it's the child of my laziness, basically, like, is things that people told me diabetes was, and I was like, I don't want to do that. But I don't want my daughter to be unhealthy. So couldn't there just be another way? And yeah, and those ways are really exciting to me. They're explainable. So are you? I'm not trying to take credit here. I'm really I'm trying to understand, are you? Are you using some of the things? Well, I guess, for the first question has to be how much of the podcast you use in your personal life?

Rachel Baker 36:33
A lot? A lot? A lot? Yeah, yeah, a lot. And I think it's a combination, you know, it is very similar to bumping in nudgee, using that sort of content, and then just personal experience, you know, I'm not afraid of, Okay, last time I was food, I went home. So I'm going to put an extra insurance time in, I'm not going to sit and count the carbohydrates of it. But I'm going to throw in an extra two units, because I know that I need it. And then I think listening to the podcast, gives me that push to do it. And then I think when I entered into being a diabetes educator, it's scary to then relay that to your patients, you know, because it's one thing for me to say, Oh, I'm happy to throw in an extra two units, but then to portray that to your pet or advise your patients. Okay, if you have that food next time, just throw in an extra couple of minutes, you know, see what happens, go with your gut, go with your diabetes, intuition, intuition, and see what happens. So I think I just kept coming back to the podcast is to listen, and to know that there's other diabetes in cars and other patients with type one, that confidently and safely can use those principles.

Scott Benner 37:45
Yeah, it was that part you just spoke about? That's where it happens. Like without that, it's useless to tell somebody because aside from being able to say to somebody just use more insulin, what you're going to tell them is, and you said it earlier? Well, maybe the insulin to carb ratio for that meal is different. And it is, but are you now asking people to on Tuesdays when they make meatloaf believe that they have a different insulin to carb ratio than they do on Wednesday when they have a Caesar salad? And am I really supposed to think about all that for the rest of my life? Wouldn't it just be easier if on meatloaf night, my blood sugar got higher? And you know, like that kind of thing, which is why, which is why the way I try to talk on the podcast is is so fluid, which is you know, I just did it the other day somebody online in the private Facebook group was like, I don't know what the problem is here. I was like, You didn't use enough insulin. And they said, but my, my carb ratio work works great for other meals, I'm like, I don't care for that one, it didn't work. So more, how much more I don't know, more, try more, and see what happens and keep playing with it until you figure it out. And the and the decision to speak that honestly, with people. I think that when this podcast is over, and when I look back, that decision, just to be honest with people might end up being the most important thing that I did here. Because that's the moment where everyone else just says, I don't know, you know, maybe we should look at your ratios or, you know, they get they take it back to technical and technicals not what you need in that situation. Because Because everyone's not living in a petri dish, right? They have a life they're trying to go through. It's not all clinical. It's easy to talk about it clinically. And I want people to understand it clinically. It's why we talked about glycemic load index so much and you know, but that's not, that's not a fun thing to remember, in the middle of, you know, in the middle of a beach vacation where you're like, I'm gonna get french fries at the beach like, you don't want to sit around and go. I wonder what the glycemic load index are of these fries and you know, you just want to you just want your brand to go French fries more longer. Yeah.

Rachel Baker 40:04
Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, there's two, there's two things that I often have taken away from your podcast, that I often drill into my console. And the first one is, if you're home, you need more insulin. That's it. If you're low, we need less. So we could sit around here, you know, for half an hour, and try and figure out why you had that particular high. But like you said, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. We need more insurance. Let's do it and move on. And the second thing that you often talk about is, I think it was in one of your earlier podcast, you said, you know, I'm just, I'm just this guy. And I think, yeah, I look at the numbers, I see a number, and I don't have this big lot of emotion that's attached to it. You know, diabetes is such an emotional condition. Sometimes I just think because you know, the chronic nature of it, and how much it can sometimes wear you down, people can get so exhausted, and so emotionally attached to seeing those numbers each day. But if you can remove the emotion from it, and just look at a number and be like, Okay, I need more insulin here, or I need less, or I'm rising, let's work on this. It's a totally different. It feels like living with a totally different condition, when you can remove that emotional side from it.

