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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends and welcome to episode 1196 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Helped me welcome back Erica Forsythe today Erica and I are going to discuss ambivalence and motivation. If you're interested in learning more about Erica you can find her at Erica forsythe.com. US residents who are type ones themselves or the caregivers of type ones have an unique opportunity to help move type one diabetes research forward without leaving their home. Take the survey and completed AT T one D exchange.org/juicebox. This 10 minute survey will do just that it will help move type one diabetes research forward. All you have to do is answer simple questions you will know the answers to these questions. And just like that you've helped T one D exchange.org/juice box. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout that's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box

registration is now open for the big live in person touch by type one event I will be speaking there in Orlando touched by type one.org. Go to the Programs tab and get your free tickets right now touched by type one.org. I'll see you in Orlando. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by Dexcom dexcom.com/juice box get the brand new Dexcom G seven with my link and get started today. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes, a company that's bringing people together to redefine what it means to live with diabetes. Later in this episode, I'll be speaking with Jalen, he was diagnosed with type one diabetes at 14. He's 29. Now he's going to tell you a little bit about his story. And then later at the end of this episode, you can hear my entire conversation with Jalen to hear more stories with Medtronic champions. Go to Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or search the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. Eric, Hey, welcome back.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:35
Thank you, it's good to be back.

Scott Benner 2:38
We're gonna do something that we kind of talked about in your last episode towards the end. Today we're going to talk about ambivalence. Yes. And you have some like clear thoughts about how to walk through it, I'm going to let you take the lead on this.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:51
Okay, sounds good. So I was thinking it would be helpful for us just to spend a minute or two in the beginning to define what is ambivalence? Because we might hear the word we might know the word and have some basic understanding. And sometimes I know even I will think ambivalence means that you just don't care. Or you don't know how, but it really means that you have contradictory or mixed feelings about it. I even looked at Webster definition. It's simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings, such as attraction and repulsion toward an object person or action. And the second definition, uncertainty as to which approach to follow. So you might have ambivalence about goals. You might have ambivalence towards a person towards marriage or in through our lens today, you know, ambivalence towards your your diabetes management. But certainly we can apply some of these themes and tools towards anything you might feel ambivalent towards. Well, it's

Scott Benner 3:55
interesting, because I actually think I think of the word as meaning I don't care one way or the other. Yes. Which, yeah, which is not really what you're what I'm saying here at all. Oh, that's interesting. The boards get co opted sometimes. You know, that's interesting. So simultaneously, and contradictory attitudes or feelings, simultaneous and contradictory attitudes are feeling so I feel one way and another way about the same thing. I'm ambivalent. Oh, wow. Yeah, I do misunderstand that word. Did you think that week did you like, like, I know, you understood what ambivalent meant. But do you think other people might be confused as well? Well, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:34
even as I was thinking and preparing for our this episode today, I didn't add in the definition until about 10 minutes before we started talking because I thought, You know what, I really want to understand the exact definition because I often think about like you're torn, which leads to either you're stagnant or you're blocked, and you don't really care enough to make a move, but it really is. because of these two contradictory feelings or thoughts that are happening exactly at the same time, so you're feeling torn, and

Scott Benner 5:09
then stock sort of sticks you in the middle, and you don't move one way or the other. Okay? All right, diabetes management ambivalence. What is this here that you're, that

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:17
you're so I hear this, I have certainly felt this way in my diabetes life time, and I hear it frequently. I know, I should fill in the blank Pre-Bolus, inject, take my blood sugar, watch my data, look at my data more frequently. But I just can't or I don't want to and I don't know why often is the kind of that the end piece. So there, people might present with this. Exactly, simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings of like, I know, I should. And I know all the reasons why I should, but I just can't or I don't want to, or it's hard to meet for me to remember and I don't really understand why this

Scott Benner 6:00
is happening. I know from the outside people can take that as they don't care. Do you think that that feeling can confuse you into believing you don't care when you do? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:11
Okay. Yes. Because you often you're so confused in these these, you know, contradictory feelings. You're like, well, maybe maybe I guess I just I don't care enough. Or I don't know how enough or I don't feel like it's important enough. So I guess I'm just going to stay here in this place. And this happens a lot when people are trying to think about job changes. I know what I know, I this is good enough. But I know I could do more. Like, gosh, that feels scary. And then you might feel stuck in that ambivalence spot where you're feeling content where you are, but also have that like hunger to for more, or you want to do something different.

Scott Benner 6:49
This is boiled down to simplicity to like, picking up my clothes or folding my laundry or like that, like, I know I should I want to in my heart. I know that. It's something I should not just I should be doing. But it's a thing. I don't know how to explain this. It's a thing that I know I am, right. I'm a person whose clothing is put away, but I'm not going to do it. And it's not because I have more pressing matters. I'm just going to ignore it. So can that go all the way down to something small like that? This episode is sponsored by Medtronic. diabetes, Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. And now we're going to hear from Medtronic champion. Jalen. I

Speaker 1 7:32
was going straight into high school. So it was a summer heading into high school was that particularly difficult, unimaginable, you know, I missed my entire summer. So I went to I was going to a brand new school, I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was. My hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling over an hour to the nearest endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown.

Scott Benner 8:05
Did you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 8:10
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just kept it to myself didn't really talk about it. Did

Scott Benner 8:25
you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in. I

Speaker 1 8:29
never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, it's all I see. You know, you can easily search Medtronic champions. You see people that pop up and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that motivates me started embracing more. You know how I live with type one diabetes. To

Scott Benner 8:50
hear Jay Allen's entire conversation stay till the very end. Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box to hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community. Today's episode of the podcast is sponsored by Dexcom. And I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you a little bit about the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven, the Dexcom G seven is small. It is accurate and it is easy to use. And where Arden has been wearing a Dexcom G seven since almost day one of when they came out and she's having a fantastic experience with it. We love the G six but man is the G seven small the profile so much closer to your body, the weight, you can't really feel it and that's coming from me. And I've worn one. I've worn a G six. I've worn a g7 I found both of the experiences to be lovely. But my gosh is that g7 Tiny and the accuracy has been fantastic. Arden's a onesies are right where we expect them to be. And we actually use the Dexcom clarity app to keep track of those things. That app is built right in to Arden's Dexcom G seven app on her phone iPhone? Oh, did you not know about that? You can use an iPhone or an Android device to see your Dexcom data. If you have a compatible phone, your Dexcom goes right to the Dexcom. app. You don't have to carry the receiver. But if you don't want to use the phone, that's fine. Use the Dexcom. receiver, it's up to you. Choice is yours with Dexcom dexcom.com/juicebox.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 10:25
Yes, you got me with the laundry, I know I should do fold the laundry. It would look better. And I would feel better about this space. But I just don't feel like it. Or I just am too tired. Or I'd rather do X, Y or Z. Yes.

