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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of The Juicebox podcast.

On today's episode, I'll be speaking with Natalie in this after dark. She's 40 years old now, but she was diagnosed with type one diabetes in her teens. At this moment, she's recovering from drug and alcohol addiction, and this is her story. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's Juicebox at checkout to save 40% at cozy earth.com when you place your first order for ag one, with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. Ag one.com/juice box. If you are the caregiver of someone with type one diabetes or have type one yourself, please go to T 1d exchange.org/juice, box and complete the survey. This should take you about 10 minutes, and will really help type one diabetes research. You can help right from your house at T 1d exchange.org/juicebox, exchange.org/juice, box.

Dexcom sponsored this episode of The Juicebox podcast. Learn more about the Dexcom g7 at my link, dexcom.com/juicebox, today's podcast is sponsored by touched by type one. Check them out on Facebook, Instagram and at touched by type one.org. If you're looking for an organization who's helping people with type one diabetes, you're looking for touch by type one. Hi. My

Natalie 1:57
name is Natalie. I am a type one diabetes, 40 years old, and I am also a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. I guess my story kind of starts back with my mother, who was, I mean, I grew I was born and raised the Phoenix area of Arizona. They'll live here, born and raised in the same household. My dad still actually lives in very stable upbringing. In that sense, when it comes to my diet, diesel, it starts with my mom. She was a type one diabetic, and didn't find out she was a diabetic until she was eight months pregnant with me, and she lost her eyesight, so I immediately was delivered as a C section, and I was also almost 10 pounds that about eight months of pregnancy, my diabetes journey really started from the time I was born. Even though I wasn't technically born with it, I grew up around, you know, eating back in the 80s. You know, you eat the the Sweet and Low, the crystal lights, the diet sodas, everything was a diabetic diet for a whole entire family. So by the time it came around for me to become a diabetic, it really wasn't that much of a change. Can

Scott Benner 3:14
you tell me a little bit about your mom? Like, lost her eyesight for good?

Natalie 3:19
No, no, no. Once her, once her blood sugars got back under control, she gained her eyesight back. Okay, okay,

Scott Benner 3:25
that's what I kind of thought you were getting at, but I wasn't 100%

Natalie 3:29
Yeah, no, she, she got her eyesight back. Um, a little, a little more history with my mom is that she's also an alcoholic, so I grew up with her being in and out of recovery a lot as well, which eventually down the line, which led to her passing from her her alcoholism, which affected, obviously, her diabetes and so, like on her death certificate, complications of diabetes is why she died, but it was a direct reflection of her not taking care of herself.

Scott Benner 3:54
I'm so sorry. I can I ask a question like, do you have more context? Like, so she had type one. It wasn't gestational. I

Natalie 4:03
think it started off as gestational, okay, but she was diagnosed as type one. However, she also never, I think she may have gone to an endocrinologist, from my memory, maybe once for the whole time. I don't think it was much of a thing, or she was just so, so in control most of my life. I remember my mom being in such great control of, you know, giving yourself insulin. She'd have us give her insulin so we knew how to, like, give her shots, and we tested our blood sugars and her blood sugars, and she was super strict about diet and exercise. So she really did take care of herself for most of my life

Scott Benner 4:41
going? Would you consider her like a functioning alcoholic, or was she like a fall down drunk?

Natalie 4:47
I would say she she was more functioning until my parents got divorced. Okay? When my parents got divorced, I would think I was 16, 1516, I was around high. School time, and when my parents got divorced, my my mom completely different person. She's the one who moved out. My dad finished raising me, and so she moved out, and it was just downhill from that. It was just like one extreme to the other. She got into the drugs it was. She was homeless for some time. Every now and then she gets sober again, you know, a slew of bad men constantly, it kind of turned into my sister. My older sister really took the role of being her parent. Unfortunately, she had that burden on her. So me, my mom became a strain for about five years. You know, I was just angry. I was getting through high school. I was with my dad. Was just being my dad for even now, it's mostly just me and my dad.

Scott Benner 5:46
So how old was she when she was pregnant with you? You know, he was 30. Oh, okay, and you're the youngest.

Natalie 5:54
I have the youngest. Yeah, I have a sister that's four years older than me. Okay. And then, how

Scott Benner 5:59
old were you when you were diagnosed?

Natalie 6:00
So here's a funny story, or the weird, the weird part, I don't have an exact like, Hey, this is what happened. You know, I was in DK, you know there was, there's no, like, big event that came with it. It was my mom saw the signs. And I think I was around 11, and growing up, I was a huge dancer. I danced almost every single day dance studios. I was a cheerleader. I was extremely active. And when I was around 11, my mom started, I guess, noticing the signs and the constant being thirsty, the yeast infections, the peeing all the time, and the doctors kind of pushed it off. And I remember going there, and they're like, oh, we'd rather just watch her for a little bit. And then once I got into my teenage years, I got into drugs and partying, and I just, I, of course, I neglected myself, and so I never actually got an an official diagnosis until I was almost 18, okay, and then I didn't take care of myself and actually give myself insulin until I became pregnant, and that's when I decided I should live for something. And I was at 19,

Scott Benner 7:13
about a year later. Hey, did your when you were growing up? Was your mom using in the house? Or is that a thing that happened after she left, or was it happening? And that's why she left

Natalie 7:23
the alcohol, the alcoholism in the house. Like I've never, I never knew my mom to do drugs, except for maybe when I was really, really little. She used to have special cigarettes, which I now know it was weed, but I never saw her like, really do that. It was mostly just the alcohol. It was very dysfunctional behind closed doors, for sure, my mom was a raging alcoholic. It was being woken up in the middle of the night with my mom on top of my dad, with a nice tons of fights. It was running to the bedroom, you know, and hiding from everybody to serve, going crazy trying to break up fights. There was a lot of that that I think I have chosen to probably block out, or I was too young to really understand what was going on at the time, my sister has some crazy stories that she can tell you, but for me, I remember my childhood being mostly good. And I don't know if that's like a defense thing, a mental thing. I don't know what that it is, but most of the memories were good, but I do remember that when mom was bad, she was really bad, and she she was crazy.

Scott Benner 8:33
Does she have any mental illness that you're aware of?

Natalie 8:36
Definitely depression, probably some anxiety thrown in there. Nothing like bipolar or anything that required, I don't know her, to be necessarily, put in a hospital or anything. But as since she's passed, I have found out a lot of serving history, like family history, which has been interesting to find out on her side, on her side, yeah, my mom's an army brat, and so, you know, she grew up all over the place, but my my grandmother is from Australia, and so they lived in Australia. My mom was very young, and just some of the stuff like, I mean, forgive me, grandma, but she was a whole and she has, like, like, random kids places. The reason why she married my grandpa, I guess alcohol, alcoholism runs deep with my grandma, and she was a raging alcoholic as well. Oh, okay, so it runs deep on my mom's side.

Scott Benner 9:34
Are you an alcoholic? No,

Natalie 9:35
I am. I mean, I'm not. I'm I'm recovering alcoholic. Okay, so I was gonna say there's parts of my life where alcoholism was definitely the main focus, you know? I mean, obviously it landed me in jail, got a DUI, but mess was my big thing. I never really did the both. It was either one or the other, either I was off the chain with alcohol or it was. I loved doing that math was my favorite until it got too real.

Scott Benner 10:04
What age did you start with? Well, I guess, what did you what drug did you try first?

Natalie 10:08
Actually, the very first thing I ever tried was acid. Oh yeah, that was the very first thing I ever did. And I think I was 15. I was in ninth grade, so I was around 15. How does that happen? I know I think it was at a party. It was, like, one of my very first parties, okay, that I ever went to, and so I just remember trying it and it was fun, and I never did it again, like, ever again. Like, it was cool, it was fun, like, whatever, like, it was scary to look into me, or, I think being my best friend. Best friend last so much, we literally feed our pants, full experience whatever, no interest in touching it again during that time, though, that my ninth grade year must have been around. That must have been women, parents got divorced, because that's when I really got out of control. I would drink alcohol while I was sitting in class, I would have vodka in my walk model, and I would drink him. I eventually did get caught once, because I took all over the floor inside my school. So I got, you know, suspended for that, and I got kicked off a cheerleading so I'm pretty sure that's the memory that people have of me as the girl or the cheerleader who's her up all over the hallway in ninth grade.

Unknown Speaker 11:24
Geez.

Scott Benner 11:25
You remember this is good? Or you remember like younger years is good? I

Natalie 11:30
remember my younger years as good, you know, I remember my parents being really in love with each other. They would dance together, you know, they would kiss like we did everything together. You know, we took lots of family trips. They were always very supportive. Everybody was always the whole family was always there together to support each other. We'd always have like we were Girl Scouts, and I'm almost a troop leader, but nobody knew what was happening behind closed doors when everybody left

Scott Benner 11:57
those cookies are like crack. So maybe that was, maybe that was her.

Natalie 12:01
Maybe that was really the start of it. Well,

Scott Benner 12:04
okay, do you think looking back now with hindsight, like was the laughing and dancing and kissing like mom and dad were drunk in the living room all the time? Oh,

Natalie 12:13
absolutely. Okay, absolutely, yeah. And when we have these big bonfires in the backyard with the family members, of course there were tons of alcohol, right? Tons of alcohol.