Scott Benner 41:18
I'm glad you heard that. And I completely agree. Obviously, I said it. So it'd be weird if I didn't agree with it. I was just saying things in the back of my head going I don't think that at all. No, but I that sounds like something fun to say that the being the being disconnected from it is, is incredibly important. And it and I wasn't always there used to be times where I'd see a number and I was cursing sometimes out loud, sometimes just in my head. And I thought I screwed this up. It's and then it's a cascade, then I screwed this up. It's gonna hurt her she's gonna be Hi, this is you know, I knew it. Like I'm killing her, like, you know, like that whole stuff, just all that you have to stop your brain from doing that to you. You just you. You can't You can't let that happen. Because, listen, yes, the numbers not great. But no, I'm not killing her because her blood sugar went to 160. Right. So you know, I need to, the most important thing to do is to step back, see what happened, figure out how to fix it now. And how to keep it from happening next time, you know, is obviously the next step. But to feel badly about it is it's just madness. And it doesn't it's not going to stop it's going to make you crazier and crazier as it goes until your brain does you the ultimate kindness that a brain can do which is going to it's gonna make you stop worrying about it so that you don't make yourself crazy. And it's just it's a very human idea except, you know, not being upset that your neighbor cuts the lawn at 7am. like finding a way to let that go is different than letting go that your blood sugar's 200, after every meal that has real consequences. Yeah, and my neighbor is a lunatic in case you're wondering. So here's something really sad. I live across the street from people. And it's a weird mix. There's an old, a much older woman and what appears to be her nephew. But he's a grown man. He's older than I am. And they live together, which is already strange. But sometimes in the middle of the night, I am not making this up. You'll hear this metal snapping this just I can't do it. I don't have anything but it's just like, you hear this outside. And if you look, this woman in her 70s is outside on her knees with a pair of kitchen shears, cutting weeds. And that stabbing is the are the blades coming together? I don't want to make fun of people's mental illness. But I think there's something incredibly wrong.

Rachel Baker 44:02
That's the coping mechanism. Something's going on there.

Scott Benner 44:05
I said, Listen, no joking. At some point, her brain said I can't handle what I'm saying. Go take care of the week, didn't mean and I don't want that it's much different than I can't handle seeing these blood sugar's over and over and over again. I'm going to stop worrying about them. I'm going to let them go. Yep. And throw caught you know, you know, whatever people say to themselves, you know, I'll leave it up to you know, I'll leave it up to Jesus. So we'll see what happens, you know, and, you know, all the time I tell people, like, you know, I see people praying online about their budget and like, don't pray, Jesus doesn't have your meter. Just give yourself more insulin. Like, I'll tell you what your prayer you want. But I think if Jesus had EPDM in his hand, he'd be bolusing. So let's get to it. And so I don't know, I think there's something in there where it's simple to say. People need to be empowered, but that doesn't really yeah, that's Kind of a bullish statement like, right? Like it's a nice thing people say, and then some people are really good at it. And some people aren't you say, well, then you then you put it on the people aren't Well, I guess, you know, they didn't try hard enough, but that's not right. It's not about how hard you try. And there's no one with Type One Diabetes that wants to be unhealthy. That person doesn't exist, you know? Yeah. Anyway, so how do you help people, like, make these leaps? Like, I'm interested in some like, like real, like nuts and bolts, things? Like when people tell me they see good CDs, good doctors. I feel like you're one of them. So how do you end up being a a friendly person who gets people to places? What's the process?

Rachel Baker 45:45
I think, I think it comes from being a patient myself first, and having experienced the frustrations as a patient first, you know, some of my best consults and my most powerful or significant changes that come about is just by sitting, and listening, you know, and it sounds so basic. And it's like, you know, of course, right, of course, you just have to sit and listen to the patient and address their needs. But sometimes just sitting and listening to the struggles that they have, and validating them, and I just sit there, and I'm like, you know what, diabetes sucks. It just sucks. It's hard work, and it's annoying, and it sucks, and it's not gonna go away. And we might just sit there and have a conversation about all the things that we hate about diabetes, and how hard Some things are. And then that might be that's the console, you know, that's it, and they will walk away feeling better than they have ever felt walking away from appointment, you know, ever before. Just because they've had that time to sit and confront the feelings, you know, how you mentioned the talking in a way I often say you're putting your diabetes, you know, it's that can that can of beans and you're putting it at the father or father spot in your in your kitchen cupboard, you know, up in your kitchen cupboard, you've put it right at the back. And today, we're going to get up on the stool in your kitchen cupboard, in your pantry and get that can back out. Because it's so easy to just talk back the back of it, you do the bare minimum, keep yourself alive. But at one day, you know, I'm always going to be here. One day, we're going to pull that out and we're just going to open it, you know, and the day that you can open it, you can just sit and read confront it confront the thing that you're feeling, that's the day that you're gonna be able to move forward.

Scott Benner 47:25
I feel like you saw me buy pinto beans three weeks ago.

just soak beans overnight.

Rachel Baker 47:48
On the top shelf,

Scott Benner 47:49
I just I had such good intentions when I bought them. I was like No, I'm not. I'm just like, and I think I could do a really good job with them. Right? Like, I think I can make my own baked beans, basically. And then I looked at a recipe and I was like 12 hours soak them overnight. What are you talking about?