Scott Benner 10:41
So you just let it go. But it doesn't, but you don't really let it go. You don't let it go to the point where it doesn't bother you anymore. You just don't do it. Or ask or think it or say it or whatever it is you have to accomplish. But it's still gnaws at you. Yeah, yes, yes. Oh, that's just it's very interesting, like, so go through your list here about how a person becomes ambivalent.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 11:04
Okay. Right. So I think that's when you arrive, you're you might not even know that you're in an ambivalent plays if it's if it's a larger life choice or with diabetes. But even you know, with our like, you know, house work skills, you might know that you're feeling ambivalent, because you're like, Yeah, I should, but I don't want to. And so we want, I think it's important as like, how do you get there? And can you start out feeling ambivalent from the get go? And I was thinking about that through the lens of your diabetes? And I think it really depends on the age at which you're diagnosed. A stage of life. Are you the caregiver and what's going on in your life? Are you the person living with it? And then can you be go through seasons of ambivalence? Which I have seen all of those things, but so I think it's really important to understand that like, maybe your your five year old, is diagnosed, and is doing just fine. And managing well. And then oftentimes, I know we've talked about this a lot. In their teenage years, they might come across, probably most likely ambivalent, but you as the caregiver, or the onlooker might say, I just don't care enough. Yeah, or they're

Scott Benner 12:21
not trying. Mm hmm. That's the other thing I hear people say, my kid doesn't try. I'm like, Oh, that's a weird way to think about it. You know what I mean? I just talked to somebody today, who's got a five year old, you said five year old have made it jumping in my head. And she said that, you know, if my five year old is with a cousin, and that cousin hands him a cookie, he is putting that cookie in his mouth and eating it. And he is not going to come to me and say, Hey, I just need a cookie. I need insulin, like he's not going to happen. And I feel like she said, I don't know how to make him care about that. But I don't know, I don't think it's care or not care. I definitely after talking to so many people, I definitely don't think it's because they don't care. I think everybody cares about their own health. They just find different levels of ability to follow through, or I guess different levels of less ambivalence, enough to hold them back or not. Because I've been ambivalent about things that I've done. Like, right, like, I'm like, I wish I should do this, or I should do that. I'm just I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna do it. You just kind of press through it, right? You just go do the thing. But and I've also had a situation where I've, it's frozen me, and I've done nothing, right. But why? Why does it feel like they don't care? Because I clearly cared. I had that at the dentist. Right? The dentist gave me these little trays and said, Put this glue in the tray and put the put them on and wear them once a day for 10 minutes. I mean, it just it probably couldn't be any simpler. I just don't do it. And then I'll go back to him. And I'll go, are you using the trays and I go? No. And I'm not a liar. Like we're I think a lot of you all listen, you're lying to your dentist, for example. But like not me, I just go nope, don't know why I can't bring myself to do it. And then there's poor outcomes because of it. Like I have to have other cleanings done because of it. And Ha, all right. And I'm plenty mode. I'm an active person. I'm up early, I'm awake 18 hours a day, I am accomplishing things constantly. I have some downtime. I could easily do those things. And I just won't. I know I'm not going to by the way. Why have I resolved myself to the fact that I'm not going to.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:48
That's interesting. So then I would wonder, Is that ambivalence because you don't have you're not thinking through like it's it's important enough to you do you have the desire to do it. It's our competence. How to do it. Is it denial? You know, like, Ah, I don't really cuz sometimes we get that confused as we were talking about already, like is denial ambivalence? Like it's not really an issue. But I would say denial maybe comes before ambivalence. I'm thinking about that. Yeah,

Scott Benner 15:18
I'm consciously yes to all those questions. So I don't I can't explain it to you. Because I know it's important. I know there. There are reasons why I have to do it. I know there's a, you know, something bad that happens to me if I don't do it. I'm not denying business. I just don't do it. I don't know. Is it possible I forget every day? Because I look at it. And I always think, Oh, I'll do that later. And I just never do. Never. I am before you and I started talking my definition of ambivalence about this. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:58
I wrote, well, maybe we can come back to this. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Benner 16:01
I really don't care one way or the other. So okay. Yeah, I do. But I don't not enough to. Ah, that's interesting. Okay, keep going. I'm

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:10
sorry. I'm gonna I'm gonna hold that hold the hold that thought held that? Yeah. So I think it's important to note, as we are talking about ambivalence, and if you are listening, and you are feeling ambivalent about your management, or you're worried about your child's, I think we really want to acknowledge this is part of a process and someone's relationship with diabetes with themselves, to acknowledge it without judgment to acknowledge that obviously, if you're acting ambivalently, towards your management for your lifetime, there will be you know, complications, consequences, but if it in a season, temporarily, I don't even want to give a time frame to that. But whatever it is to say, Okay, this is happening. And this is part of the process. And now we know, and then identifying that you're ambivalent is part of that process. And then working through and we'll we'll share some some tools and how to work through the ambivalence, but to not judge it and criticize it, but to say, Okay, I'm here, just like we just did with the, the tooth tray, okay. You're acknowledging it? Oh, I'm

Scott Benner 17:13
fully aware. And I'm, I'm happy to acknowledge it. I just, I have no answer for it whatsoever, you're gonna help me find an answer. Is that what you're saying? Well,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:21
but we'll see. Well, hopefully, all right,

Scott Benner 17:23
well, let me sit back and I'm sitting back. I feel like I'm on your sofa. Now. You're gonna you're gonna help me get through this. All right. So, okay, do you want to like talk about it in, in like, more specific terms like Pre-Bolus Singh as an example, do you want to stick to like that idea as you go through this? Or do you don't think it's necessary?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:43
Yeah, we can do that. But yes. So sorry, were you gonna say something or you're really sitting back?

Scott Benner 17:49
Okay, literally sitting back, I'm letting you do this. I want to say, Okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 17:53
Okay. So if we're thinking about Pre-Bolus thing, and you're ambivalent, or even just doing the very basics of, of management of actually bolusing. or injecting when you're eating something, or correcting after hours of high or ignoring it. So if you're feeling ambivalent or your your child is in Veblen, in that stage, I think it's really important to also consider what else is going on in your life, maybe you already have some pre existing generalized anxiety, maybe there's also depression, maybe there's unresolved grief towards the diabetes, right? Maybe you're, you're so angry, and sad and disappointed and scared that it feels easier to ignore it. But I think deep down as we were talking about, even if you're refusing to believe you have diabetes, or and saying I don't really care, it's not going to complications aren't going to happen to me. I really do believe that deep down, there are some fears or convictions that things you know, it's it's reality. There are complications are reality. And so when you're in that ambivalent stage, like I know, I should inject or correct, but I'm feeling all of these other things. And I'm really scared about what might happen. But I just can't do it. Like that. Right in that moment, and you're might not even be aware of it or your child might not be aware of it or teen, right. Where you're feeling those two things. Okay. So you're ambivalent, you say you don't care, but you know that they're there. And none of that wants to drive and I'm not saying that's the only the only driving force to Pre-Bolus or inject but I'm talking about like these two extreme thoughts or feelings or attitudes. Okay. Other I think it's really important to also consider you might be trying really hard to get your diabetes supplies or get good insurance for your, for the supplies. So maybe you have Have I really well, I want to take care of my diabetes. But gosh, it's really hard to get my insulin right now or Gosh, it's really hard to, to get my insurance to cover my CGM or my, my pump. And all of and then the other, I think the other really important factor to consider. You might say, Gosh, I really I know I should take care of it. But I feel so alone in this. So these are all these kind of conflicting, simultaneous, but contradictory feelings like I know I should, but this is really hard, or I feel so alone. You might feel totally out of control in your life, not only with diabetes, but all other areas. These are all factors that could play into which mate might look like on the outside to people as denial, refusal, just resisting resistant to treatment, is

Scott Benner 20:48
that the what is the ambivalence doing to me? That makes that turns into inaction.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:55
So what is ambivalence doing so you then? And that's getting that? Yep, yeah.