Scott Benner 12:23
Did you feel supported emotionally? Did you like if you needed help with homework or a life problem? Did you feel like they were there for you for

Natalie 12:32
the most part? My mom, my mother, absolutely okay. She was also a huge enabler. Never, ever questioned my parents love for me, I don't think when it came to, let's say issues or big things that happened, we were kind of the family that swept it under the rug. Like, okay, this happened, let's not talk about it later. Like, just get through it, and we just don't talk about it. Like, you're grounded for a week and that's it. We just don't talk

Scott Benner 12:56
about it. Yeah, do you know who initiated their divorce? My

Natalie 13:00
mom would threaten divorce a lot, but my dad finally pulled straw on

Scott Benner 13:03
it. He's like, hey, you know what? Why don't you actually go, yeah? He's like,

Natalie 13:07
Yeah, I'm been doing this for 20 years, like I'm done. Did your

Scott Benner 13:11
dad clean himself up? Or would you call him addicted? Now,

Natalie 13:16
you know, I really, I feel my dad is a functioning alcoholic, like extremely functioning, like my dad is. He drinks a lot, but you won't see him drunk, but you also won't see him without a drink,

Scott Benner 13:32
maybe, like a 12 pack a day kind of thing. Well,

Natalie 13:35
he's a vodka drinker. But yes, okay, yes, he will. He's a bot pi draker, as he's gotten older and his body's hurting, I, for some reason, I feel I have absolutely no proof of this. I feel like there might be pain pills involved. Oh, geez. But my dad will, he's he has pride. He will never admit anything.

Scott Benner 13:56
Did you grow up in poverty? Did you guys have money? Where was your What was it like? Financially?

Natalie 14:02
I would say we were middle class, okay. However, also growing up, my dad, come like my grandparents, or my grandpa was an aerospace engineer, and he used to be vice president of TRW, which is now Boeing, I believe so. My dad grew up very wealthy in the Pacific politics in California, his godmother was vivid and Vance from, and she's Ethel from, I Love Lucy, really. Oh, he grew up, yeah, yeah. He grew up kind of like the a list or lifestyle. We had everything that we needed, and probably most of what we wanted. Looking back on what I also found out is like the reason that we had the house was because our grandparents bought it. You know, the reason why my parents had the cars they did was because my grandparents bought it. So you think your parents grew up poorly. My dad did not, absolutely no, my mom. I mean, my mom was an Army brat, so and there was. Five kids in her family. So, I mean, I don't know how that was. She's never said anything that she lived early or wealthy, never, she didn't talk about the childhood much, actually, yeah,

Scott Benner 15:09
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Natalie 17:18
No, I fit into that category. I feel like I felt they would, oh, my God.

Scott Benner 17:22
It feels like they were talking to you and then just wrote down what happened to you and made the list. These are risk factors for childhood development, right? So they're traumatic events or circumstances that could lead to, you know, their risk factors, let's say for you not turning out the way you would hope this is the list chronic stress, so ongoing stresses, whether they're family issues or financial stability, academic pressure, anything like that, that's, you know, anxiety, depression based. I'm going to count growing up with drunks as a stressful abuse or neglect. Were you physically, emotionally or sexually abused? No, you don't think emotional abuse being the child of alcoholics? Probably, yeah, okay, yeah. Probably the next one is parental substance abuse. Growing up with parents who abuse drugs or alcohol, we've got that one so we have stress. We're going to give you parents of substance abuse. Maybe we'll skip over abuse and neglect. But you know, because you get the other one, any domestic violence, you said, yes, your mom would hold a knife on your dad. Yep, losses, poverty, you didn't have lack of parental involvement, like sufficient attention, guidance and support, but like the kind you would want to give a child, not just like they were

Natalie 18:39
there, being there, yeah, they were present. I mean, their physical bodies were present, okay,

Scott Benner 18:45
lack of parental involvement. We got inconsistencies and discipline. And you said there, yes, right? Yes, absolutely. Any mental health issues with your parents.

Natalie 18:56
I know my dad struggled with depression as well as my mom that. I mean, that's all I told about.

Scott Benner 19:03
Well, divorce or separation, you have that one, and then the last one is exposure to crime or violence,

Natalie 19:10
yeah, I guess so, yeah. I mean, if you think about like, when it comes to like, crimes, my parents were, like, the type that would go still, street signs,

Scott Benner 19:19
wait as adults.

Natalie 19:21
Oh yeah, oh yeah. So we lived in this area that wasn't built up yet. I mean, now it's huge in the east valley here, but like, they would put these little I remember specifically in this farmland area I think they were going to be building and they have these street signs of what the street names were going to be. And I remember in we had like, a 1972 station wagon. I don't know why I remember that so well, okay, but I remember being in the back of that station wagon, and my parents driving up next to this field and stealing all these street signs, and then we had them all lined up in the backyard, on the porch. I think my dad still has a couple of them hanging up there, actually. 5050, well,

Scott Benner 20:00
modern mental health doctors believe that you had, and this is me making up a term. It's not from a list, no fucking chance. Yeah.

Natalie 20:12
I know absolutely, absolutely. Isn't

Scott Benner 20:15
it interesting is that the things that happen in your adult life, which we're going to talk about, are completely predictable by these things,

Natalie 20:21
yeah? And it's, it's crazy that it's able to be

Scott Benner 20:25
predicted too. Yeah, no, no. I mean, isn't Isn't it odd to hear somebody read a list to you, and you go, Oh, yeah, that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Natalie 20:33
So what is this? Where do I call it? What was this thing called? Oh, if you want to look

Scott Benner 20:36
into it more, it's called the it's called aces. It's adverse childhood experiences, or sometimes people call it risk factors for childhood development, but the term ACES is it should get you there on a Google search so you start, okay, Jesus. Now, do you have a good sense of humor about this? Natalie?

Natalie 20:53
Oh, hell, yeah. Okay. Okay, good. Me. I mean, you should hear the sense of humor me and my my daughter have about everything, even the stuff that she's been through that I put her through,

Scott Benner 21:02
I've put her well, we'll get to that. So, yeah, 15 you go to a party and you're like, you know what? I could start slow with a half a beer, or, why don't we try acids? But did that, Christ, I know was that the first half hour you were there and is, I mean, can you look back now? Were you trying to escape, like, how you felt? Do you think you were just, like, getting involved in the family business? Like, what was going on there?

Natalie 21:27
I honestly, I feel it was kind of like I am hanging out with, like, the popular people at school. And I, I remember being just really excited that I was a part of that group.

Scott Benner 21:37
Maybe it was what they're doing that I'm in. Like, yes, exactly. Okay,

Natalie 21:42
exactly. All right,

Scott Benner 21:43
let me just weed. Probably yes, right?

Natalie 21:46
I've maybe been like, I a total of 10

Scott Benner 21:51
times, if that my whole life. Interesting cocaine,

Natalie 21:54
I've never liked it. You didn't like a couple times.

Scott Benner 21:58
Cocaine, a couple times. How about heroin? Never, never. I don't even like pain pills. Gotcha, but meth, yes, please.

Natalie 22:08
Oh yeah, okay, that's the winner. How old? First time, first time I was 17. Wow. My sister introduced me to

Scott Benner 22:17
it. Your sister was like, hey, you know what you would love math.

Natalie 22:23
So my sister had her, you know, my sister had a worst upbringing, or she remembers the real upbringing that I choose to forget. And she started very young, getting in trouble. She, she, you know, I was a golden child. If there was a golden child between us, I was a golden child. So she was the bad one. She started doing method like 15, and she's four years older than me, so when I was 17, she was already moved out of the house and stuff, okay? And I always kept my distance from her, because, I mean, I was in school and, you know, I was doing semi Okay, and somewhat of where I was going in life compared to her, right? But once my heart got broken by my heart my high school sweetheart, everything changed for me. Okay, everything. And I went to go see my sister, and that was it. So you go to your sister

Scott Benner 23:11
for some sisterly advice. And her advice was, let's do math. Yeah, wow, basically, geez, yeah.

Natalie 23:19
And I remember doing it for the very first time. And I'm like, like, smoking this bowl. And I'm like, I remember thinking, like, What the hell is this? Because, you know, like, when, when you drink, like you feel it like you your eyesight feels it like your whole body, like you could feel it. But like with meth, I was like, Okay, what is this? She's like, you haven't shut up for like, 30 minutes. This is the effects. This is this, is it? I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So I could be more outgoing. I was a little bit shy, Tim at person until you got to know me. Yeah, I was very shy. Actually, that's

Scott Benner 23:51
some positive PR for meth, by the way, be more outgoing. Have your teeth fall out. Do you have your teeth? I do. Congratulations. You know, I've

Natalie 24:01
also been blessed throughout my childhood of despite my criminal background and my history, I've always landed, not always, but most of the time. I've landed great jobs with big corporations that have good health care, really, so I've been able to keep my teeth like right now I work.

Scott Benner 24:19
My son's having trouble getting a job. Do you think I should tell him that on meth, you had no trouble getting hired? How do you think you'll well,

Natalie 24:28
okay, here's the thing. I didn't work when I was on very well, okay, did a little bit, but most of my adulthood have, I've been in recovery. I say it's been an on and off thing, um, mostly in recovery most of my adulthood. So

Scott Benner 24:43
how long did the seriously, how long did the math using go on for and at what point do you try to, like, get cleaned up? So from

Natalie 24:49
the time like 17, stayed on, it pretty consistent. I never got in trouble anything. It was just, if it was around, it was around. And you. My sister's boyfriend was the drug dealer, and she was with him for like, 15 years.

Unknown Speaker 25:04
He's got a good job.

Natalie 25:07
Yeah, it worked for a minute, right until it didn't. So it was always free to me. When I got pregnant is when, like, life started, like, flipping the switch, and during my I didn't really explain. Explain this for other people. It makes sense to other people. I was 19 when I got pregnant. I had sex with, you know, my daughter's wonderful dad. I say that very sarcastically. I mean, he's doing well now, but you know, at the time, not a good choice. I got pregnant after having sex with him one time, that same night that we had sex, which was Christmas morning, we got rated by the Feds for him because I picked a winner,

Scott Benner 25:46
jeez. So this wasn't the first time. Was this first time you had sex with him? Yeah?