Unknown Speaker 48:07
Yeah, yeah, that's

Rachel Baker 48:08
a diabetes console, often that the diabetes comes up, people walk in, yeah, we change my calibration, I'm gonna do this and they walk away and they feel great. And the moment they walk out of the door, they don't often do any of the things, you know, they don't do any of the things because then they think that the 12 hours, you know, and then and then it sort of hits them in a reality and it's because they've never I think they I think you just need to front it and have have that conversation where you're gonna sit down and face that it's hard and it's not gonna be easy, and there's gonna be bumps in the road. And to that there's no such thing as perfection. I think that's something that keeps people with type one diabetes down is that I've got patients that will make huge progress, and then they'll come to me and they'll show me the report. And they'll be like, Oh, you know, I don't I don't think this is gonna be a good read. I don't think these reports are going to be too good to look at any look at it. And you know, it's good. You know, it's good. I don't know if they're expecting to have 100% time in range, or unicorn stable flatline CGM every day but I think just to be reminded that you're not that there's no such thing is perfect. You're not always going to have the perfect day. They need to be told that

Scott Benner 49:16
hey, Rachel, make the beans Leave me alone. Jesus. Just gonna donate them to a food kitchen or throw them away or something. But I mean, I guess pressure me like this. I'll take care of myself. Fine. Yeah. No, I think that's an it's very, very important that that to realize as a person who's trying to educate somebody about something, that it's not really something they're excited to hear about. And it's not something that sounds simple to them. And the traditional ways that it's been spoken about are confusing. And, and not exactly something that makes you want to go like yeah, I'm gonna do this. I you know, I when I'm speaking in public, and I look out into the audience, there is always a couple of old time diabetics out there, just like people who've been in the fight for a long time, you know, and they were there before glucose monitors, and probably they were there before decent insulin and decent meters and everything else. And every once in a while, I'll speak and I'll have somebody come up to me who's you know, in their 60s, they're like, this is just a revolution. I'm like, okay, you know, I'm, I've been doing it for a while, but I hear what you're saying, you know, and, and they're excited by it, and they hear it. But there are some people who just turn their nose up at it. Like, it's like it's fell. And they do not want to hear that, this thing that they that overwhelm them for so long and been so difficult. And it is as easy as I don't know, I would try more insulin here. If I was you. And they don't. It's, I think it I think it breaks their heart to hear it kind of in their reaction is just one that it's there to protect their psyche. Like the he's wrong. Because,

Rachel Baker 51:12
yeah, yeah, oh, he doesn't understand. He doesn't know this, right? It's more than that. Because if

Scott Benner 51:16
I'm right, then 30 years ago, someone could have just said that to them. There wasn't somebody saying these things 30 years ago, so it's not really possible, but it feels like a lot of wasted time. And I mean, I don't know about the rest of you. But here's a little insight to who I really am. wasted time is about the worst thing I can imagine. It really makes me upset. I don't like when people are. Like, if you ever been together with friends, you remember when people used to get together with friends. And there'd be people in rooms. I like your Australia, you guys probably aren't even afraid to COVID-19 right? Actually, just a bunch of criminals. prison populations are doing great with it. Because these people are probably they're around each other in such close quarters. Probably nothing makes them sick. But But nevertheless, I don't think everyone in Australia is a criminal. And let's move forward.

I think I've lost my train of thought. We can't do these things. So early in the morning for me, right? I was about to make a point of Ah, no, it was good. It was good. I think your brain is trying to save you. Do you know? You mean, because when you hear that your health has been the way it has been for so many decades? And there was an easier answer. I think that reality could break you. Do you know? I mean, like, I just don't i don't think it's good. I've spoken to people where I've watched it happen, where they just they're like, why did no one tell me this? And it's crushing? And I can't say that I blame them. You know, it's um, yeah, it's tough. So I, you know, I, I'll be the bad guy. Sometimes I'll stand up there and just go all right, yeah, you know, I'm wrong, it's fine. But some of those people have sway within the community. And that's when I don't, that's when it becomes dangerous for people moving forward when you're a person who's lived with diabetes for 30 years, either as a caregiver or as a person in in general, and you've got the ear of someone, and you start saying things like, Oh, you know, that's dangerous talk, you know, more insulin. What's that? You know, like, that's measurement, people are going to hurt themselves. People aren't hurting themselves. Now, whether a one sees is nine. Like, what's your point? Like? You really think if you're a one sees nine, that an extra unit somewhere is going to be the ruination of you. Do you know what I mean? Like the beginning of understanding that you need more insulin, and then you can see it happening? and say, oh, wow, I used to go to 180. But now I'm going to 160 I wonder what a little more of a do I wonder what a little more of a do I wonder what a little sooner would do and then you're there one day, it's just? Yeah, I want to say it's easy. But Rachel, isn't it kind of easy? You know what I mean? Once you start doing it, yeah.

