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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1137 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Natalie is 50 years old she's using the Omni pod five, but she was originally diagnosed as a type two in 2012. After having gestational diabetes, she just got her type one diagnosis three years ago. Today Natalie and I are gonna talk a lot about Omni pod five and how it's helped her. She has hypothyroidism she says just a little bit, and Natalie is actually a returning guest. She was originally in an episode called cattle drive, which aired on September 14 2022. It's episode 754. Nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire order at cozy earth.com. All you have to do is use the offer code juice box at checkout. That's juice box at checkout to save 40% at cosy earth.com. When you place your first order for ag one with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year's supply of vitamin D. Drink ag one.com/juice box. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by the continuous glucose monitor that my daughter wears the Dexcom G seven Dex comm.com/juice box Get started today using this link. And you'll not only be doing something great for yourself, you'll be supporting the Juicebox Podcast.

Natalie 1:51
Hi, I'm Natalie, and I've been using the Omnipod. Five for about a year now.

Scott Benner 1:56
Natalie, how old are you?

Natalie 1:58
I am 50 years old soon to be 51.

Scott Benner 2:02
That's the M means I'm really 51? Basically, no,

Natalie 2:07
well, almost I mean, it's this month my birthday. So I might as well say that I'm 51. And my husband likes to remind me that I'm an entire four months older than he is. So there's that. Well,

Scott Benner 2:17
happy birthday. It's very nice. How old were you when you're diagnosed? Well,

Natalie 2:21
it's kind of tricky. I had gestational when I was pregnant, which was now 20. Some years ago, I was diagnosed as a type two, back in 2012 or so. And then recently, they don't know if I'm type one or what they call a typical diabetes. Somebody that's type one without antibodies. And that came to light a couple of years ago, so I don't know. 15 years, something like that.

Scott Benner 2:51
So you've been treating yourself as a type one for about 15 years? No,

Natalie 2:55
I've been treating myself as a type one for only about three years.

Scott Benner 2:59
Okay. 15 years total three years as a type one. Got it? Yeah. All right. I'm going to ask you a question here that maybe I'll just edit out, depending on how you answer it. Are we telling people you've been on the podcast before? No. Okay, well, if you don't want to, we'll just chop this part out. And I'll keep going. Well, we can tell them I'm fine with that. Okay. All right. So your episode was what seven? My

Natalie 3:23
episode was the cattle drive episode. And you'll have to forgive me, I don't remember what number it was. And in that episode, I was still pretty early in my journey to try to figure out what type of diabetes I have. And I talked a little bit about the study I was in to try to help figure that out, which ultimately, after a boatload of tests and a day spent in a clinical trial wing of a hospital. They still don't know exactly what I am. My my pancreas acts like it's a type one. But I don't show insulin resistance or some of the other typical hallmarks of type two. Right?

Scott Benner 3:58
I have a question. And if you have an answer for it, I'm interested. Is there any, like you've heard your episode? So why did I call it what I called it?

Natalie 4:09
Um, that's a good question. We talked a little bit about how with type two diabetes, it's a lot of driving people to an end. And sometimes there are outliers along the way that doctors don't know really what to do with

Scott Benner 4:26
and I called your episode cattle drive. Okay. I wasn't sure. Like, if you were gonna say, I work on a steer farm, or if it's gonna be something.

Natalie 4:34
You've been watching a lot of Yellowstone at that time, Scott, it's um, I think cattle drive was pretty high up there in your mental.

Scott Benner 4:43
You're probably onto something right there. Yeah. Okay. So, so you're back on the show more specifically to talk about being on Omnipod five. So,

Natalie 4:51
a while back, you had asked for people especially like different people across the whole spectrum of folks that might be using the Omnipod to speak to their experience. I'm pretty sure I was my endos first patient on the Omnipod. Five. And so I've been having a decent amount of success with it and just wanted to try to add my perspective. So

Scott Benner 5:13
a tiny bit of context. And so for three years as a type one, how were you managing prior to Omnipod? Five,

Natalie 5:20
I was managing with injections for about six months to a year once I finally relented and agreed to go on what I call mealtime insulin or full time and insulin. I've been using a long acting for a little while prior to that, so about six months with injections, but I knew once I started injections that I wanted to go to a pump as soon as possible. So I started the dash fairly quickly after starting insulin. And then I was on that for about a year before I could get my hands on Omnipod five, oh, I've had it for about a year now a little over.