Natalie 25:52
Christmas morning, the one and only time we had sex. And then the feds came and rated us for him. Merry

Scott Benner 25:57
Christmas. Here's a baby. Yeah? Get dressed. Yeah. And I because Uncle Sam, I ignored

Natalie 26:03
it too. I ignored that pregnancy for almost five months.

Scott Benner 26:06
You knew you were pregnant. You tried to pretend you weren't. Well, here's the thing.

Natalie 26:10
Apparently, you know, you have to read the directions when you take a pregnancy test, you know, so you're supposed to wait until you have a missed period. But when you're high all the time, you don't know what, how long it's been since you had a period. So I took two pregnancy tests, and it says I wasn't pregnant. So I was like, okay, like, I'm not pregnant. And then when I started, couldn't, couldn't put my pants on anymore, I finally was like, Okay, I need to go see a doctor, and I was pregnant. Really?

Scott Benner 26:36
Wow. Yeah. So I was, were you doing meth that time? Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, tell me yes,

Natalie 26:41
I was, I was totally getting high the whole time until I was about five months. Did

Scott Benner 26:46
that have any effects on the baby? Glad to ask her. I

Natalie 26:48
mean, she came out fine. She came out completely wonderful, beautiful, seven pounds other than that. I mean, does she

Scott Benner 26:56
know this? Like this, something she's aware of? Yes. Explain to me the day you said to your daughter, your daughter, right? Yeah, yeah, hey, honey, I have to tell you something. I used meth for the first five months of your pregnancy. So I don't

Natalie 27:11
really know how this topics started. I pretty I used to bring her, or even now she'll come with me every now and then to, you know, like a a meetings and NA meetings, you know, and topics would get brought up. I don't know if remember that conversation actually having with her, or if it was my even my sister drugs during her first pregnancy. And I'm, I don't remember how the conversation started with, we mean her. I was like, you know that I was high during the first part of my pregnancy with you. I remember saying that and us having a conversation. I don't remember how the topic got brought up in the first place.

Scott Benner 27:53
Okay, how many kids do you have? Just one one, it's the one. Just this lucky, this lucky baby that came out after Christmas, by the way, was that your Christmas present, like, did you get a bracelet too, or something? It's terrible. Jesus, my God, all right, hold on. It's

Natalie 28:14
not like we were in love. You know, I feel, in a way, I feel very fortunate because, like her dad, he's actually been on the news telling his story. He's kind of a cool dude to talk to, but he's been in and out of prison, you know, since he was 20. And he's 10 years older than me when I met him, you know, I was about 19, and he had just gotten out of doing 10 years in prison, and so I knew he was on the run, and then when he defense came and rated us, he did, like, another six years, got out for like, maybe a couple months, went back. He's been gone. He was gone consistently until she was about 14 or 15. So I told, in a way, very blessed that, like, he wasn't around, he didn't break my heart. He knew from day one. I never said I was going to be with moms. Like, dude, I'm done. Bye, yeah. Like, we've had an, like, a friendship relationship. And, you know, because of our daughter,

Scott Benner 29:10
listen, you weren't a virgin on this day, correct? Oh no, no. Oh no, God no. Did you hear the story about my grandmother?

Natalie 29:18
Yeah, yeah.

Scott Benner 29:20
What I meant was, is that what I was trying to get to was a lot of your existence, just like, go somewhere, get high, have sex, yes, okay, and yeah, I got you. How are you involved in these many things that I know for myself, I'd go, I have to leave. Like, I don't want to be here. Like, if I went to a party when I was 15 and somebody was doing as they'd be like, Oh, I made a mistake, and then I would have went home. But what draws you in, over and over again? Oh, yeah, what doesn't stop you?

Natalie 29:51
I think maybe it's which is super controversial for a lot of people, of being able to stop I think my addiction kicked in. You know what I mean? There, there comes a. Point where you like to, I don't know if there's any medical terminology, but it's like, it flips a switch in your brain and it becomes the obsession. You know, it's not like, especially with math. It's not a physical obsession. It is a mental obsession. It's like that. What is it the dopamine or the serotonin that get kicked in? And it's just like, you have to have more. I can't even explain not,

Scott Benner 30:23
like, the way people like, talk about heroin, for example, like, it's not, like, a physical you think it's not a physical addiction for you? No,

Natalie 30:30
I mean, it would be physical, as in, you need more to stay awake and to, like, move and stuff, but you don't get physically ill. Offered, you know, like, the worst that's gonna happen when you come off of meth is you're gonna sleep, you might have a crazy outburst because you're so emotional, you're gonna cry and you're gonna eat a ton. Okay,

Scott Benner 30:48
well, chatgpt believes that it is physically addictive. It says someone uses meth it triggers the release of large amounts of dopamine in the brain, which creates intense feelings of pleasure and euphoria. Over time, the brain's chemistry can change, leading to tolerance, needing more of the drug to get the same effect. Yes, yeah, yes, that's your experience with it. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Wow. How old were you when you're diagnosed with type one?

Natalie 31:15
I was about 17, around 17, almost 18. I couldn't remember. I didn't start taking care of myself until I was pregnant, though, okay, yeah, I'm

Scott Benner 31:22
sorry. I couldn't remember at all. I was like, I was dizzy by the whole thing, are you taking care of your diabetes at all during that time? You have to be taking basal insulin at least, right?

Natalie 31:32
I would every now and then when I remembered, okay, it was like, and fun story is that I actually one of my best, like, using buddies was diabetic, and she was a type one diabetes since she was, like, nine years old, and so, like, when I'd see her take her in, I was like, No, I should probably check my blood sugar and see what mine's at as we're eating a pack of Skittles and drinking, you know, a Code Red Mountain too, because that's what we love to do. What

Scott Benner 31:56
a great idea. I should take my insulin. So, I mean, were you going to the doctor?

Natalie 32:00
No, no, no. So I got kicked off of my parents health insurance when I was out of school, because, you know, that's the way it used to be, yeah, and so, like, I was on state assistance. I made sure I stayed on government, like health care for so many years, like, intentionally made sure I didn't make enough money to make sure that my diabetes was taken care of. Yeah,

Scott Benner 32:22
so many years, so sad. I mean, it just is. Well, not just the whole thing is, you get diagnosed in your 17 there's no one there to God, there's no one there to be a parent, you know what I mean, and and to learn about this thing for you and try to help you navigate it. You're high now, so you're not even paying attention to it. They don't. I mean, you're a meth they got to know you're using meth, right?

Natalie 32:45
I was sure they knew. I mean, not once did anybody ever bring it up to me. But I'm sure

Scott Benner 32:51
that no one ever looked Natalie, you okay? You look high.

Natalie 32:56
Yeah, yeah. No, never, never. And you know, I was also never a person that got extra skinny or lost a bunch of weight, if anything, I was like, at the weight, I probably should have been, according to doctors, I didn't like pick my face. I didn't, you know, I have my teeth. I didn't fit the description of a tweaker at all. Oh, Jesus,

Scott Benner 33:16
this. It's so much to think about. You know what I mean? Like, there's so many people who are supposed to be supporting each other, but they're also lost in their own problem. That how could they possibly, absolutely,

Natalie 33:26
yeah, absolutely. And during that early time, my mom was actually in recovery, and she'd keep her distance, um, she'd let me come to her. Of course, I would go to her when, you know, like, she said, Yeah, Mom, I need money. Mom, I need this. Mom, I need that. And then when it was like, Mom, I'm pregnant. Like, if it wasn't for my mom, my daughter totally would have, and should have been taken away from me, for sure, for sure,

Scott Benner 33:49
because you would have done such a poor job, or because she was able, okay, yeah,

Natalie 33:55
to be completely transparent with it. If I wasn't so far along, I would have had an abortion, for sure. I never wanted to be a mom ever.

Scott Benner 34:05
It's because you found out at five months you couldn't do it, correct, yeah, all right, you would have had an abortion, but you didn't know for five months. You're so high you didn't know for five months, right? Right? Okay, exactly, all right. And then you find out you don't know what to do, so you go to your mom, yeah, what does she do for

Natalie 34:26
you? She hugged me, and she's like, You don't have to do this alone. I'll do it with you. I remember that, and we cried. She immediately went and found out the part, because at the time, she was running a halfway house, a recovery house for women. She put her whole life like on hold for me. She went and got us our own place that we stayed in for a few years together. You know, she helped me raise my daughter in the beginning, for

Scott Benner 34:50
sure, what was that like? Was she any good at that? Yeah,

Natalie 34:53
my mom. So another crazy part about my mom is she

Scott Benner 34:56
clean by then? Yes, yes. How does she. Like,

Natalie 35:00
when my mom, when she's like, when she's great, she's great, like, she is like, this person that you like, walk into a room and people are in awe of her because her aura was so good. But like, when she's bad, everyone is just like, Get Get away from me. Like, it's just crazy the night and day. Okay, now she also all my growing up, and from the time like I was born until the time I was 11, my mom was an in home daycare provider, and she had a sorry, hold

Unknown Speaker 35:29
on a second.

Natalie 35:30
I know, I know, I know he had a wait list, because people in the neighborhood wanted her to be like, watch their kids. She used to have a total of sometimes 16 kids at our home during the day. Is

Scott Benner 35:44
there any chance this was a front for a drug dealing thing?

Natalie 35:49
They dropped the kids off? Genius, yeah, maybe pick it up. Pick

Scott Benner 35:53
it up drugs when they drop off the kids.

Natalie 35:57
The new next series should start on that one.

Scott Benner 36:01
Jesus, hey. So you know this is screwed up, right? Oh, absolutely okay. All right, you completely were okay, so, all right, you have your daughter. When do you get locked up? What happens there?