Rachel Baker 54:09
Yeah. You know, I'm interested in SCADA. If this was, you know, we were talking back 2030 years ago. And I think what the concepts that you talked about, I think it matches the time that we're in, that's where our technology is at. And that's what we can do. But uh, we had this conversation before we had CGM. I don't think we'd be here. I don't think you'd have your podcast the same way that you have it now because I think this but because we have that CGM. We can be both, you know, so I don't know if people you know, maybe they might look back 30 years ago, they can't think that they've been ripped off because no one told them this. I think back to when I was a teenager and and i resent I resent how much I struggled as a teenager with With my type one, and how much I felt like, my medical team couldn't help me, you know, I felt like every time I went in, and everything's completely up and down and run around around, I felt like I left just feeling even more hopeless. because they'd be like, well, there's no patterns here. So I'm not too sure what what ratio or sensitivity factor I want to change. So let's not make any changes, and you go away and you monitor you five times a day for the next two weeks. And Simba You know, I think that was just something that happened every time. But I wonder if I had CGM back then would would I be doing what I'm doing now?

Scott Benner 55:37
question would be figure it out somehow. You really would. And yeah, and that's, listen, I hear you, you're 100%. Right, that if I, if I was in a time machine, and I started saying these things in the 70s people be like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know, I can't even see what my blood sugar is. I can't just give myself too much insulin, you know, that's how they would do it feel to them. But what I'm saying is that in present day, now that we know what we know, and have what we have, for someone to sit in roadblock of other people's happiness, in order to prevent someone else's psyche is a weird decision to make like, I don't want someone who's had diabetes for 40 years to feel badly. I'm not saying that. But that person is still alive now. And they can move forward in a different space. Like why do we keep pretending it's 1980? Is that it so that the person who lived through 1980 doesn't feel bad? What about all the people who are here in 2020? Who don't need to be living? Like it's 1980? Like there's, yeah, if I'm good at being dispassionate about the diabetes and the numbers. I'm also good about being dispassionate about that. Like, and and some people aren't, some people are so worried about protecting feelings, that they don't think about all the new people, they're hurting by talking about this thing. Like it's 30 years ago, that that's all I just yeah, that's how I yeah,

Rachel Baker 56:58
some people definitely stuck. Yeah, I'm 100%. Yeah, I made a lot of different educated endocrinologist. Look at all different disciplines that are just stuck. I agree that they're stuck in 1980. And they're not moving forward with with what we're learning.

Scott Benner 57:15
It's just there's so much good stuff that exists right now. It's, it's fascinating. It's fascinating to me that you'd want to ignore it or not learn it, or, or whatever other reasons happen, like I get for the people who are living with it. But I mean, if you're teaching someone, if you if you're teaching someone how to live with diabetes, and you see that there's a better way, and you don't know that way, I don't know how it's not your full force in life to figure out that new way so that you can help those people. I don't know how in good conscience, you keep telling people. All the information? That seems strange to me.

Rachel Baker 57:50
Yeah. I think I think they're just scared of the hypose. That's one thing that I it's a common thing. People are just scared of their patients having hypose.

Unknown Speaker 57:59
Yeah, I understand. Just,

Unknown Speaker 58:02
yeah, well, I

Scott Benner 58:03
mean, it, why are we not scared of the other part? I guess that doesn't make any sense. Ya know, we've chosen I heard someone say the other day, that they're, you know, obviously, I know, people say this in the community, medical community. But I haven't heard it in so long that it shocked me. My endo told me, it's better to be high than low. And now I'm listening to your podcast, and I don't know what to do. And I said, Well, I'm not your doctor. And I am not. I'm not even a doctor. I have no medical, you know, I'm not giving you any advice I was like, but all I can tell you is that I wake up every day. And the first thing that I think about diabetes is I'd rather stop a lower falling blood sugar than fight with a high one. Like, I have to remember that. Yeah, that's just that's got to be the first thought in your mind with diabetes. I'd rather I want to be down here. I want to be playing down here, not up here. And, you know, if if somebody has to have a juice box, or has to do something to stop a low, it is far better than fighting with highs. And by the way, don't make that your norm for the rest of your life. figure out why you're getting low and stop it at some point. But, you know, in a world where everyone gets low Anyway, why not get low? This is gonna sound weird, because I don't mean this exactly this way. I was gonna say why don't why not get low on purpose? I'm not saying that people are getting low on purpose. I'm saying I'd rather you don't I mean, if you're going to be super high, eventually you're going to over Bolus it and, and crashed down low and have no idea how much insulin is in you and be in a complete just freefall that starts to eat the kitchen situation that throws you onto the roller coaster, you know, so why not just be at and go oh, it's Yeah, it's not working out this one time. I'm 65 before bad I'm gonna have to do something. You know, like, that's, yeah, that just makes that just makes sense to me. You know, I don't know. I'm glad it makes sense to you.