Scott Benner 21:02
Or is that a thing you're gonna get to? Should

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:03
I ask that again? Is that again, that's good.

Scott Benner 21:05
I mean, the idea here is, is that I have I have contradictory thoughts, right? I know, I should do this thing, but I'm not going to do it. But I really can't tell you why I'm not going to do it. But I didn't I don't do anything. Like I just sit there, right. And it's not even that I don't let it go. I hear people all the time, say, Oh, I'm a bit what do people have to say I'm a bad diabetic, I don't do this. I don't do that. Like, bah, bah, bah, like, do something or just commit to being bad at it just be like, hey, you know what, on the show, and like, just but no, we always sit in that space going, I know what I should be doing. I do want to do it. But there's never a more, there's never a like, I'll do it after I clean my room. I'll do it after I get a new job. It's just we just don't do anything. It's the inaction that it feels like it's the it feels like it's the the disease of of ambivalence to me. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. So.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 22:01
So we kind of understand what ambivalence is we understand what it looks like. And oftentimes, people describe it as their if they feel under constant pressure. And so you might present in all different ways, sad, irritable, kind of neutral, like, whatever, it's fine, you're exhausted. But until you might have these internal pressures of like, oh, my gosh, I know, I need to do this. And then you might also experience the external pressures. But what, what we kind of the the crux of it is, what is preventing you from making change? And that's where we look at okay, is do you have? Are you stuck in the mixed feelings about the change for various reasons, including confidence? Do you have confidence in your ability to make the change? And is that what does that look like? Does that mean that you have the support system? Does it mean you know how to do it? Like, maybe it's like, I know, I should do X, Y, or Z with my diabetes, but I really don't know how. And this was, I was told by this by my doctor, but now it's not working. And that's something that you always talk about is like, is it?

Scott Benner 23:16
Yeah, so I'll just sit here and wait till the answer comes, and then I'll do it. But then the answer never comes. Because you're not out there consciously looking for the answer. You just think I don't have the confidence, which means tools or know how, yes to do something. I'll wait until that comes to me. But it doesn't some people go look for it. But they're not it but then the ambivalence isn't holding them back. Then they have those people don't have the confidence and say, Okay, I'm gonna go find the confidence somewhere. When it gets you, you really do just sit there. You sit there, like in the middle of the desert, waiting for someone to bring you a glass of water, really like you're like, oh, it's all either die here, or someone will come along and help me, but I'm not going to get up and keep walking. That's interesting. Yes. Okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 24:05
Yes. So then the confidence piece, it's then we ask, okay, if your confidence is is low in yourself, to either find or learn the ability to change, then I would encourage you to look at okay, are you stuck because of depression? Are you stuck because of the unresolved grief? Are you stuck because of fear and anxiety around? What if you make a mistake? What is your self talk like? What is your sense of security and belief in yourself? The basic is Do you have confidence in yourself? Or do you doubt your ability to change and that and then that goes back to the education tools? reaching out for help but

Scott Benner 24:49
is it definitely one of those things? Is it not possible I'm just lazy, or there is a psychological function that's holding me in that spot right? In

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:00
this enigma diabetes example, I would say yes, okay, yes. Because every human I think, for the most part wants to be to live and interact in life. Yeah.

Scott Benner 25:11
Okay.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:12
Yes.

Scott Benner 25:13
Is there a clinical explanation for I just don't care, but I'm not depressed. I'm not this. I'm not I'm not. I'm none of those things you just listed. I just am not going to do this. But there's not there's a reason why you're having that reaction.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:26
I would argue that, because if you're saying you just don't care, and you know, you've been educated about, okay, you need to take insulin, or else X, Y, or Z is going to happen, then I would argue, yes, there's some there's something underlying there that needs to be addressed. Processed. Okay. Yes.

Scott Benner 25:47
I mean, I believe that too, by the way, like, yeah, just I mean, with looking at other people in my life, myself, and other times that I've seen somebody say, I just don't care. As they're saying it, you go, Oh, you totally care. And this is why you care. And you're saying, I don't care. I see. You see it all the time. I don't care what people think about me. Ever see, people say that, like I say what I want, I don't care what people think about me? Yes, you do. Stop it. Like Like, right? Like, of course you care what people think of you. And if you don't care what they think of you specifically, you still care about who you are. So like, don't act like you don't care, you care. You just can't you're not willing to stop doing the thing you're doing. Because that's Oh, because that thing is somehow masking something else for you. Right? Like if I take it out of diabetes for a second when somebody acts all like bombastic maybe I'm gonna sit back up when somebody acts all bombastic, maybe, and I don't care what people think of me, you're protecting something, you're putting a shield up about something. Right? So if I don't want to Pre-Bolus It's because I don't feel like I have the mental space. I don't feel like I have the knowledge, the energy, I don't want to screw it up. I don't want to take responsibility for this. Because if this goes wrong, it's my fault. And if I just sit here and act like diabetes is just happening to me, and there's nothing I can do about it, then if I get sicker, or if something happens to me, I don't have to shoulder the blame for this. You think that might be it? That

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:24
can be definitely I wouldn't say that's always the case. Right? That path, but that makes certainly, yes. Okay.

Scott Benner 27:31
For whatever your thing is, when you're listening, because you certainly grew up one way or another and have a thing to whoever's listening, right? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:37
absolutely. And, and so I think if it's, the ambivalence is high, you're stuck in between these, these mixed feelings about the change, your confidence is low. And you kind of doubt your ability to implement the change. The other two factors that we would look at, to understand why why are you having challenges making changes is the desire if your desire is low, and you're uncertain about whether you even want to make the change, right like that, you have to have that desire to make the change. So there's, yeah, go ahead.

Scott Benner 28:16
I was just thinking about how often I hear people say, my a one C, seven and a half, it's good. And they'll say, I know it can be lower, but I'm okay with it like this. I always think that's strange. But maybe this makes it feel less strange to me. I always think it's strange. Because if your heart was supposed to beat a certain amount of times per minute, but it be I don't know, it'd be 10 fewer times are 10 more times, I'm okay with it. I don't know what that means. That might be why you hear so many people try to get the answer to what's the real benefit of anyone seeing the success? Because if there's no benefit for it, then I don't have to, oh, then I don't have to worry about the fact that I'm not working towards it. If sevens fine, and six is no different than seven. That's why they're always asking for studies show me a study that says that six is better than seven. And my answer is always look, I don't know, if you don't have diabetes, you're able to season the high fours. So like, I mean, that's more more sounds like more sugar in your blood. That all sounds less advantageous to me. But they want to be told it's okay. And if it's not okay, then I'll work towards it. So that's the desire part. Like I almost feel like the ADA is in charge of the desire. Does that make sense?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:29
Well, yes. And I also want to just put the caveat out, though, that if you're in the sevens, and I know you're not

Scott Benner 29:36
putting this out there, but no, I'm not denigrating a seven it's Yeah. Well, for

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:40
people who are like newly diagnosed at whatever stage, I just want to give a shout out. You're doing a great job. Yeah. No, 100 But I hear I hear like your question, right.