Natalie 36:13
I have my daughter. She is about, I think it was around 2000 I don't remember the years, but my daughter was young. I eventually had gotten clean because I had gotten in trouble. I got my first felony. So I went to rehab and I stayed clean. I don't even want to say I was in recovery, so I just stayed abstinent for about five years. What was

Scott Benner 36:35
the felony? Well, I

Natalie 36:36
had that just means of transportation, and then I had that's with a credit card, forgery with a red instrument and identity theft.

Scott Benner 36:45
But forgery with a, what a written instrument,

Natalie 36:48
okay? Because I signed using one of the digital things,

Scott Benner 36:53
okay, oh, after you stole the credit card. Oh, yeah, yeah, we

Natalie 36:56
went to Macy's whose card just

Scott Benner 36:59
a person's No, okay, yeah, yeah, I got it. I have to ask you, what did you buy at Macy's?

Natalie 37:05
My God, a mixer, like, what? You know, those stand up mixers that I had no idea what to do with, but I knew the dope man would find it valuable. You know what? I mean,

Scott Benner 37:23
you bought the mixer to sell the mixer, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. It just sounds so ridiculous. You're like, you know, I just thought I'd get into making cookies. Scott, like I was all charged up on meth, and I had this credit card, and I was like, I got, we should try baking, yeah? But you

Natalie 37:39
were, I mean, that sounds normal, actually, yeah, like you're describing

Scott Benner 37:44
Thursday. It's so crazy. It's so it is crazy, and it's sad and happening to way more people than somebody would want to believe. Yeah, what leads you to get

Natalie 37:53
clean? I had was put on probation. Then my probation officer was like, Hey, this is your choice. You are not missing clean anymore or at all, or you're diluting, you know, like all these issues, you're either going to show up to this rehab or you're going to jail. Like, these are your choices. Okay? And so I went, and I showed up at that rehab, and at the time, I was actually have been with somebody who we use drugs with, and he had gotten clean on his own, and he was like, literally just waiting for my time to come, for me to get clean. And so he was already in recovery, doing well, and as soon as I got clean, we immediately got back together. We stayed together for a long time, and actually was engaged to him at one point,

Scott Benner 38:36
but you did go to jail. Is that correct at one point? I did that comes after this felony. Oh, after you got clean. Sorry, yes, yes.

Natalie 38:45
So I got clean. I never saw any jail time for that. Those charges, right? Because it was, like my first offense, you know, the relation, yeah, finished. That completed. After my fiance and I broke up, I went on the Benner of drinking alcohol. That's when I was like at my worst, and probably the most like alcoholic me I've ever been. My favorite thing to do was drink alcohol, drive a car, listen to music, and I used to do all those things together when I didn't have my daughter around me. So I got a DUI, and in Arizona at that time, not sure how they are now, but the laws were hard, super hard, and that's where 10 city came into place. It was my first DUI by first and only DUI offense. And I blue like a point one, five, but my blood came back at point 255, of course, they went with a higher charge. So I had a Super Extreme DUI. They let me do work with work release, which was crazy. So I did work release for 15 days, and then after work release, I was on house arrest for 45 days, and I had a breathalyzer in my house. So every time I'd come near like the house or entering back. Into the house, I have to go blow into this machine. And when I was on that house arrest is when I picked up drugs again, because I couldn't drink, couldn't drink. You know, the next option would be drugs during

Scott Benner 40:11
all this. There's no point your brain just, there's no point. I understand addiction and the idea there, but I'm just, there's no point where you just, like, think, like, this isn't going well, like my life is not going well. Or do you think it is?

Unknown Speaker 40:26
No,

Natalie 40:27
I absolutely know it's not going well,

Scott Benner 40:29
okay, but you can't stop long enough to like, did you have the opportunity for a change? Were you without opportunity as well?

Natalie 40:36
You know my aunt Missouri, like after so I left my fiance, I had gotten my own place. Of course, I ended up losing that place because the DUI and then and at that exact same time, like, literally, like two weeks after I got that DUI, I got laid off from my job. That was around 2008 I remember it was like the the recession type era, and I went to go live with my aunt, my daughter and I went to go live with my aunt, who also have both her and my uncle both have, like, long term, like, 20 plus years of sobriety. Okay? So I was like, perfect. This is where I need to go. But it didn't help. It didn't work. You know, I all I did was waste my time. I'm getting high during that time Jesus

Scott Benner 41:20
Christ. Oh, God heights, the horrifying okay, how do you end up in jail the next eventually, then

Natalie 41:26
eventually, because of the guy I was dating. I don't even, I'm not even sure stuff started getting too real. We took off in Texas because, of course, that was supposed to be a new change, and if I just get out of Arizona, I'll be fine. No,

Scott Benner 41:40
the problem is, it's Arizona, not me, yeah, of course, yeah, it's not me, right? If I can get out of here, I'll be okay, yes, okay, exactly. So

Natalie 41:49
my daughter's dad's family lives in Texas, and they said, hey, we'll put you on a train and you come move out here. So within seven days, I packed my daughter, my current boyfriend, and myself and we moved out to this little, tiny town with like, a population of like 5000 people in Texas. Awful experience. When I came back from Texas, I had a warrant out for my arrest for not paying my fines. Okay? I think it was like a bench board or something. That's what got me placed in jail.

Scott Benner 42:22
What went wrong that this is going to we're going to relocate, and everything is going to be great plan. Where did

Natalie 42:27
that go wrong? I immediately put us into another dysfunctional family. His whole family is also alcoholic, and his sister was so messed up on pills, like it was just like Jesus, you know, just me taking a step, and nothing changed. It just happened to be with a new family. Natalie,

Scott Benner 42:44
do you listen to the podcast? I do I sound like, square to you when I'm talking or do, like, how do I come on? Like, I'm being, being, like, really serious. Now, I'm not making this about me. I'm just trying to understand, like, I'm hearing your life, and I'm like, What in the hell is happening? Like, when you hear mine, what do you think? Normal, happy,

Natalie 43:04
stable.

Scott Benner 43:04
Is it like, I wish I had that like, because I get notes from people sometimes who are like, Arden, so lucky to have a dad who blah, blah, and a mom who and I, and I think all the time, like, how is that lucky? Isn't that the minimum I should expect from my parents? Oh, absolutely. But in most people's lives, it's lucky, you know what? I mean,

Natalie 43:25
yeah, unfortunately, yeah, no, I get what you're saying. You know I mean,

Scott Benner 43:29
no, listen to your list for a second. Your grandmother, your mom, your dad, your sister, the guy you met who rolled over on you and got you pregnant. Yeah, his dad, your sister, everybody you walk into the guy over here, the guy over here, like, you never once bump into somebody who's like, oh my god, Natalie, you're you're so lovely. You should be in the spelling bee with me. And you go, Oh my god, the spelling bee, that'd be wonderful. Nothing like that ever happens to you. Which indicates that you're so surrounded by it. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Jesus Christ,

Natalie 44:02
I'm a firm believer. Of, like, no, also, like, the laws of attraction, we attract people like us, you know, like, quote, unquote, like, normal people don't hang out with drug addicts. Well, yeah,

Scott Benner 44:13
I mean, there's, there's a fair statement for you, like, like, like, you

Natalie 44:18
know what I mean, like, I'm not going to be appealing to like, like, if me and you were to cross paths on the street, even having a conversation that's probably not ever going to go any further than that conversation, because we just have two different lifestyles. I

Scott Benner 44:30
could think you're lovely, have a great time talking to you, but you think there's some level where I'm going to I would go. It seems like maybe trouble. And no thank you. But would you see me and think, like, oh my god, stable. Like, how do I make this happen? Or do you think, no, I gotta go find a drug addict, because that's how I fit. See what I'm saying.

Natalie 44:47
The search was always to find somebody better and more stable than me. For

Scott Benner 44:51
sure, literally, just couldn't identify anybody and get and bring them into your life, into your sphere. Yeah.

Natalie 44:57
I mean, who would want, who would want to deal with this hot. Mess. You know what? I mean, nobody wants I mean, I'm sure you want to be captain save a hoe. They'd be like, that's a mess. Sorry.

Scott Benner 45:09
You know what's funny is, later I will get like, somebody will like, someone's gonna write a note that say I was like, insensitive to you, or I don't understand blah, blah, blah. They'll skip right over the part where you said Captain save a hoe talking about yourself, by the way, they'll just be like, no one will bring that up when they're yelling at me for doing this wrong. Later. I love what my job it's ridiculous. Holy Okay, Jesus Christ. Texas doesn't work. I have a hard time keeping up with this. Texas doesn't work. You know, you head back home, you get home to find out there's a warrant for you, and they and they arrest you, correct. How did they find you, though, like, how do they know you're back?

Natalie 45:45
I was at a bus stop.

Scott Benner 45:47
Oh, go ahead

Natalie 45:48
that that boyfriend that came to Texas with me. I was at a bus stop, and I think we were yelling at each other, and a cop happened to see it. Is everybody, okay? Yeah,

Scott Benner 45:59
let me see some ID. And then they he calls the guy, and the guy goes, Yo, you got one? Yeah, basically, you there with your baby or your daughter? No,

Natalie 46:09
the whole situation, I didn't bring my daughter, necessarily, through all my drug use, because it goes on and off, on and off, on and off from the time my daughter, when we got back to Texas, of course, I had to be like, Dad, I need help get me, you know, save me. And his stipulation was, either you live here or your daughter lives here, you're both not living here. It's a It's weird. My dad, my dad's weird. That's a whole nother thing, trust me.