Rachel Baker 1:00:02
Yeah, no. But people when they're on that roller coaster, you're never on the roller coaster and they're up and down. I often just sit there with the report. And I'm like you on the roller coaster, and you've got no idea how hard you're making this for yourself, because you're stuck on that up and that down. And like you said, that is just as dangerous and just as scary to be on that up and down roller coaster. But also, to when you're on that because everything's harder. When you're up, you're up there for hours, it takes so long to get back down, you finally get back down and think, Okay, great. Now I'm going to hide, and then you end up having a hard time and then you're over trading in Europe on the other end. But when you bring it all in, I always said are you gonna think I'm crazy? I think it's absolutely crazy. But the tighter that you manage it, and the more that you sort of bump and nudge your levels, the easier your management actually is. Because if you're fighting just you know, an angled arrow up or a straight up, it's so much easier than fighting. And I know you guys don't use me more but you know, a $15 million with a double our but it actually becomes so much easier when you pull away from that fist up and down. roller coaster.

Scott Benner 1:01:09
Yep, it's pretty easy. Like it's just an it's really, there's not much to it, you know, don't get high, you won't get high. And if you don't get high, you want to crush it with insulin, it's most definitely going to make you low and scare you and rightfully so into eating more food than you need. At some point, you have to say enough's enough. I gotta stop this somewhere. And, and not just keep this going forever. And it doesn't even stop. It goes into overnights like now you're getting super high overnight, or super low overnight. It's at the point now, where if someone shows me a graph, I'm like, I mean, do you not see what's happening here? Yeah. But but they don't they see. They see randomness, it all looks like chaos to them. And I mean, I'm glad to be able to see it. But I think everyone can see it. Eventually, I'm telling you, the longer this podcast goes, and the more people it reaches, the more experiences I get to watch people have. And those experiences prove over and over and over again, how doable This is for large variations of people. It's not just one kind of person who gets it like, you know, with the way diabetes is taught. Traditionally, it is one person it's that person who can put themselves in rock hard shape and stay in it and go to the gym at 5am no matter what, like that that person. Diabetes is easy to them, they just put that kind of focus on to the diabetes. But for everyone else, to make them feel like oh, this isn't for me that good health isn't for me, is just a lie. It's not true. And I think I think that if you, you know, I swear to you, I think those pro tip episodes are it's like a Master's class in 30 hours on diabetes. And it really Oh yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:03:05
yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:07
Do you listen, have you I will

Rachel Baker 1:03:08
just I will just tell. Yes. Yeah. And I will just tell my patients, you know, go and listen to, you know, Scott's protests. And Jenny, you know, I think you guys are incredible at summarizing just the real key concepts for optimal diabetes management, and then just portraying in a way that you seem so simple, you know, I would happily just have my patients who sit and listen to a podcast, I mean, out of a job, surely. And the thing is, if it didn't work, your podcast would not be where it is today.

Scott Benner 1:03:41
Oh, no, right. If we were just talking, just trying to podcast, you know, obviously, people would tell away from it at some point. But listen, Jenny, yes. Yeah. Here's the secret about Jenny, is that she's so wrapped in this Midwestern feeling, and she's, you know, she's got that kind of like, it's a little all shaxi. But when you talk to her, like, personally, like, I know, Jenny, Jenny's just me in a nicer wrapping. So like, when it comes to diabetes, like she was, like, I think if you were alone with her, she'd be like, I don't use more insulin there. That just makes sense, doesn't it? And, and so she's, I just very much I love her and so happy. I actually just spoke the other day to ginger Vieira, who is the person who introduced me to Jenny and I thanked her again and it's been years now. It's like, I really have to thank you. Because ginger sent me a note one day and said, You should have Jenny on your podcast, you guys really? You agree about diabetes, you should you know, you should have her on. And, and if it wasn't for that, I never would have met her honestly. So yeah, I just think that it's um, it's very cool that you as a as a person who's educating somebody would say to somebody Hey, listen, have you heard about this podcast? You know, all the pro tips or diabetes pro tips calm once you go check them out like that thing to me is huge. And not just because it helps the podcast, which it really does, and I appreciate but not just because it helps people. But because he it, it moves us closer to my end goal, which is that the way you're talking to people is how educators should be talking to people. And that one day, you know, not just this podcast won't be necessary, but people won't have to struggle and have these horrible decisions to make. Am I gonna trade today for tomorrow? That is not something we should ask people to have to cognitively decide, like, Am I just going to enjoy today but, but give away the last 15 years of my life? You know, is that what this is? That was that that's not the only choice? And it's bizarre That, to me, it's bizarre that a lot of people feel like that is a choice. Like I'm just gonna, you know, live fast and die hard. That's a Did I get that saying wrong? What is that saying? Live fast and die young. That you don't know you're from Australia, you say concession? It doesn't even mean that

all your animals have pockets? And you're trying to tell me you understand?