Scott Benner 29:50
Yeah. My question is, like, I'm not saying but he's doing a bad job, but they're doing a seven and a half. I'm talking about a person that has diabetes forever. could do a six if they wanted to, and they're like Yeah, I mean, because I've talked to those people, like, I'm good where I'm at. I'm like, okay, but you mean, you know, you could Pre-Bolus or, you know, stay on top of your basil a little bit or something like that. And duel. Another point last, and they're like, Yeah, I don't want to put the effort into it. I don't know, it's, it's odd to me. But I understand that a lot of people feel that way. And I wouldn't come down on it for it. It just strikes me as strange when it happens. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:26
and if they're, if they're healthy and doing fine, probably have all the like, you know, no complications, all those things. But then maybe if there are these other factors that you could ask, if they wanted to change, then what? What's the is it important to them as the last piece? Yeah,

Scott Benner 30:40
it feels to me like saying I only smoked two cigarettes a day. That's what it feels like to me. Like, I'm like, Yeah, I only smoked two a day, that's not gonna give me lung cancer, probably, like, so I'll be alright. And if I die in my mid 70s, that's where I was supposed to die anyway, so it's good. And if I said, Hey, don't don't smoke the two cigarettes live to your ad. They go up there. And I'm like, okay, like, I don't I don't disagree, if help with how people feel ever. It's just that to me, is the conversation that's not happening and happening at the same time. But I'm trying to figure out like, is my desire low or high? Is that personality driven? Is it a thought someone put into your head one day? Is it just how you're wired? Do you know what I mean? Like I don't like because the desire is lower and stable, is better? I don't know what more desire you need than that. Unless you don't? I don't know unless you don't prioritize it. I don't want to say care, but don't prioritize it over other things. Is it just bandwidth? Maybe

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 31:47
I was Yeah, I was trying to think of an example of you know, you have a desire to have stable and low blood sugars, as as I do, but are in as I'm thinking of any client or human with type one, they also have maybe desires to do well at their job, or be solid parents, or interact with the community or serve in this way. And so perhaps the desire is to do the best you can and if that's and maybe yet maybe it's I think, like, is it a bandwidth question? Like the desires do the best you can and it's, you're having stable enough blood sugar's and your agency is in the range of ADA. And you're also excelling and all these other things. Maybe that's enough. That's part of it. Yeah.

Scott Benner 32:41
I mean, I desire to have a six pack, but not enough to do a setup. So like, right, like, is that kind of the same thing? Really? Right. Like, I know, that would be better for me. I know, I would like that more. I know, it'd be healthier. But I don't have the time to do something like that, or the desire. It's interesting. It just doesn't mean enough to me, for whatever reason, or use, is there a way to make me exercise more? Like to change my desire?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 33:13
Well through I mean, yes, I want I want to get to me, you know, working, practicing the motivational interviewing, which is a tactic that therapists can use to help a client understand what you're looking for is their change, talk, what was interrupting or preventing change. And so we can do that in a minute. I just wanted to emphasize like, the fourth thing to think about is the importance of the change, okay, is is the importance if the importance is low, and the benefits of change, and the disadvantages of the current situation are unclear. Right? So you have this. I know there are these benefits if I change if I make these changes, but currently, the disadvantages of my current situation like there's not real clarity in those two things. So why would that be important to you to make a change?

Scott Benner 34:07
So this is real world, what happens when women with type one, for example, decide they want to have a baby? And then suddenly, the importance ramps up and so now they can keep the right one seeing the fives. Yes, yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:22
I am a testimony to that for sure. Okay. hercus, like, yeah,

Scott Benner 34:27
I was writing I was writing to seven Well, I thought I was gonna have a kid. And so but yeah, so that's see I'm trying to I mean, I know you know this but I'm trying to piece together the conversations I've had into this conversation like because I think there's a lot of value in remembering what all these people have said on the podcast over and over again. It's not my I want to be clear to people. This isn't me just like reaching out like s and being like, oh, maybe it means this. Like I mean, I've heard a lot of people say these things. So the importance and then For men, a lot of times you see that it's after the baby comes. And they have that. They have that feeling of like, it's my job to make sure we all stay alive. I can't do that if I'm not alive. And that happens outside of diabetes, right? You see a lot of people like kick recreational drugs or drinking or like, childish, like endeavors in general. I sold my motorcycle because I have a kid now like that kind of stuff. Oh, too. This is all the same thing. Just we have we see it more because diabetes presents us with these problems more frequently than other people.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 35:33
Yes, yeah, you're forced to be making these decisions right all the time.

Scott Benner 35:39
So these are just human problems. These are things that happen to everybody all day long. This could be cleaning up your dishes, this could be doing your job Pre-Bolus thing taking care of yourself, making sure you're not going to get hurt. Like all it's all just the same thing. We're just Oh, that's a really interesting. Okay, I'm sorry. Let's move on.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 36:01
Yes, no, it's good. Yeah. So how so we kind of understand, we're just kind of talking about what is ambivalence look like? Why does it happen? Why sometimes does it happen? And what now? What can we do about it? And so how does one become motivated to make change? And that is certainly just like, ambivalence is a process. Becoming motivated is a process. And as I mentioned, and I'm sure some of you have heard about motivational interviewing, which is a an orientation that therapists can use in therapy. And one of the tools that is really commonly used are called Scaling questions. And most, you might think of scaling as like, when you go to the doctor, what's your pain level, you know, zero to 10. Sometimes therapists might ask, like, what's your anxiety level, or level of depression? Mi uses it in a really interesting way to pull out the change talk. And so I thought, if we wanted to do you could make up an example, you could use one thing you've already mentioned, or make up something random, about something that you have felt ambivalent about, that you're wanting to change, but you've been feeling ambivalent about. Okay.

Scott Benner 37:13
Well, I think I would, I guess, endeavor to like, actually help myself with this. Let's go with exercise. Like, movement. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:26
movement, okay.

Scott Benner 37:26
I'll go with that. Okay,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:28
exercise slash movement. Okay, I'll just say instead of saying slash, you want me to use movement or exercise? Yeah,

Scott Benner 37:34
same movement, movement. Okay. It makes me so a giggle because I think.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 37:42
Okay, so how important is movement for you, on a scale of zero to 10, with zero being not important at all, and 10 being the most important, important,

Scott Benner 37:56
I'm gonna be a walking, contradiction. It's already in this, I could tell this already. I think it's a 10. I think it's incredibly important. Because I'm 52. And I have not been an incredibly like athletic person throughout my adult life. And I'd like to be able to keep moving through my older years, I'm watching a neighbor right now in his mid to late 60s already cutting back on his retirement plans, because he can't move as well as he should. So I think it's the most important, I think it's a 10.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:27
Okay, so that So my next question would be and you already kind of answered it is, why are you a 10 and not a lower number, like a five, but you already just kind of answered

Scott Benner 38:37
those questions, I think I'm going to be 65 and not be able to get up and then I'm going to spend the rest of my life pissed at myself for wasting, because I'm a person who works very hard with the idea that there's a payoff at the end. And after I raise these kids, and help all you people with your diabetes, and pay my bills, and all that other stuff, I'd like a little bit of time before I kick. And if I can't move around during that time, I am going to be mad at myself. That's why

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:07
Okay, okay, so kind of fear of yet not being able to live fully. Once you're able to you're once you're kind of transitioning to like kind of retirement season, and being able to live actively, and also kind of fear of you don't want to be mad at yourself.