Scott Benner 46:37
Hey, Natalie, you're all give yourself some credit. You're all weird. Don't worry about it. I'm weird too, but in a different way. But go ahead,

Natalie 46:49
my sister had taken my daughter, well, I went to my dad's okay. So which my daughter probably has a terrific story for you and her her growing up, because that's so cool

Scott Benner 47:01
when you put her with the lady who gave you meth for the first time for a while. Yes,

Natalie 47:05
yes. See my sister when we got in trouble for, you know that mixer that I bought at Macy's, my sister went to prison for that. Get out of here, he didn't get her life together. Yeah, I think she did two years and when she got out of prison, she's completely changed her life like she didn't. I mean, she's had her hiccups here and there, but she's her life.

Scott Benner 47:26
She completely changed her life, except for that six months where she muelled And like, oh God, exactly.

Natalie 47:33
Let's say she she went, can't even explain it, because her situation was bad. They saw because she got into an abusive relationship, I'm sorry. But other other than that, like, as far as the drugs and stuff like that, she cleaned her life up from that part that was just like the dysfunction that happens behind closed doors, or was, until she got out of that. But at the time, I did,

Scott Benner 47:54
all right, so they pick you up at the by the way, I've never even been to a bit this is going to sound very like, I don't actually, is this bougie? I don't know if I've ever been to a bus stop.

Natalie 48:03
You know, I felt the same way. I felt the same way. I never even so at that time, I'm what, 26 and when I got back from Texas, that was the first time I ever had to ride a bus too. I didn't even know what to do, okay? I was like, what? Like, I had asked. I was like, Where do I put this money? Like, you don't put money in here. You need to go across the street and buy a bus ticket. I'm like, oh, okay, even

Scott Benner 48:27
the arguing in public Natalie, like, it wouldn't occur to me to do that. And if I started it, like, if I was with somebody and we were getting loud, somebody would be like, Hey, let's, you know we're in public. Like, let's stop. Like, I know that for sure. It's, it's just really interesting. So okay, what kind of jail do you do? Normal? That's a normal.

Natalie 48:45
Oh yeah, that's how normal people would respond.

Scott Benner 48:49
We're in public. We probably shouldn't be screaming at each other. I live my life under very basic rules, like, I don't do anything that would draw the cops attention. That's my rule. Like, don't, get arrested. I don't want to get arrested. I don't like the I very simple ideas about how to live a happy life. That's at the top of my list, honestly, yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother one time. He's great now, but he was like, a really, like, troubled little kid, like, and my parents were divorced, and, like, I get why, right? And I used to tell him, like, because I was young, I was like, Look, just don't do anything that. If a cop knew about it, they'd be upset about like, that's how I that when I was when I was 13. That's how I talked to my little brother, because it was, like, the clearest thing I could think of to help him. But how long do you go to jail for, though?

Unknown Speaker 49:36
So

Natalie 49:37
I ended up, when I went in to jail, they gave me no time served, meaning my house arrest didn't count, and the 15 days of work release and account so I did three months you

Scott Benner 49:49
owed the whole three months. Okay? And are you taking care of your diabetes at that point better?

Natalie 49:55
You know, I would. I would at least give me myself the long acting. And then I gave myself short acting based on if I if I do what I was going to eat. Well, I think I maybe protect my blood sugar once every few days, right? So for people

Scott Benner 50:09
who's who take, you know, care of the of their health, you know, their diabetes health, can you describe them? How much of a week did you think about diabetes? Like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to show that like, you know what I mean, zero, not at all. No, okay. Like, not at all. The idea that you'd be hurting your health. Ever pop into your head? No, no. But

Natalie 50:37
you also have to think at this time, I was on state assistance. I saw only a primary care doctor, and I, of course, was given only the cheapest insulin. And they okay, they would do my a, 1c never wanted to be like, okay, so you're at 11. You should probably bring that down a little bit.

Scott Benner 50:56
Did you have any understanding of what any of that meant, or what the repercussions were?

Natalie 51:00
I mean, I knew a little bit just like based on like, what my mom has said, I never knew like based on like experience, because my mom didn't have any complications until, like, her last year of death, when she lost her legs. I mean, that her legs, yeah, middle of COVID.

Scott Benner 51:20
How old was she when she passed? Uh,

Natalie 51:21
she was 67

Scott Benner 51:23
okay. Are you okay? Like, now, I

Natalie 51:28
am. I'm good. Now, you know, like, I've been on Omnipod now since I saw my first very endocrinologist at 35 really, 35 Yeah, 35 years old.

Unknown Speaker 51:41
So you know,

Scott Benner 51:42
you're the first person I've ever spoken to who I asked how old they were when they were diagnosed. You're like, I'm not 100% sure. Yeah,

Natalie 51:50
I don't there was no, I've never been hospitalized for my diabetes, like, what so ever. I didn't even know pumps were, like, a thing that, like, helped. I thought you had to buy them out of pocket. I didn't even know until my doctor was like, Hey, let's get you on a pump. I'm like, I can do that. They're like, Yeah, your insurance will cover it. I was like, Oh, I have that kind of insurance. I didn't even know

Scott Benner 52:12
I got fancy lady insurance. I

Natalie 52:14
know, I know my work gives me free something, but I didn't know it was like, this much free.

Scott Benner 52:18
Okay, so Natalie, let's stop for a second. When's the last time you were high at what age 37 All right, three years ago, and in the last three years, you've been taking very good care of yourself.

Natalie 52:31
Yes, yes, I've lost 65 pounds. My a 1c is 6.2 which is the lowest it's ever been for me. Wow, that's great. Yeah, I also just got married a month ago. Congratulations. Like Life is good for me. Now,

Scott Benner 52:49
it took a while. Is it fair to say we have a lot of life left, but is it fair to say that once you had clarity away from drugs and drinking that you were it was easier to take care of yourself?

Natalie 52:59
Oh, yeah, for sure, I still don't, Hey, God, I hate to say this. I hate being defined. Saying, Oh, I'm diabetic. Like, I I really don't like, just like, I don't like saying I'm an addict, you know, I feel like it puts a label on me. And I feel kind of just like, hey, I have this thing that, like, I can share my experience with you, and hopefully it'll help somebody else out. I try not to let even my diabetes run my life, but it does. It absolutely does now, because I care now, and since, you know, watching my mom die, it kind of put like this thing, like, just clicked in my head and it was like, Okay, so let's say the magic number for me, let's just say, in my family history is living 30 or how old was she? She was 17 years or longer than that. I don't even know how to do math. 2727 years. Yeah, 27 years of her having diabetes. What if I only have 27 years to live with diabetes? Like, I'm already out of, like, almost 20 of those. Like, I only got a few years left, and that's what clicked it off for me. I was like, I cannot do to my daughter what my mother did to me. I can't do it. You

Scott Benner 54:07
never once thought I'm using meth. What if I don't have a lot of time left? People with the who use meth don't live very long. Like it was this, like, you get clarity from the drugs, clarity from drinking. Saw your mom pass away and still said to yourself, I might not have a lot of time left. I don't want my daughter to feel the way I feel right now.

Natalie 54:29
Wow, yeah, geez, people, I had gone to COVID and I was pissed off, and it didn't kill me, really. And that's when I got clean. Yeah, I woke up one day and I literally, like, I literally took the bag of drugs that we had just gotten that we couldn't do because we were so freaking sick. I jumped down this toilet and I was like, I was done. It's like, I'm done. People

Scott Benner 54:47
say COVID was bad, but it stopped you from doing

Natalie 54:53
Yeah, yeah. I was pissed. I tried it a couple times. Just couldn't

Scott Benner 54:56
you literally woke up and you thought, Jesus Christ, am I still alive? Yeah,

Natalie 55:00
yes,

Scott Benner 55:00
I guess I ought to pull this together then, yeah, damn. That's ridiculous. Like, I don't mean ridiculous. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I

Natalie 55:09
like, that's what it took. Yeah, it's

Scott Benner 55:11
ridiculous. That that's what happened where you're like, okay, I'm good. Now I'll stop. Yeah, Jesus, huh? Walking down the street, I passed 50 people. How many of them are doing meth that I'm not aware of it? Oh,

Natalie 55:24
I don't know. I mean, in a way, probably a lot of people think about all the people that abuse Adderall. It's very similar. You can live a double life with it. You really could, like, the when I was doing meth in my 30s, like, most recently, before I got clean, like nobody would have known that's a double life. I kept my corporate job. I actually I had a side business doing Turo. I mean, I would flip cars. I'm buying and selling like I

Scott Benner 55:50
got two streams income over here, Scott. I got one that pays the bills and one pays for the menu. Yeah. Well, to pay for that, yeah,

Natalie 55:56
exactly. How

Scott Benner 55:58
old your daughter now? She's

Natalie 55:58
going to be 21 in a couple weeks. All

Scott Benner 56:01
right, has she used, is she an alcoholic, anything like that, or does she, like, run the complete opposite direction? To you? So far from what

Natalie 56:09
I know of, she ran the complete opposite direction. However, I see a lot of the same behaviors where that switch could flip on her. Like, it could totally click in at any time for her, but I've never had to deal with her. Like, what does that answer? Anything that like, I've never, she's never, like, been in trouble for it. Well, she's always kept a job, she was in school, like she was a decent person, a human being, so far,

Scott Benner 56:38
if I described so, look, this is, this is, this is the less fun part of my job. You're very much like you described your mom, like, great when our great problem, when I'm a problem. And if we, if I get your daughter over here and I read that aces list to her, how many of those things do you think she's going to say, Yeah, I grew up with that stuff. Absolutely,

Natalie 56:57
at 100% all of them, however, the little flip with that is is that while my sister had my daughter when nobody knew there was all that physical abuse going on in that household, that's what most of her childhood is going to be like. The only reason like my daughter C when I let my my sister take care of my daughter because I thought she was going to be in a better situation, my daughter was told that me and her dad didn't want her. I was told that she didn't want to come home and live with me. So when I found out that there was actual physical abuse, or just abuse in general, going on in that house, she didn't have a choice anymore, and I wiped her off and she came to live with me. She didn't have a choice. So

Scott Benner 57:38
your sister decided to tell you one thing while telling your daughter another thing, because she thought that your daughter was better off with her, and that was making you think that your daughter didn't want to be with you, but then you found out that there was abuse between your sister and her spouse, and then you use that to extract your daughter,

Natalie 57:59
correct? Yeah. So my my daughter, has probably been more witnessed to the kind of views that you see on, like, lifetime TV, right? You know, like the men abusing the wife and the children, than I ever did growing up. You know what I mean? I witnessed the views happening, which was my mom was, like, drunk and crazy and wild, you know. And it was totally different kind of abuse, like this ban was the kind of abuse that and he's a band that didn't drink or do drugs like he's just a mad, angry person type abuse. Did

Scott Benner 58:28
he abuse your daughter like hit her little bit, little bits have

Natalie 58:32
come out of some of the things he's done. As time goes on, she's gotten more open about what's gotten on in that household. I don't think he physically abused her. He almost had a couple times Okay, and my sister would jump in. If

Scott Benner 58:47
you were your daughter, what would you want from you? I was my daughter. What would you want from you? Like, yeah,

Natalie 58:55
stay the way I am now. Okay? I would hope so. Anyways,

Scott Benner 59:02
you think you can do that?