Unknown Speaker 1:06:27
Do you sit here and think that you're I think good.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:32
Go on? No, you

Scott Benner 1:06:32
were gonna agree with me. I never stopped anybody from agreeing with me. You were

Rachel Baker 1:06:38
gonna say, I agree, I think there is a huge opportunity to change the landscape of diabetes, health care, I think I think it means that's the reason I got into becoming a diabetes educator. Because we need we need to change the health scape, the landscape of diabetes education, I have 100% there's a whole other way that it can be done a completely different way. So I have the same vision, I have the exact same vision. But if

Scott Benner 1:07:06
I have a phone call tomorrow with a large organization that is very much in charge of how health care educators are directed. And I am going to put my full excitement and and thought into that phone call and then they're going to ignore me. But just so you know, I'm not giving

Unknown Speaker 1:07:25
you I do that every day,

Scott Benner 1:07:28
every day. I booked this phone call and I was like, here's an example of me talking for 20 minutes. Everybody going Oh, yeah, that hang up the phone and going. That guy's a lunatic. It's so but I'm not gonna say he's crazy. Oh, please, we can't tell people that that'll kill them. Sure. Yeah, the podcast is, is reaching all the people it's reaching because, you know, it's not like to your point like it. It is what it is it works. If it didn't work, it wouldn't work. By the way. I want you to know that. I have completely decided to find Halina Sophia Hammami, who is part of the snail venom study and I'm going to get her on the damn. I'm gonna kill myself to get this woman on the podcast. Tell me about this. She was she was she got her PhD at the University of Melbourne. But she's on staff of Nova and I just loved the way you set out the way I said again, by the way, all that really thoughtful stuff you just said about the state of health care. I was going to say Do you ever sit in Australia and wonder why our animals don't have pockets?

Unknown Speaker 1:08:40
I've never I've never considered that animal if

Scott Benner 1:08:45
you've never looked at American than like, why did those deer not have pockets on them somewhere? Where's the Tigers pocket? I mean, you're closer to Africa. You ever just be like we're the lions pockets that I don't understand. How does a caribou not have a pocket? See? You gotta flip things around once in a while.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:07
Oh, my life has changed. Yeah. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:09:09
tell me. Tell me how I just mispronounced that city. What should I have said?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:16
Melbourne.

Scott Benner 1:09:18
You just swallowed like five of the letters. Just so you know. You just you and Nolan. Did I get closer?

Rachel Baker 1:09:24
just just just Melvin. Yeah, that was close. I

Scott Benner 1:09:27
think you fell asleep. Well, where are you from? Melbourne? Yeah, I said it more correctly mumbling it then than I did when I was pronouncing the letters and you're from like, Where are you from Brisbane. Where's that from? Okay. How did this happen to people? Because you're all like surrounded by the water isn't scary being surrounded by water.

Rachel Baker 1:09:53
It's great because we get less Coronavirus. It's excellent isn't the best time to be living on an island when that

Scott Benner 1:09:59
place caught fire. never once thought there's nowhere to run.

Rachel Baker 1:10:04
That's fine. You just go to the water, we got plenty of water. Just run to the edge.

Scott Benner 1:10:10
Run to the sharks. Is that what you just said? Run out to the great white shark week wouldn't exist without and just, yeah, good luck. You better start building the raft. That's all I'm saying. And where are you gonna go? You don't have to go to New Zealand?

Unknown Speaker 1:10:26
Yeah, look, I

Unknown Speaker 1:10:27
hadn't thought that Yeah, well, you better figure it out.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:32
I need a plan,

Scott Benner 1:10:32
we have to save you. You're the only one helping people? Well, that's not true. But you're helping people with diabetes and in Australia that we need to save you. So do you think that the popular I'm gonna let you go in a second? But do you think the popularity of the podcast in Australia can specifically be attributed to the fact that this is not the kind of information you can get there? Or is there a rise in diabetes? They're like, I am starting to look at where diabetes is more prevalent and where the podcast is more popular? And there is I guess, not unsurprisingly, a correlation. It just wasn't something I ever considered before.

Rachel Baker 1:11:11
Yet, I think it was the former of what you said that they can't You can't get this information. This is not like a freely accessible information. You can go to hundreds of different diabetes doctors or diabetes nurses. But the information that you get on this podcast is it's another level you can't you just can't access that.

Scott Benner 1:11:34
I wish you knew me my whole life. So you know how ridiculous that feels. To for me to hear.