Scott Benner 5:53
Alright, great. So let's talk about when you transition from MDI, to dash originally, that's probably like a weird time because you're just starting to use insulin more like, traditionally, I guess, how long did it take you to find a rhythm pumping with Dash,

Natalie 6:10
I'd have been pretty quick. But I also have to give you credit for that, because I found the podcast about a month or so before I actually started my Omni pod. I think that just starting to listen to the podcasts and some of the concepts about insulin and how it how it works. And hey, it's okay for me to want to take charge of my own health with it and not necessarily rely on the endo to tell me every little thing I need to do that made a huge difference in in my mindset, which I think then affected the way that it worked for me. So I went into insulin at about a nine a one C. Once I started insulin, I was down in the sevens. But after I started the dash and started listening to your podcast, I was down in the low sixes. And I haven't been above six in about 18 months. Good for

Scott Benner 7:03
you. Congratulations. That's wonderful. Yeah, no, of course. Okay, so what made you go from dash to Omnipod five, honestly,

Natalie 7:11
I wanted an algorithm. The idea I was doing a lot of interventions with the dash all the time, all day long, I had my nighttime Basal fairly well tweaked down, but I was still waking up in the middle of the night, multiple times a week, sometimes multiple times a day to either correct a hi or fix Hello. And during the day, I was doing a lot of extended basals a lot of temp basals just to try to keep my my numbers in the tight range that I was liking to keep them in. And so the idea that I could go to an algorithm that would kind of take a little bit of that burden off of me was definitely appealing. I didn't really consider tube pumps very well. And probably just because being diagnosed as an adult, it's hard enough to conceptualize having a another device stuck to you. And especially at that time, I don't know that I'd be that worried about it now. But the idea of having tubing connected when I'm a klutz I run into things all the time, I can just imagine the number of times I'd pull the tubing out or the dogs would grab it or whatever. I really looked at the Omnipod five and I thought about looping but I haven't been brave enough to to go down that road yet.

Scott Benner 8:25
The Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast and it features a lightning fast 30 minute warmup time, that's right from the time you put on the Dexcom g7 Till the time you're getting readings, 30 minutes, that's pretty great. It also has a 12 hour grace period, so you can swap your sensor when it's convenient for you. All that on top of it being small, accurate, incredibly wearable and light. These things in my opinion, make the Dexcom g7. a no brainer. The Dexcom g7 comes with way more than just this. Up to 10. People can follow you, you can use it with type one, type two, or gestational diabetes, it's covered by all sorts of insurances. And this might be the best part, it might be the best part alerts and alarms that are customizable, so that you can be alerted at the levels that makes sense to you. dexcom.com/juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com to Dexcom. And all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the production of the podcast and helping to keep it free and plentiful. So you are having success without an algorithm but it's causing you to be involved more than you want to be involved. Yeah,

Natalie 9:42
I constantly had the controller in my hand. I did a lot of numbers watching too, right? Because with what you can only set your alarms so many times, right. You can't set a Hey, pay attention here alarm versus a hey, the world is ending alarm. And so you know I I do a lot of watching to try to keep it from getting to the point where the alarms would go off. It was a lot mentally, and that definitely is one of the biggest things. That's benefited me going to the five I sleep at night now, regularly. Yeah, I still have a nights where something didn't go quite as planned.

Scott Benner 10:19
But if you're making, like, if you're bumping and nudging, basically, before the algorithm is that mostly with, like corrections with food, like, where we use your intervention needed? Both,

Natalie 10:32
um, it would be like, Okay, I've been a little more active than I expected. And so I'm drifting lower than I want. And maybe I'm getting ready to get in the car, and I don't want to have to deal with it, dropping the low 70s. So I would if I was watching my numbers, and maybe I was a slow drift. And maybe I was getting ready to get in the car and drive. And I didn't want to have to worry about what would happen if I dropped below 70. While I was trying to drive, a lot of that kind of thing. Honestly, I think it was a lot more using temp basals up to catch a rise, and then maybe not cutting it off quickly enough. And then I would drift low later and have to correct it. You

Scott Benner 11:13
had a Basal rate set up that worked ish, but maybe wasn't strong enough. And so then you would come by push back on it cause a low later eat food drift up like were you kind of caught in that loop a little bit?