Natalie 59:03
I do think I can do that. You know, there's, of course, there's no 100% guarantees. But I also think, given the tools of, you know, like a a sponsorship therapy, you know, keeping a job, you know, doing things like with my fitness, you know, I decided to become a personal trainer on the side. You know, like, constantly improving myself is only going to keep me, like, doing better. Yeah.

Scott Benner 59:28
Do you have any other autoimmune issues? Do you have Hashimotos or anything like that? I do. I do. I thought you did? Your mom have it too? You want to

Natalie 59:37
get into medical history? Oh my gosh, my mom. Yeah, she has the diabetes. She just had an under active thyroid. My dad actually had thyroid cancer when he was 15, and had his thyroid review. And my sister had Hashimotos, and then she also got thyroid cancer, and then she also has a heart condition. And

Scott Benner 59:55
Ms, you guys manage the thyroid well. I mean. Know, I mean, you do the blood work every six months and stuff like that.

Natalie 1:00:05
I do. I do. I feel like, I mean, if you really want to get into, like, the healthcare part of it, I really think that there could be more done. I do watch what I eat, because I do notice that, like, what I eat, not just the diabetes. I get inflamed, and I learned recently about flare ups and Hashimotos. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing,

Scott Benner 1:00:23
like your TSH, maybe spikes goes up higher and, yeah, yeah.

Natalie 1:00:29
They're like, Oh, you're having a flare up. I'm like, what does that mean? What is this? I didn't even know. Do

Scott Benner 1:00:35
you keep your TSH, is there a number you keep it at? Or do they just tell you it's in range?

Natalie 1:00:40
They just tell me it's in range. I don't actually know what my my numbers are. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:00:44
we would like to see it under two. But the reason I bring it up is because the inflammation from the autoimmune in general, right? And then a thyroid, you know, anxiety, other I mean, you can look through everything that kind of comes with with Hashimotos when it's unregulated, some of the things you described could be related to that. I mean, people who have autoimmune issues are now finding, like, a lot of value with GLP medications, right? But GLP medications at the same time are also being talked about, about reducing people's other addictions. And you just kind of, like, start wondering about, like, what's all in the soup? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I would start by making sure your thyroid, like, I'm trying to think of ways to give yourself, like, long term success so you can be the person you want to be, and your daughter gets the mom she, you know, deserves, and all that stuff. Like, like, I would talk to your doctor and say, Look, I want to know what my TSH is, and if it's under like two 2.1 or if it's over two 2.1 I'd like to maybe ramp up my medication a little bit to bring it under, to see if I have any alleviation of symptoms. I have more mental clarity, energy, like all these little things that impact people, you know, yeah, Jeez, what made you want to come on the podcast? Well, first

Natalie 1:02:00
it was, hey, that's cool. And then, like, I listened to other people's story, I was like, Yeah, I can relate, like, all those after dark ones I'm totally obsessed with, because those are my people. I get them also. I think a real part of me saying this person who I have become is also about sharing my story, okay, you know, and the way I felt I could relate to other people, hopefully somebody else can relate to me. And there's so many people on that Facebook group, I mean, it'll just reach out more friendships, yeah, and I think that's actually how it started at this because somebody had made a comment about having to go to jail and being diabetic. I was like, Hey, let me tell you what it was. Blah, was like. They made sure I stayed alive. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:02:45
I was gonna say, were you actually taking care of yourself? And, like, what was that three months like with diabetes? So when

Natalie 1:02:51
I was in tent city, it was because everybody got taken into, like, the doctor, the healthcare area twice a day, once in the morning, once at night. So that's when I would go so they would test my blood sugar, they gave me the long acting insulin once a day, and then they would give me the short acting based on what my blood sugar is. But before they would test your blood sugar once, then they made you drink a liter of water, wait 15 minutes, and then they test you again, and then they would no steer insulin based on that. Yeah, they can't be alive also, yeah, they kept us alive. Yeah, yeah. And it was, like the middle of summer in Arizona, and it was just warm. I mean, that was the least of

Scott Benner 1:03:33
you wait the condos you're in on air conditioned. What's going on? So

Natalie 1:03:38
10 city is literally army tent. Yeah, you sleep outside. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:03:42
Tell people about it, please. Yeah.

Natalie 1:03:44
So, I mean, they've taken it down now, which I guess is good, I don't know, but you literally, it's like a dirt, rock area, and there's, think there might have been, like eight tents in this chain link fence that I was in, and then under each tent. And you know that they're the big army tents that roll up on the sides and everything. Yeah, there's one big, giant fan that pushes air through one side to the other. And I think there was, honestly, there might have been 12 months. I could be wrong on a number per tent. Yeah, there, I want to say there's about 12. There might have been less than that for 10, and it was considered like, people who went to 10, I had to fight with a sergeant to get out to tent city, because you get less time. You'll get, like, two for ones, just for being out there. And you get to work,

Scott Benner 1:04:31
if you're willing to be incarcerated in the tent, it shortens your time because it's correct. It extra sucks, yes,

Natalie 1:04:38
and because you get put to work. You know, you go you go to food for inside the jail. You could be put on the chain gang. You get to work with the animals. But I wasn't allowed to do any of that stuff because of my diabetes. So I gotta rake rocks. Like, literally, I just raked rocks. I literally took a rake, walked up and down. Was this. Usually punishment, like, if you had your shirt on top, you had to break the rocks. But that's what I did to keep myself busy. I just break the rocks. That

Scott Benner 1:05:07
was your day. That was my day. What goes through your head? What do you think about with all that free time? How good I

Natalie 1:05:13
felt, these clean, really clarity. I could go I could go to sleep and sleep. Well, I could take a nap whenever I wanted it with, well, I mean, it was hot, but, I mean, you sleep. I had so much anxiety when I had to go home, because I knew it would just start up again. I knew it

Scott Benner 1:05:30
what would start up again by using okay, even though I knew it so you were, you were better off raking rocks in tent city than you were going to be when you got home. Yeah,

Natalie 1:05:41
it was kind of like Girl Scout camp, like, it's not, like, it sounds stupid, but, I mean, you got a lot of people in there that were, like, it was a lot of DUI. So, you know, you had your nurses, you had teachers, you had your moms. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like hardcore criminals, if you know what. I mean, it was people who made mistakes and that have lives on the outside. Well, you could hear about other people's lives. You get, I don't know, you met some cool people. Of course there, there were some that were, I don't know, you could tell which ones were the tweakers, but I don't fit in with those, because I had this like, I didn't fit in with what they looked like or even how they acted. So it wasn't a tweaker, like, person, even though I did it so interesting, I know it is weird.

Scott Benner 1:06:25
Is the thought I have anxiety because I know I'm going to go home and do drugs again, or are you planning on doing them? Like, are you standing there going, Oh my God, I feel great, but I know, and I leave here, this is what I'm going to do. Like, did it feel like a decision you were making or a thing that was going to happen to you.

Natalie 1:06:41
I didn't get out. Of course, I didn't get out thinking, Oh, I can't wait to go, you trust I'm just going to go, you drugs, call everybody that I used to hang out with. I think it was just more of like that depression, of knowing I was like, stuck and I didn't know how to get out of it. You know, at that time, in my early 20s or mid 20s, I didn't know how to keep a job at all, like my anxiety was so off the charts. I didn't even know how to talk to people, like, if people used to come up and talk to me like I would cry, like I used to not even be able to get gas in my car without somebody being with because I was so scared all the time. And that definitely stems from my childhood, for sure, why? So I don't know. I was just always so scared, like, even in school, if a teacher would call on me, like it would take everything in me to not shake and cry, because I just didn't want to talk. It was crazy.

Scott Benner 1:07:33
So I think the idea is, if you grow up around alcoholism, there's this feeling that something's always about to, like, happen, and you kind of can't tell when it's going to happen.

Natalie 1:07:46
Yeah, you're like, in this constant fight or flight mode, yeah, yeah. I remember going to sleep as a child that was like that,

Scott Benner 1:07:54
just waiting for the other shoe to drop, like, when? When's this gonna happen? Like, and then how do so, if I stay quiet, maybe it won't happen. Or if I'm quiet, maybe they won't see me when it's happening.