Scott Benner 39:22
Theoretically. I don't want to miss out on the things that I've worked towards. But consciously right now, I don't want to sit there and be disappointed in myself.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 39:34
Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So if you are the point of the exercise, if you had given me a lower number, I would then ask you like, what might bump that number up? Okay, but you're you're already at 10. Like we you would this is really, really important to you,

Scott Benner 39:52
but I couldn't I couldn't think through that. If I gave you a five but then gave you those answers. And you said well, your numbers should probably be higher. But I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:01
wouldn't say that that's not MI, I would say. So the difference is, if you gave me a five, and then I would say, Well, why isn't it a lower number? And then you gave me all those reasons. Because you don't want to, you know, be mad at yourself. You want to be active, participate in life, right? And then I would ask you, well, what would bump that number up a couple of notches?

Scott Benner 40:21
It would be if somebody came in and educated me about why it was important. I think, yeah, I would need more education about you'd have to educate me about why I would need to care more about it. And then if, as if, that if, if a doctor or even an older person could say to me, Oh, I wish I would have done this too. Because, you know, anyway, and I have that example already with my neighbor. So, okay, okay. I understand. It's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 40:46
good. Okay. So what and what were, the key is, you know, I'm looking for, you're arguing with yourself in a positive way. Like, if I were if you gave me a five and I said, Well, why isn't the number higher? You're arguing against the change, right? But when I'm, you gave me a number, and I asked, why isn't it lower? You're arguing for the change. And so it's so important to hear yourself. And for me, then to reflect back? The change that you why it's important for you.

Scott Benner 41:17
I find it frustrating, though, just so you know, but keep Uh, huh. Got that? Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:21
Okay. Okay, so now, the next then the next kind of question scaling question would be, how confident are you in your ability to make this change on a scale of zero to 10? With zero being not confident at all? And 10? Being the most confident? Of so how confident are you in the ability to make this change? Number five, your five? Yeah. Okay. Why are you a five and not a lower number?

Scott Benner 41:47
Not a lower number? Because I know I could do this. Not a higher number? Because I want

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:54
to I don't want to hear that. Anyone here? Well, you're not a high number. You know? So you're, you're five and not a lower number? Because you know, you could do it. There's some competence in there. And but what might help you bump up a couple of points to give you more confidence.

Scott Benner 42:17
Let's abstract though my answer was going to be had I done something like this in the past to draw from but I've not done anything like this in the past. I've I've been stuck in this space for 30 years on this topic. So I would feel more confident if I had something to draw from I guess I'd have to for confidence, look towards other people my age who have gone from not exercising to exercising, I'd have to find motivation externally, I

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:46
would think that would help me to find other people who are like minded. Find the external motivation. Somebody

Scott Benner 42:55
who reminded me of me that was doing it would help me. That makes sense. I don't know why. Honestly, I don't think I want to dig into why but yeah,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 43:05
yeah. A little bit. And this is this is just pretend. Okay. Dr. Phil therapy. Yeah. Okay, so we'll, that's what I think we'll Yeah, we'll pause there. So those are like, these are the two bigs scaling tools that Mia is using, and really what motivational interviewing, when, what we're kind of look what I would be looking for, as your pretend therapist is, that's, that's really fascinating. It's important to you. It's a 10. And the confidence was the five. So then we would look at, we'd go through a series of questions and rapport building and trust, and then going back and then make making plans around like, Okay, how could we implement building your confidence, right, because I imagine your desire is probably pretty high. I

Scott Benner 43:59
can tell you what I did, I brought dumbbells into my office. So when I in between doing stuff, I, I do work with dumbbells thinking that if I could see some change in my upper body, that I would, that that would motivate me to do it the rest of the way. And it seemed doable for me, and it fit into my lifestyle. So that's what I ended up doing. And as you can see, I'm jacked now.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:29
Okay, that's, that's great.

Scott Benner 44:30
Yeah, it did work, by the way, because I brought in dumbbells that were too heavy, not by much, and they're not too heavy now. And so I do have that confidence that I could do it more. So what's holding me back is the idea that I don't know if I will. And I don't know how to like, again, that's you're not my therapist, but that's that's my spot right there.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 44:53
So I would take I would take that one to your therapist, because then if we kind of came off this topic then I would look at, you know, to find motivation, if it's the confidence is low. And if we're going back to the diabetes management piece, you know, then there's obviously so many tools out there like this podcast, support systems. I feel like oftentimes, when you're lacking that motivation to make change, and you identified kind of the barriers, when you're feeling isolated, it's really easy to stay there. Yeah. And so what does it look like for you to reach out to and I think it's interesting that you made that point, if you saw somebody, sorry, I know, I'm going back to your example. But if you saw someone like you doing that, I think it's really significant when people in the diabetes community find somebody not only just living with type one or a caregiver, but very similar in age and stage. Like when I when I meet with somebody who has been living with type one for 30 plus years, I feel really connected with them. I feel connected with someone living with type one, but we've lived a different life with it. And just like for you, if you're a caregiver to someone who's been living with it for 1820 years, is different than the the newly diagnosed caregiver.

Scott Benner 46:09
I see that too. I watch people connect with certain people. And they don't even seem to know why they've made the connection that they have. But some things click for them. And sometimes it doesn't. Also. Yeah, I mean, I think that's also why you hear me talk about things in the podcast about diabetes like that, like, I don't think a seven and a half a one sees a bad a one C. But I want you to believe that a five is doable, right? Like I think aspirational is a really big part of this, like a huge part of it, actually. But I can see you make good points about where things get in the way even like, Why did I start with my arms and not my legs because my knees hurt. And I was worried that I the last time I tried to do something with my legs, I got hurt. And I think that probably stopped me from trying it again. So I went to a different part where I was like, Oh, this won't hurt as bad. Or I won't maybe I'm not running the same risk. But relating that back to diabetes. I tried to Pre-Bolus but I got low, you know what I mean? And then it happened a couple of times, and I'm like, I'm not gonna do that anymore. That's sort of I think the, the apples to apples comparison there. Yeah, it's really interesting.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:17
And in the importance piece, you know, when you when we, when you're asking yourself, I know I coulda shoulda woulda do all these things. But it's, it doesn't feel important to me now. It is so hard as we know what type when because or diabetes in general, we don't see the consequences immediately. And we see the mean, you see the lows, but the when you ask yourself, you know, the immediate situation that you're experiencing, if it's not uncomfortable, and you know that, like the disadvantages, the benefits of changed are not outweighing the disadvantages of the current situation. Right. So you don't want to wait till you have complications in the future tip start making those changes. But it is hard when you're in you're in that ambivalent stage to say, Well, I'm doing okay, I have all my Yeah, I know my functionality.