Rachel Baker 1:11:41
Unless, of course if they come and see me. But otherwise,

Scott Benner 1:11:44
let me just tell you the opposite of this. If you and I grew up together, and you felt like that now, when you explain to somebody you would say something like this. Can you believe that? That idiot Scott? You remember Scott right from school? Yeah, he's doing it. It's weird. Like people listen, and it's helping them. It doesn't make any How was it? Him? It just it trust me, it doesn't make any sense that it shouldn't be me, which I think is or even a person like me, I don't think but I think that's why it is because I had no preconceived notion of what was right. And when I heard things that are right, just like I had been doing my entire life. I was like, that doesn't make sense. I'm not doing that. Like I can remember being a little kid. And my dad saying, you know, you need to be nice to him. He's your elder. And even at like nine years old, I pulled my father aside and I was like, Listen, I don't know if you realize there's not, that guy's a jackass. And I am not I am not willing to give him any kind of respect or time just because he was born before I was like, those things that don't make sense to me have never made sense to me. And I do not spend any time with both. Really like that just is it's not okay for me. So when I saw things about diabetes, that didn't make sense, I got trapped like everybody else that's like, this is right, this is what I'm being told. But it did not take me long to say I am not going to let this make me crazy. Or make me give up on my daughter's health. So I am going to throw away everything that everyone's saying and think of something else. Because this is just not okay. Yeah. You know, so,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:20
yeah, happy. Yeah. But I

Rachel Baker 1:13:22
think that that's, that's what makes it so relatable. But you know, as an Australian, I would say you're just you're just an honest, genuine bloke, you know, that's how I would describe you. And I think having that having those traits makes it feel all the more achievable. You know, it's just I think that's part of it.

Scott Benner 1:13:44
You're just saying that because I'm wearing pants with pockets and I love the plugins you love the pockets Really? Got me. By the way, Rachel loves the pockets. Pretty close to the title of this episode. Just so you know. Listen, I really appreciate that. And I'm gonna have to start telling my wife listen be nicer to me, because I could just throw myself back on the market to people with diabetes, and I could get a nice line of ladies. So but that you, I'm not saying you I'm just saying in general, there are people who are people who respect me. Just none of them live with me. That's just everybody. I think right? Like I always imagine, like Peyton Manning, or wait, I need to Australian like Do you have any famous people there? I got it. Imagine that Hemsworth guy, right. Is he okay? Yeah. Yeah. By the way, we like it. Which one do you prefer? The Thor the other one.

Rachel Baker 1:14:44
Liam, the other one. The other one.

Scott Benner 1:14:46
Let's imagine Liam has some children. Did he not date the Miley Cyrus? That must have brought you down a little bit? Yeah.

Rachel Baker 1:14:53
Oh, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:54
Yeah. Although

Scott Benner 1:14:56
I like her. I'm just saying, you know, she seems a little strange.

Rachel Baker 1:14:59
But that's it. wouldn't think it Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 1:15:01
So anyway, he comes in in the morning like a wrecking ball. He's got these children, and he's gonna bring them breakfast. And he does. I don't think the kids sit there and think Liam Hemsworth just brought us breakfast. I think that idiot made my cereal soggy. Like, that's how they you know, like, you don't mean like nobody in your own home sees you. Not that I'm Liam Hemsworth. I'm just saying Trust me. I'm probably the furthest thing from Liam Hemsworth. I don't even know who he is. But all this is making me think of is that inappropriate? joke that I've heard so many women who loved the Marvel movies tell they they talk about Chris Hemsworth? And they say I'd let him make me Thor. Did that even resonate with you did that? Did that get to you? Should I swallow the last few words? You just went for like that? Would

Unknown Speaker 1:15:51
you understood better?

Scott Benner 1:15:54
All right, listen, this is getting off the rails. I've already recorded a weird episode this week. So I can't, I can't do too many more. I think I'm getting too comfortable doing this. By the way, in case you're wondering. I used to feel like there was a need for the podcast episodes to have some sort of, I don't know, like conformity, and now I don't even care. Let's just keep talking. Anyway, did you? Did we not say anything that you meant to say that, that I talked over or made pocket jokes around it? Or we go?

Rachel Baker 1:16:29
No, no, no, I came in with no no intention. So no, no.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:34
There you go.

Rachel Baker 1:16:35
I just got i got i was I'll come in with no idea. No idea we're gonna talk about and see what happens

Scott Benner 1:16:41
when people over prepare for the podcast. It makes me nervous when they start talking. And I think they're more prepared for this than I started feeling inadequate. It's like, Oh, geez, should I have made a list? I didn't think oh, sometimes I'll be talking to somebody. No, I hold on a second. I'll be talking to somebody and I'll hear like, paper rattle in the background. I'm like, use paper. Or like, like what's written on it? And they started telling me like, Oh, my gosh, Wow, thank you. Actually, you're taking this so seriously. I hear I'll give you this. And then I'll let you go. This is Don't let this be crushing. Five seconds. Before I record with people, I do a search in my inbox for their name, look for their email and go, Oh, yeah, Australia CD. I remember this, that I go, hi, Rachel. And then we start talking. And I think that's part of my genius. So whatever. And I don't mean genius. In the standard sense, the word I mean genius in the Australian sense, sort of like concession. So I need you to look into that for me and find out why they're called concession.