Natalie 1:08:05
So I think it's more of like they won't see me. Okay, so

Scott Benner 1:08:09
once those people go back crazy, if I'm not on the radar, maybe I get through this unscath, yes, right, exactly. And that sticks with you as an

Natalie 1:08:18
adult, for sure. Even now I'm like, okay, like, I don't know, just like everybody around me and like, what I do, it'd be like, Okay, I'm just going to get a little bit further in my seat. Just stay here, do my time, go home, as long as nobody knows what I'm doing. We're good. Like, no news is good news.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
How does it work at work, though, when you're at like, a corporate job, like, you don't have those feelings there. I

Natalie 1:08:41
don't anymore. I've really, I've been promoted three times already, like, since this job, like, what I am doing is being seen and I'm being heard. And kind of crazy, how much I've come out of my skin. But I also think that, like, how much, like, I have grown like, even talking to you this would, I would have never even been willing to do this years ago, but with me, like I lived in the halfway house on an Well, actually, mostly on for about four years. I stayed there because it was comfortable. And in that return, I had to get a job, and I had to learn how to like function in life, and that's what made me all of a sudden grow up. I didn't become an adult until my late 20s. I still feel like I'm probably, maybe like, 3031, I'm probably at the same, like, you know, like, financially, I'm probably the same as somebody in the early 30s. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:09:28
I was just looking here while you were talking growing up with alcoholic parents. Have significant, lasting effects on child's development. Some ways are you can have emotional and physical effects, like increased anxiety or stress, depression, low self esteem. We didn't talk about your self esteem. Is it something that's been better over recently, or has it always been okay?

Natalie 1:09:48
I'm sure I've always had really low self esteem. I kind of feel especially younger, younger I definitely did. And since I've been an adult, like, since I've been to jail, like, when it comes to my physical appearance. When I went to jail, if you want to feel good about yourself, go take a shower with 50 other women. You realize that everybody has beautiful bodies, like in their own way. Or you're like, holy crap, my body looks great compared to her. And I know that's that's awful to say, but like,

Scott Benner 1:10:16
it's true, jail showers made you feel good about yourself.

Natalie 1:10:19
Absolutely. I was like, wow, I don't have any stretch marks. I've had a kid. Did you know what I mean? Like, oh, I got a little pooch. Like, you know what I mean? When you prepare yourself, I'm like, Okay, I'm not doing

Scott Benner 1:10:33
nobody cares either, right? Exactly,

Natalie 1:10:35
yeah. But when you think about self esteem, sometimes, like, when it comes to like, even, like, with me applying for jobs, and these corporate jobs that I've worked for, and I work for the big international company, it's like, do you tell them about your past? Because it's going to come up in a in a background check. Like, how honest Do you want to be? Or how honest do you need? So far, I've been completely honest, have

Scott Benner 1:10:59
you really? And how's that gone? Because meth is a thing I would think would just turn people right off.

Natalie 1:11:04
Most people have been very supportive, like, Wow. I would never guess that is crazy. I want to hear a story. You know, I'm not always willing to tell them a story unless they actually ask something specific. I do know my current boss right now comes from law enforcement, and so for her to immediately flip the switch of always, which I I knew about the conversation I had with her, she was very judgy of people with criminal backgrounds, right? For knowing me has completely changed,

Scott Benner 1:11:38
you know, so having these conversations has helped me a lot too. Yeah, that's why I'm always sort of just looking for, like, how did that happen? Or like, you didn't ever think this way or that? Like, why not? I wonder. Like, not like, why didn't you? But like, I wonder why you didn't. And, you know, like, yeah, it's just, it's a different way of thinking about it. By the way, behavioral and social effects difficulty with relationships. Children of Alcoholics struggle distrust, and they find it challenging to form healthy, stable relationships. You, of course, are at an increased risk of substance abuse. Yourself having behavioral issues, having academic struggles, which I think happened, didn't really have an opportunity to happen to you because you were doing well right up until you weren't at school. But you know, there's your point. Once it happens, you're in trouble, physical health neglect, developmental delays, chronic stress and poor living conditions can lead to delays in physical and emotional development. Long term, some children of alcoholics may develop a strong drive to over achieve or to be perfect and attempt to gain approval or avoid the chaos associated with their parents. Addiction. Many children of alcoholics caretaker role, feeling responsible for their parents well being, which can eventually lend lead to burnout and resentment. That's not going to end up it sounds like that might happen to your sister, actually? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. But increased resilience, despite the challenges, some children develop strong coping mechanisms and resilience that may they may become highly independent, resourceful and empathetic, though these traits often come at a cost of their own emotional well being. Sound like you? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. About that, well, don't make a baby if you're drinking a lot,

Natalie 1:13:12
because no more babies. For me, I'm

Scott Benner 1:13:14
talking to everybody else. You're 25 right now, and you're like, I just drink through the weekend. Now's not the time to start a family. Maybe because 40 years from now, whoever I am, 40 years from now, is going to be talking to your kid going tell me what your mom did. And, you know, very avoidable. Natalie, lately, I've been really overwhelmed with how avoidable so many of the stories I hear are, whether it's health and, you know, just having a doctor who understood a little better or took five more minutes, or you know that, or if it's, you know, a parent who, you know, doesn't make a baby when impregnated during an FBI raid. Because we can all just make these very avoidable decisions, like how much differently other people's lives turn out. It sucks that when you're 19, you don't have the ability to know your 21 year old daughter. Because if you were 19 on Christmas morning and you felt that love that you have for your kid right now, and this guy was like, hey, you know what we should do? You'd be like, hey, you know what? Get a condom buddy, because I don't want to disappoint this little girl that I love so much. I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous, but in my mind, like lately, I've just been I just, I keep hearing stories and thinking just if you just would have zigged when you zagged, or if somebody would have given you a chance, or, you know, a parent would have done a halfway decent job for you. Yeah, you know, you wouldn't hear all these stories anyway. You're bumming me. The out is what I'm saying. No, I'm really, I've been sincerely, a gum I'm really happy that you, that you chose to share the story as much as you think. Like, my story is I went to jail, you know what I mean, like, and I had diabetes. Like, I don't think that's the story at all. I think the story is that. You're, you know, two probably well meaning, lovely alcoholic, 20 year olds, you know, had you 40 years ago? Yeah, that's just kind of how I see it. But anyway, yeah, absolutely. How was this for you? Any good? It was cool. I liked it. Did you good? I'm glad. How do I do because I'm always afraid that I'm gonna, like, straddle the line on the wrong side when I'm trying to have these conversations.

Natalie 1:15:25
No, you gotta, you gotta ask the the tough, the tough questions. Thank

Scott Benner 1:15:29
you. I appreciate that. Like, the fact,

Natalie 1:15:31
the fact that you're like, uh, like, why? Like, you realize it just doesn't seem normal,

Scott Benner 1:15:38
you know, like, it's funny. Like,

Natalie 1:15:39
you do realize this, right? Yeah, you're

Scott Benner 1:15:42
hearing what you're saying, aren't you? Like, I God, I can't think of the one is recently it went up. You maybe, you know, because I think you listen to these. I stopped in the middle and I said, Hey, PSA, don't let a guy who lives in a van get you pregnant. Like, I was like, I was like, I don't know. I didn't realize that needed to be said, okay, but punch him in the face and roll Yeah? And I wonder if you realize, or people who find themselves in the situation you've been in over the years, if you knew that like 50 people like me heard your story, it's where it feels like nobody cares about each other, right? Like people who end up growing up in your situation say nobody cares, nobody understands, and people who aren't in your situation are like, You ought to, like, take some personal responsibility and get out of this, not understanding. I mean, it's why I read the ACES list. It's not personal under it's not, I mean, it's not you not taking control. Somebody dug a hole 20 feet deep and then put a trap door in the bottom of it, then dropped a baby in it. That baby was you, and said, Hey, see if you can climb out of this hole. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The people I'm gonna give you to help are a lady who pulls knives on people, drinks a lot, does drugs, a guy who's doing better than her but isn't doing that much better than her. Don't worry, though, one day, her sister will help her by giving her meth, like this baby's not getting out of this hole. Yeah, you know what I mean? And those are the people like You're like the worst episode of Dora, the Explorer, like your monkeys high. You know what I mean? It's a backpack that's drunk and a monkey on meth trying to help you get through the jungle. And you're like, and they're like, oh, no, no, we ain't getting you out of here. You nailed it. So you're in this you're a baby in a terrible situation. And by the way, the people who raised you very well could have been babies in terrible situations at one point. Yeah, someone's got to stand up and push the guy in the van off of them, like work. And I'm not saying it's up to women to make good like, you know, it's up to guys to make good decisions. Like, people just need to make better decisions in pivotal moments. And then all these very unavoidable things don't happen, absolutely. But it's not what happens Natalie and then in the end, it becomes, you know, it's every four years time to run for president, and so we all spend two and a half years talking about the things leading up to the Jesus. It feels like somebody's always running for president, but people have these conversations in their real lives, and somehow always boil it down to, well, they should take personal responsibility. Well, yeah, they should. But what are you going to do? Like the baby's in the bottom of the hole and you're yelling down to it, take personal responsibility. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I don't know what to do. What if we just said nobody could have a baby for like, five years? Do you think that would give everybody time to reset or something? I don't know.

Natalie 1:18:38
You know, I really feel like the newer generation is having babies less and less.