Scott Benner 48:10
So if I don't have the confidence, the desire is tied to the importance to some degree, then I don't move my a one C and tell him to get pregnant. But if for another person, you don't want them to get to complications, because now we can't go backwards anymore. Very likely to now you'll know the importance and you'll probably have the desire. But you might not even put it into effect because you'll think about what's the difference. I'm here now. Although I've talked to plenty of people who have reversed a number of their complications by bringing their blood sugar's back again. So you should definitely feel motivated for that. Oh, yeah. And hope and hopeful. I see the thought line, basically, you have to manufacture the desire and or the importance before it comes in a tangible form that you can't get away from? Is it fake it till you make it?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:06
Sometimes, you know, I was even just listening to something earlier about, you know, the imposter syndrome. And I don't know if that fully applies here. But it just popped into my mind around like, are you particularly newly diagnosed families where you have, you're feeling like, oh my gosh, what, what are we doing? When are we bolusing? How much all of that trying to figure out these or hates you or kind of actively in that sort of, quote, imposter syndrome. And having that perseverance, the motivation, the drive, the resilience to keep going is is exhausting and challenging. And

Scott Benner 49:46
because you have to manage EDF to manufacture that, like, Let's go I've got this feeling when you don't really have it, you don't feel like you've got it, or you need to believe like I tell people all the time because you're asking the questions indicates to me that it's going to work out for you. And so you seem interested in healthier, I think if you continue to be interested and continue to look for answers, that one day you'll wake up and diabetes won't be easy, but it'll be you'll be better at it. And that'll make it feel easier. And then you can progress in that direction. I say that to them, because I genuinely believe it. And I think it's the only thing tangible you can say to somebody when you really don't have anything tangible to say to them. You know what I mean? Like, because at the moment, you don't know how to Bolus and you don't have an experience of of time. And so you have no way to believe that even know what you're doing. You have to believe in something. So you have to have somebody who says, Hey, listen, I've been down here before, and I know the way out. There really is it right. So you know that story? guy walks by friends at a hole. Ever heard that one? Yeah. He says help me. He says to the priest helped me the priest says a prayer, you know, and other people come down and he sees his friend, his friend jumps down the hole with him. He goes, What are you doing my we're both stuck down here. And he goes, Yeah, but I've been down here before. And I know the way out. That's what you need, you need somebody to like to be like, I usually describe it as I'm on a path. I'm on the same path. As those of you who are listening, I'm just ahead of you. And I know where all the potholes are. So I turn around, I shine a light on them. So you can make it up to where I'm at. That's how it feels to me.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:21
So that's good. I've never heard you say it like that. Oh, it's good.

Scott Benner 51:25
I say a lot of Erica, it's hard to keep track of all of it.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:32
And I think most importantly, as I know, I always talk about to it's like in that particularly the initial stage or the 20 year stage or, you know, whatever you find yourself ambivalent, or overwhelmed you to, you know, offer that self compassion. And that it's okay to be to be ambivalent or to be stuck. And to be vulnerable in that space to is, I know, it can be hard. And speaking that out to people and not feeling alone in it. Because they know there are a lot of people out there in this stage. Yeah, but it's beginning, middle, or, you know, living with it for 50 years, to not feel ashamed in that space, to be vulnerable and offer compassion to each other and to yourself is really important part of that process.

Scott Benner 52:21
Isn't it interesting that some people get thrown into this problem, this diabetes thing, and they have all the concerns and problems that we've outlined here today. And somebody else who seemingly is the same kind of person gets thrown into it. And they just, they don't run into any of these problems. They just, they don't get stuck there. They don't become ambivalent, they're not unsure. They don't need to find desire or importance. And it's so easy to look at those two different people and make a judgement. That one's not trying. And that one is, but I genuinely don't believe that's true. I really think it's a lot about like your past experiences, all of them as an amalgam really. And that's it. Like I think you react to things based on the experiences you've had in the past. And some people turtle up and some people run forward. And then there's all kinds of, you know, in between those two ideas. I don't think that a person who's excelling, can take credit any more than a person who's faltering can take blame, if that makes sense. I think it's just the luck of the draw. Sometimes, you know, who you are and how you grew up, and the people who impacted you growing up the experiences that you couldn't have avoided that shape you one way or the other. It's very, very random. And anyway, I don't I don't like it when people take credit for their success. Because I think you're lucky to be in the position you're in, you know, to collect that success sometimes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 53:57
Yes. Anyway,

Scott Benner 53:58
not that everybody can't get there. But some people have more speed bumps along the way than others.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:03
Yes, yeah. History, and access and all of those things. And, and I love that you just ended on and there's hope there's hope for or change, or otherwise, we wouldn't be here. There

Scott Benner 54:15
absolutely is there's always hope. I mean, you just have to find, you just have to find the right outside influences to elevate. It's not the maybe Elevate is the right word to bring you up to the place where you are the people who are succeeding are like, what did they know or feel? Or how do they respond? Like, how can I do those things to, you know, give me the outcomes that they have? That's kind of what how I think about it. I mean, I mean, I grew up really broke, I'm not broke anymore. And I didn't grow up with a lot of like, understanding around me, I have that now. You know, I grew up with people who would have just hit me. If like, I couldn't do one of these things. Then if I would have reacted, they would have thought like hitting me worked. And if I didn't react then they would go like he he doesn't care that that would have been that simple, right? I don't live around that anymore. So I've elevated a lot of my life. I think a lot of people could really. I wish everybody luck. It ain't easy, but don't give up. Yeah. So, Erica, thank

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 55:18
you so much. You're welcome. Thank you.

Scott Benner 55:26
A huge thanks to Dexcom for being longtime sponsors of the Juicebox Podcast. dexcom.com/juice box head over there now, get started today. Jalen is an incredible example of what so many experienced living with diabetes, you show up for yourself and others every day, never letting diabetes define you. And that is what the Medtronic champion community is all about. Each of us is strong, and together, we're even stronger. To hear more stories from the Medtronic champion community or to share your own story visit Medtronic diabetes.com/juicebox And look out online for the hashtag Medtronic champion. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoy my full conversation with Jalen coming up in just a moment. I want to take another moment to thank touched by type one for being such a terrific and longtime sponsor of the Juicebox Podcast. I will of course be speaking again this year at their live event in Orlando, Florida. I hope to see you there. The event is absolutely free for you to attend. Touched by type one.org. Go to the Programs tab and find out more. I'll see you there. If you or a loved one was just diagnosed with type one diabetes, and you're looking for some fresh perspective. The bold beginning series from the Juicebox Podcast is a terrific place to start. That series is with myself and Jenny Smith. Jenny is a CDC es a registered dietitian and a type one for over 35 years. And in the bowl beginning series Jenny and I are going to answer the questions that most people have after a type one diabetes diagnosis. The series begins at episode 698. In your podcast player where you can go to juicebox podcast.com and click on bold beginnings in the menu. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. Thanks for hanging out until the end. Now you're going to hear my entire conversation with Jalen don't forget Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box or the hashtag Medtronic champion on your favorite social media platform. My

Speaker 1 57:51
name is Jalen Mayfield. I am 29 years old. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where I am originally from Waynesboro, Mississippi. So I've kind of traveled all over. I've just landed here in the Midwest and haven't left since

Scott Benner 58:06
ice. How old were you when you were diagnosed with type one diabetes?