Rachel Baker 1:17:49
I'm going to I'm abs, that's my first goal. As soon as I get off it.

Scott Benner 1:17:53
Thank you. I have six you have six months to tell me. But if you could just send me an email and tell me why they're called concession cards. I'm going to like plug it in at the end of the episode. All right, listen, go to bed. It's late there. You have to rest up so you can run away from wild animals and snakes and things like that. You live in a city, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:18:13
Yes, yes. You don't like

Scott Benner 1:18:14
normally see a snake? Is that right?

Rachel Baker 1:18:18
A snake? Oh, yeah. No, there's still snakes in the backyard?

Scott Benner 1:18:22
Are they big and scary? Can they hurt you? Or are they just regular ones?

Rachel Baker 1:18:27
Depends, I mean, most of them that I get most of them like a green train, and I'm not going to hurt you. But definitely, I would say, you know, at least once a year, you'll have a brown snake in the pool or in the back garden or something. And now that we're

Scott Benner 1:18:38
in the pool, sounds like a little kid took a poll. But that's not what you're saying. You're saying? No, no, you're saying you're saying and so when there's a brown snake or a venomous snake in your pool? How do you what do you do? What what's the next step?

Rachel Baker 1:18:56
You get the pool net, you know, the pool cleaner. And try and just sort of flick it away. Get it out, take it away

Unknown Speaker 1:19:05
once it goes in your house.

Rachel Baker 1:19:08
When you close the doors, I feel like people have such an interesting imagination about Australia.

Scott Benner 1:19:15
To me, here's what you just said to me. I live on Mars. That's what you just said to me. Yeah, we can't even breathe. The atmosphere here is not hospitable to life. Like that's what you just said. Like my brain is yelling. Why won't this woman move out of that wasteland? Like Like, like a snake in your butt? I realized there are places in America where like, you know, bears wander into people's yards and there are rattles?

Unknown Speaker 1:19:42
Exactly. I don't understand

Scott Benner 1:19:43
why people don't leave those places, either. Just I gotta be honest with you. If I woke up one day, and there was a bear at my back door. I wouldn't live here three days from now. Just be like, I

Unknown Speaker 1:19:57
gotta go

Scott Benner 1:19:58
gosh, oh, yeah. But I am Maybe a word that I shouldn't say on the puck. I'm gonna stop the recording and tell you that I was gonna say that. That seems unfair, doesn't it? Thanks so much to Rachel for coming on the show and sharing her story. And given the chitchat with me, I had a great time. Thanks also to the Dexcom g six continuous glucose monitor, and the Omni pod tubeless insulin pump, find out more@dexcom.com forward slash juice box, my Omni pod.com forward slash juice box and don't forget the T one D exchange T one d exchange.org. forward slash juice box.

Looking for those diabetes pro tip episodes that you hear everybody talking about? You can find them right there and your podcast player or diabetes pro tip.com. I'll be back very soon with another episode made just for you. How about a little bonus chitchat from right before we started recording this episode to talk when you were speaking prior with the video and it just went on. So I wasn't really hearing you. All my bad jokes about like what part of the Australian jungle you live in, started popping

up somewhere on a koala bear farm the middle of that island.

Unknown Speaker 1:21:35
That's exactly accurate representation.

Scott Benner 1:21:38
Thank you so much. I really I like to show off my geography during the pot. hasn't done it since then. So that's good. Not that it wasn't okay. But it will be more important if people can hear I actually left a little bit in the episode I put up yesterday, which I think I recorded like six months ago. But I left a little bit of an end of us talking in the beginning about that. And the truth is with a podcast if it doesn't sound right, it doesn't matter what you're saying. People will flake out and just leave it they won't listen to you. It doesn't matter what you're talking about. You could be like so this is how you become a billionaire. And people be like not if it's gonna go in and out. It's not I'm not listening. So interesting what people will spend their time with and not. Although I have to agree with them. I don't I don't like it to. to sound poorly either.

Rachel Baker 1:22:38
Yeah, no, I'm great. Thank you

Unknown Speaker 1:22:40
going and

Unknown Speaker 1:22:45
what time is it there?

Unknown Speaker 1:22:48
It's 9pm

Scott Benner 1:22:51
for some reason, it's Australia week here. So you are the third person from Australia I've recorded within less than a week. So you got a lot to go to here because I'm completely out of stupid things to say about Australia. So you and I are gonna have to have a real conversation.