Scott Benner 1:18:42
Yeah, but that's not good either. We're gonna run out of people,

Natalie 1:18:46
because the ones that are having babies are the ones that shouldn't be having babies,

Scott Benner 1:18:50
even if you say like, you ever noticed this? But this is gonna sound very generalized, and if you're a person with a lot of kids, I'm not talking just please try not to get upset. You ever noticed that people who are like all like, wow, they really do seem to have it together. And they really are doing well. Those people have one or two kids, and then, like, the guy who's got, like, a sign on their front yard that says something very strange that you drive by every day and go, like, I hope that guy doesn't shoot me. Like, he seems to have seven people, like children, and you're just like, how are we even gonna, like, rebalance this? Like, I just need a couple of common sense people to make some babies. I don't know. It's just very strange. I don't know how any of this gets fixed for you personally or for like, because now your daughter's 21 the real hope here is that your daughter waits to have a baby until she's sorted through all of her crap. Yes, that's pretty much all we that's what we should all be doing, not just people who are your kid, but my kids should do the same thing. Everybody. Just get through your before you bring someone else into your mess. You don't mean exactly super simple. Yes. Yes, but I don't know. It's hard to do. It just really, I don't know, you go to a party and my guy's a pretty girl. Next thing you know, you're like, we could probably have a baby, and you're too young to know what's wrong with you still. You know what I mean? Took you to 37 to figure out what you needed to fix. Yeah, I had problems I didn't know about my it took my wife being like, hey, that stuff's not okay. And I'm like, Oh my God, she's right, but I actually had to listen to her and then, like, work over and over again at trying to, like, level that stuff out. And then she had do the same and and we still had kids too early, so my kids are going to have problems that were avoidable if we would have waited longer. But I don't know. I don't know the answer to any of this. I'm just talking, but, yeah, sucks. You know what I mean? Like, I just feel, I feel better. It

Natalie 1:20:48
also, it kind of probably sucks. Also, being your position, hearing all these things about other people, and you're constantly, like, with the what the like, all the time. You know, I'm

Scott Benner 1:20:59
also tired today. I'd

Natalie 1:21:00
be able to do it. I just feel like, yeah, it's like, it is what it is, you know, what? What can I do? I just make it better, you know, try to help the next one. You know, let's I had a very

Scott Benner 1:21:11
long weekend, and it's funny, because I think if I told you what I did this weekend, you'd be like, if I got that much effort out of my parents spread out over 10 years, I would have been okay. Arden came home from college end of her sophomore year, and took her a while, and then she's like, I don't want to go back there. Here are my reasons, and some of her reasons were very, very poor direction from staff at the school. I am gonna, at some point tell the story of like, something that a teacher said to her that will absolutely anybody who's paid for five minutes worth of college, it will just lure you. Oh, and she's like, I I'm gonna change directions. You know, took her a while to, like, get up the courage to even tell us that. Then she told us, but so she's starting up at a new college next month or next week. Excuse me, but we had until next Monday to get her stuff out of her her place 700 miles from here. Oh, on Friday after Arden got sick last week. So our last week was we came home from vacation. Arden got very sick. My father in law passed away. We went to his funeral. Three days later, we had to get into a car and drive 700 miles to go pick up her stuff, but she was still sick. Oh, so she and I drove that time. She drove in one car because we needed both cars to bring it back. I drove in another one. We left our house at six o'clock on Friday, drove until like two in the morning, got a hotel room, slept, got up at eight o'clock, drove eight and a half more hours, got there, had dinner, went to sleep, got up at 5am packed her car up, and drove back home. Oh my Yeah. So I've driven 1400 miles in the last 48 hours or so, wow. And I'm I'm tired. And then on the way home last night, there was this horrible rainstorm on the East Coast. And so for about three hours last night, I was white knuckle driving, not able to see five feet in front of me. Oh, gosh. Now on top of that, knowing the knowledge of like, every decision I made my daughter was behind me in a car, like, counting on me not to run into something or hit something, yeah, and so it was horrible. I mean, I'm not kidding like I've been alive a long time. It's the worst, worst weather I've ever driven in my life. And we got home, decompressed, fell asleep, I woke up. When I woke up, my son was like, Don't forget, you have to take me. I'm like, Oh my God. Like, I so I'm like, getting dressed, I take him to this thing, I get home, and then I ate two eggs, and now I'm talking to you, dang. I feel like I'm doing a bad job today. I don't know if I am, but I don't feel as clear as I want to be to have this conversation with you. Well, do you at least get a rest after this? Arden has a doctor's appointment she has to be at in three hours that I'm taking her to. Oh, in between there, I have nothing to do,

Natalie 1:24:02
go take a nap. But

Scott Benner 1:24:04
am I wrong? Like, if we got into a time machine and went back and you said, Mom, Dad, I need you to drive with me 1400 miles, round trip in two days to help me with something. Do you think your parents would be like, Yeah, let's go at this stage. Absolutely no. How about back then, back then 20 years ago, maybe, maybe, like, if

Natalie 1:24:25
I wasn't, like, an attitude, like, I think so, okay, yeah, only because there's, there's been a couple times where my parents had driven, taken a few trips to go save my sister in a different state, type thing, you know, like, or try and change her situation around. When she wasn't doing well, they put a lot of effort in my sister. Yeah, I think they just kind of backed off with me being like, we can't save her. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:24:48
it's interesting, though, isn't it, to watch people who are so steeped in a problem that even though they want to and I would believe that, I would believe that your parents love you and care about you, and why. Want to do something good for you, when you don't know what that means, and you're put into that situation, then the help you give is often it's help on that level. It's not the kind of help. It's actually going to get you out of a thing, correct? Do you think that you actually needed the legal trouble to break free of all this? Absolutely? Yeah, everyone, 100%

Natalie 1:25:20
absolutely being even though I was at a very limited capacity on being a good mother, as soon as I became a mother, it changed everything to me, like she is the blessing I didn't know I needed in my life. You know, a lot of the expenses that her life. You know, unfortunately for her, she's had to deal with a lot of trauma and pain that she didn't deserve, but she saved my life. She gave me a reason to want to be better and to do better. Yeah,

Scott Benner 1:25:50
it's got to be something. I mean, it's part of the human condition. It just has to be, because the amount of people who will tell me all the time like, you know, I didn't really take good care of my diabetes until I had a baby, or wanted to have a baby, or met this girl, and I knew like I wanted to be married and have a family, and so I had to do this thing. Like everyone, every adult who struggled through their teens, early 20s, with their diabetes, who no longer does, has some version of that story. I mean, not everyone, a lot of them, you know what? I mean, like some version of, uh, I couldn't do it for me, but I was able to do it for somebody else. Yeah, that's that story, and that is what happened to you with but with drugs instead. Yeah, diabetes, absolutely. And then your diabetes care came along after you were clear and you felt better. Yeah, got it all right, yep. Well, I appreciate you doing this with me and for laying that out like that, because I believe more people than we would want to think are in your situation.

Natalie 1:26:53
Yeah, unfortunate, yeah, but yeah. Well, thanks for having me, though. Are

Scott Benner 1:26:57
you kidding me? Thanks for having me. You don't send a note about Tent City and jail and meth. I think a guy

Natalie 1:27:05
already get more into the tent city thing. I know a lot of people are really excited to hear about that. I mean, kind of hard to talk about. Also, you know what? I mean, it's like what you see like on TV and what you hear about and read about, that's how it was. Yeah, you know,

Scott Benner 1:27:20
listen, I don't think anybody listening doesn't hear 10 city and can't fill in the blanks. You know what? I mean? Yeah, I mean, you're arrested for something. It's not nothing. I'm not saying it's nothing, but you know, it's not it's more socially acceptable. Well, you didn't commit a crime with a grand gun, you didn't hurt anybody, like, that kind of stuff, like, right? So you're gonna go to jail, and rightfully so. That's fine outside in Arizona in a

Natalie 1:27:43
tent with a fan. Yeah, that's the part that's crazy about it. Yeah, no,

Scott Benner 1:27:47
it's insane, right? And, and you said you lost weight. Did you lose weight there?

Natalie 1:27:51
What the 65 pounds? Yeah, no, I lost, I lost that when I decided to get so then the last three years, that

Scott Benner 1:27:58
was the sober that being sober helped you with that. Yeah? Okay, yeah. Geez, you're in a good relationship now I am good for you. Excellent. Look at you. Yeah, you know I thought I was gonna say goodbye, but I wanted to reiterate, as crazy as this has all been, and God bless you, it's been crazy this story. You're only 40, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know you're only four. I know you're laughing because you're like, I know I've lived like, 17 lives, but like, but you're only 40. Your daughter is only 21 there's a real world. I mean, it's been three years. You've been clean. There's a real world where five or 10 years from now, this all just seems like a distant memory.

Natalie 1:28:35
It already does seem like a distance memory, like, I have a hard time believing a lot of the stuff that I did and I went through, like, Was that really me? Like, but I can't forget it. I don't want to, I don't want to forget how horrible I felt, the depression that came with it, the sadness, the loss of hope. That's the part I

don't want to forget. Yeah, you felt, hope, you know, but like, it's like, I I stole cars. Like,

who does that? No, I mean people. I mean, that's kind of cool at the same time, like I stole cars, like I got a mixer. I mean, you

Scott Benner 1:29:15
can see it's so crazy that you can see it from both perspectives. You're like, who would steal a person's car? This is horrible. And how cool is it that I stole a car

Natalie 1:29:24
exactly. I mean, who's gonna do that?

Unknown Speaker 1:29:26
I mean,

Scott Benner 1:29:27
I take your point while you're saying I was, like, you have now you have a foot in both sides. But like, yeah, how interesting. It'll be really interesting to see how you talk about it 10 more years from now. You know what I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you'll keep changing, if you'll be able to stay, like one foot on both sides of understanding of this, or if, as time passes and you are, quote, unquote normal for longer living a normal life, if you won't look back more harshly on it as time goes by. Oh, yeah, okay. Probably. Okay, interesting. All right, Natalie, I'm just say thank you, because I feel like I could talk to you forever, and it's not fair to anybody, because, you know, it's getting long. Thank you very, very much for doing this. Would you hold on for one second for me? Yeah, thanks.

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