Speaker 1 58:09
I was 14 years old when I was diagnosed with type one diabetes

Scott Benner 58:13
15 years ago. Wow. Yes. Okay. 14 years old. What are you like? Do you remember what grade you were in?

Speaker 1 58:18
I actually do because we we have like an eighth grade promotion. So I had just had a great promotion. So I was going straight into high school. So it was a summer, heading into high school

Scott Benner 58:27
was that particularly difficult going into high school with this new thing? I

Speaker 1 58:31
was unimaginable. You know, I missed my entire summer. So I went, I was going to a brand new school with, you know, our community, we brought three different schools together. So I was around a bunch of new people that I had not been going to school with. So it was hard trying to balance that while also explaining to people what type one diabetes was,

Scott Benner 58:51
did you even know? Or were you just learning at the same time?

Speaker 1 58:55
I honestly was learning at the same time, my hometown did not have an endocrinologist. So I was traveling almost over an hour to the nearest you know, pediatrician, like endocrinologist for children. So you know, I outside of that I didn't have any type of support in my hometown.

Scott Benner 59:12
Was there any expectation of diabetes that somebody else in your family have type one? No,

Speaker 1 59:17
I was the first one to have type one of my family. And do you have children now?

Scott Benner 59:21
I do not know. Do you think you will one day,

Speaker 1 59:23
still thinking about it? But right now, I've just been traveling books at all my career myself.

Scott Benner 59:29
So what do you do? What's your career? Yeah,

Speaker 1 59:31
so I am a marketing leasing specialist for a student housing company. So we oversee about 90 properties throughout the US so I've been working for them for about

Scott Benner 59:40
eight years now. And you get to travel a lot in that job.

Speaker 1 59:43
Yes, I experienced a lot of travel it's fun but also difficult especially with all your your type one diabetes supplies, and all your electronics so it's a bit of a hassle sometimes.

Scott Benner 59:53
What do you find that you absolutely need with you while you're traveling? diabetes wise,

Speaker 1 59:58
I have learned My biggest thing I need is some type of glucose. I have experienced lows, whether that's on a flight traveling, walking through the airport. And I used to always experience just being nervous to ask for some type of snack or anything. So I just felt, I felt like I needed to always have something on me. And that has made it might travel a lot easier.

Scott Benner 1:00:20
So growing up in the small town, what was your initial challenge during diagnosis? And what other challenges did you find along the way?

Speaker 1 1:00:30
Yeah, I think the initial one, I felt isolated, I had no one to talk to that it was experiencing what I was going through, you know, they were people would say, Oh, I know, this is like hard for you. But I was like, you really don't like I, I just felt lonely. I didn't know. You know, people were watching everything I did. He was like, You can't eat this, you can't eat that. I felt like all of my childhood had been, you know, I don't even remember what it was like, for life before diabetes at this point, because I felt like that's the only thing I could focus on was trying to do a life with type one diabetes,

Scott Benner 1:01:04
when you found yourself misunderstood? Did you try to explain to people or did you find it easier just to stay private?

Speaker 1 1:01:12
I honestly I just held back I didn't really like talking about it. It was just, it felt like it was just an repeating record where I was saying things and people weren't understanding it. And I also was still in the process of learning it. So I just, you know, kept it to myself didn't really talk about it was I absolutely had to,

Scott Benner 1:01:29
did you eventually find people in real life that you could confide in.

Speaker 1 1:01:33
I think I never really got the experience until after getting to college. And then once I graduated college, and moving to an even bigger town, that's where I finally found those people where I was like, Okay, there's a lot of other people that have type one diabetes. And you know, there's a community out there, which I had never experienced before, is college

Scott Benner 1:01:55
where you met somebody with diabetes for the first time, or just where you met more people with different ways of thinking. So

Speaker 1 1:02:01
I met my first person with diabetes, actually, my freshman year of high school, there was only one other person. And he had had it since he was a kid like young once this was like, maybe born, or like, right after that timeframe. So that was the only other person I knew until I got to college. And I started meeting other people, I was a member of the band, and I was an RA. So I was like, Okay, there's, you know, there's a small handful of people also at my university. But then, once I moved to, I moved to St. Louis. And a lot of my friends I met were like med students, and they were young professionals. And that's where I started really getting involved with one of my really close friends to this day. He was also type one diabetic. And I was like, that's who introduced me to all these different types of communities and technologies, and which is really what helped jumpstart my learning more in depth with type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:02:52
Do you think I mean, there was that one person in high school, but you were young? Do you really think you were ready to build a relationship and around diabetes? Or did you even know the reason why that would be important at the time?

Speaker 1 1:03:03
I didn't, uh, you know, I honestly didn't think about it, I just was i Oh, there's another person in my class that's kind of going through the same thing as I am. But they've also had it a lot longer than I have. So they kind of got it down. They don't really talk about it. And I was like, Well, I don't really have much to, like, connect with him. So sorry, connect with him. Oh, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:03:23
no. So now once your world expands as far as different people, different backgrounds, different places in college, you see the need to connect in real life, but there's still only a few people, but there's still value in that. Right? Correct. What do you think that value was at the time?

Speaker 1 1:03:39
I think it was just what making me feel like I was just a normal person. I just wanted that. And I just, I needed to know that. Like, you know, there was other people out there with type one diabetes experiencing the same type of, you know, thoughts that I

Scott Benner 1:03:54
was habit. When were you first introduced to the Medtronic champions community? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:03:59
So about two years ago, I was, you know, becoming more I was looking around, and I noticed it upon the Medtronic community. And I was like, this is something I really, really, I kind of need, you know, I said I, all throughout these years, I was, you know, afraid to show my pump. You couldn't, I would wear long sleeves, like, didn't want people to see my CGM because I didn't want people to ask me questions. And you know, I just felt so uncomfortable. And then I noticed seeing these people really, in the Medtronic community just they embraced it, you could see and they weren't afraid to show it. And that was something I was really looking forward to.

Scott Benner 1:04:34
How is it knowing that your diabetes technology is such an important part of your health and your care, and having to hide it? What did it feel like to have to hide that diabetes technology and how did it feel to be able to kind of let it go,

Speaker 1 1:04:47
I will refuse to go anywhere. I like to I would run to the bathroom. I just didn't want to do it in public because I felt like people were watching me and that was just one of the hardest things I was trying to overcome. You know, I was fresh out of college, going into young professional world. So you know, going out on work events and things like that I just, I just didn't think I just didn't think to have it out because I was so afraid. But then, once I did start, you know, embracing it and showing it, that's when the curiosity came. And it was actually genuine questions and people wanting to know more about the equipment that I'm on, and how does this work? And what does this mean? And things like that, which made it kind of inspired me? Because I was like, Okay, people actually do want to understand what I'm experiencing with type one diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:05:32
What did you experience when, when the internet came into play? And now suddenly as easy as a hashtag? And you can meet all these other people who are living with diabetes as well? Can you tell me how that is? Either different or valuable? I guess, compared to meeting a few people in real life?

Speaker 1 1:05:49
Absolutely. I think if you look back from when I was first diagnosed to now, you, I would have never thought of like, you know, searching anything for someone with, you know, type one diabetes. And now it's like, it's all I see, you know, you can easily search Medtronic champions, and you see people that pop up, and you're like, wow, look at all this content. And I think that's something that, that kind of just motivates me, and which is how I've kind of came out of my shell and started embracing more and posting more on my social media with about, you know, how I'm there with type one diabetes. And I think that's something that I hope can inspire everyone else. What

Scott Benner 1:06:24
was it like having more personal intimate relationships in college with type one?

Speaker 1 1:06:28
I think it was kind of hard to explain, you know, just, for example, like, no one really knows, it understands, like what alo is. And I think that was a very hard thing for me to explain, like I, you know, it can happen in any moment. And I'm sweating. I'm just really like, not all there. And I'm trying to explain, like, Hey, this is what's going on, I need your help. And I think that was something that was hard for me to, you know, I did talk to people about it. So when this happened, they were like, oh, you know, what's going on with your mate? I'm actually a type one diabetic. This is what's going on? I need your help. What about?

Scott Benner 1:07:06
Once you've had an experience like that in front of someone? Was it always bonding? Or did it ever have people kind of step back and be maybe more leery of your relationship?

Speaker 1 1:07:18
After I would tell someone I had type one diabetes after some type of Evander ad, and they were academ more upset with me that I didn't tell them up front. Because they were like, you know, I care about you, as a person I would have loved to knowing this about you. It's not anything you should have to hide from me. And that was a lot of the realization that I was going through with a lot of people. Okay,

Scott Benner 1:07:37
let me ask you this. So now we talked about what it was like to be low, and to have that more kind of emergent situation. But what about when your blood sugar has been high or stubborn? And you're not thinking correctly, but it's not as obvious maybe to you or to them? Yeah.

Speaker 1 1:07:51
So I also I go through my same experiences when I have high blood sugars, you know, I can tell like, from my co workers, for example, I didn't really talk to you know, when I go out backtrack, when I visit multiple sites for work, I usually don't announce it. And so sometimes, I'm working throughout the day, I might have smacked forgot to take some insulin, and my blood sugar is running high, and I'm a little bit more irritable, I'm all over the place. And I'm Mike, let me stop. Hey, guys, I need to like take some insulin, and I'm sorry, I'm not I didn't tell you guys. I'm a diabetic. So you may be wondering why I'm kind of just a little bit snippy, you know, so I like to make sure I do that now going forward, because that's something I noticed. And it was kind of hindering me with my career because I was, you know, getting irritable, because I'm working nonstop. And I'm forgetting to take a step back and focus on my diabetes, right?

Scott Benner 1:08:42
Hey, with the advent of new technologies, like Medtronic, CGM, and other diabetes technology, can you tell me how that's improved your life and those interactions with people?

Speaker 1 1:08:52
Yeah, I can. I feel confident knowing that it's working in the background, as someone and I've always at least said it, I have been someone that's really bad with counting my carbs. So sometimes I kind of undershoot it because I'm scared. But it allows me to just know that, hey, it's gonna it's got my back if I forget something, and I think that allows me to have a quick, have a quick lunch. And then I'm able to get back into the work day because it's such a fast paced industry that I work in. So sometimes it is easy to forget. And so I love that I have that system that's keeping track of everything for me.

Scott Benner 1:09:26
Let me ask you one last question. When you have interactions online with other people who have type one diabetes, what social media do you find the most valuable for you personally? Like what platforms do you see the most people and have the most good interactions on?

Speaker 1 1:09:42
Yeah, I've honestly I've had tremendous interactions on Instagram. That's where I've kind of seen a lot of other diabetics reach out to me and ask me questions or comment and be like, Hey, you're experiencing this too, but I've recently also been seeing tic TOCs and you know, finding on that side of it I didn't, you know, see the videos in different videos. And I'm like, I would love to do stuff like that, but I just never had the courage. So I'm seeing people make like just the fun engagement videos now, which I love, you know, really bringing that awareness to diabetes.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
Isn't it interesting? Maybe you don't know this, but there's some sort of an age cut off somewhere where there is an entire world of people with type one diabetes existing on Facebook, that don't go into Tik Tok or Instagram and vice versa. Yeah. And I do think it's pretty broken down by, you know, when that platform was most popular for those people by age, but your younger people, I'm acting like, I'm 100 years old, but younger people seem to enjoy video more.

Speaker 1 1:10:38
Yes, I think it's just because it's something you see. And so he's like, and I think that one thing, and obviously, it's a big stereotype of our diabetes is you don't like you have diabetes. And that's something I always face. And so when I see other people that are just, you know, normal, everyday people, and I'm like, they have type one diabetes, just like me, they're literally living their life having fun. That's just something you want to see it because you don't get to see people living their everyday lives with diabetes. I think that's something I've really enjoyed.

Scott Benner 1:11:08
What are your health goals? When you go to the endocrinologist, and you make a plan for the next few months? What are you hoping to achieve? And where do you struggle? And where do you see your successes, I'll

Speaker 1 1:11:19
be honest, I was not someone who was, you know, involved with my diabetes, I wasn't really focused on my health. And that was something that, you know, you go into an endocrinologist and you get these results back. And it's not what you want to hear. It gets, it makes you nervous, it makes you scared. And so I have personally for myself, you know, I was like, This is my chance, this is my chance to change. I know, there's people that are living just like me, everyday lives, and they can keep their agencies and their blood sugar's under control. How can I do this? So I go in with it, you know, I would like to see it down a certain number of points each time I would love for my doctor to be like, Hey, I see you're entering your carbs, I see your, you know, you're not having lows. You're not running high, too often. That's my goal. And I've been seeing that. And that's what motivates me, every time I go to the endocrinologist where I don't dread going. It's like a an exciting visit for me. So you'd like

Scott Benner 1:12:07
to set a goal for yourself. And then for someone to acknowledge it to give you kind of that energy to keep going for the next goal. Yeah, I

Speaker 1 1:12:15
feel as a type one diabetic for me, and it's just so hard to balance. It's a hard, hard journey. And so I want someone when I go in, I want to be able to know like, Hey, I see what you're doing. Let's work together to do this. Let's you don't want to be put down like you know, you're doing horrible you're doing it's just, it's not going to motivate you because it's you're you're already fighting a tough battle. So just having that motivation and acknowledging the good and also how we can improve. That's what really has been the game changer for me in the past two years.

Scott Benner 1:12:51
Jalen, I appreciate you spending this time with me. This was terrific. Thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:55
Absolutely. Thank you.

Scott Benner 1:12:57
If you enjoy Jalen story, check out Medtronic diabetes.com/juice box. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com