Natalie 11:27
A little bit. Yeah. And I think I was also using a higher Basal to offset meals without realizing that that's what I was doing. Because now that I've been on the five, my Basal rate is

Scott Benner 11:38
a lot lower is a lot lower. So then my question is, how did that work? When you started on the pod five, like where you're setting so messed up? Because you were intervening that it didn't allow the algorithm to work? Well, when started? Or how did the transition go into the algorithm? It actually

Natalie 11:53
went pretty smooth, because I had listened to all the things I could listen to your podcasts about. The five came out after I started, but I tried to do as much research as I could. And I knew that it was starting with a 5050 assumption. Yeah. And so I did a lot of research into gluco to see. Okay, what am I what kind of insulin Am I really using at this stage? How much insulin Am I using here? What's my usual Bolus to Basal ratio. And I calculated up my total daily and created a program for my basil, that was pretty close to what my dash would use, but it was more in line with what half of my total daily would be. And then once I got on the five, if I started drifting up, I would go ahead and correct pretty quickly. And that I think, helped the algorithm learn how much total insulin I was truly using a day rather than just what I told it I was using.

Scott Benner 12:55
Okay. So, you know, it's funny, Arden used AMI pod fire for a while, those episodes came out before she started. And I thought the same thing. Like I was like, Oh, I wish I would have made these episodes before she started trying to use this. Because there's so much information in them that leads to a good transition. But okay, so now you're using it. And it's good, like so I just want to say for people like contextually, you kind of said like the 5050 assumption, when you're setting up Omni pod hives, specifically, they want the algorithm to have some autonomy, I guess like like, you know, like, and they wanted to have like the autonomy is the wrong word. Like they wanted to have the flexibility to make decisions. If you were in a situation where let's say your basil should have been a unit an hour. But you were for some reason how to add half a unit an hour, but we're constantly making adjustments and adding insulin somewhere else. And then you go back and tell the algorithm my basil definitely point five an hour, well, then it's going to be way off of what you need. And so the assumption is that a lot of people probably just don't really know why their settings work, but that their total daily insulin is probably pretty accurate. So start with total daily insulin, give half of it to the to the basil give half of it to the Bolus during the setup process. And that gives the algorithm a chance at making good decisions. So it's so based on total daily insulin, really, those episodes are terrific. I should put the names of them in here somewhere. Maybe I'll put them at the end. Yeah, you know, so for when people are starting, it really does help. I also found a lot of people who did the same thing started before they had the information and went back and reset the algorithm and started over again. I got a lot of luck out of it that way the second time because the settings are really the whole thing. I've

Natalie 14:42
recently received a new controller from them because of the whole situation and I haven't set it up yet because I'm a chicken. But I think I mean knowing now what I know that I didn't know then I expect it to go pretty smooth. It's just been a little hack. Jake and I haven't done it yet. Yeah.

Scott Benner 15:01
Okay. All right. So I want to know about actual day to day use of it. I want to know how you handle meals, how you handle high blood sugars, like the whole thing. So can you tell me, like maybe take me through a day you get up in the morning is your blood sugar where you expected to be when you wake up, for example,

Natalie 15:20
I would say probably 75% of the time, my blood sugar is in a range that I'm comfortable with which I try to keep my numbers between 70 and 150. I don't freak out, usually it is 65. But if it gets much lower than that, especially if it's a trend down, I'll I'll take care of it. I do intermittent fasting. And so I usually don't eat breakfast, and I rely on my basil to hold me steady throughout the morning. And it does a really good job. I'm usually around 100 to 110. The exception is sometimes i I seem to have a fairly strong Dawn phenomenon. And I think lately, the algorithms been struggling a little bit to manage that the way I would like. So I might be waking up at like 130 instead of 100. So I've just been correcting in the morning to try to address that. And it usually drifts back down then about where I want it. But I will find that regardless of then the activity that I do in the morning, which might be going into the office, it might be chasing dogs, it might be what you know, going for a walk whatever, it does a pretty good job of keeping me pretty steady between 90 and 110. Good. That's

Scott Benner 16:37
amazing. What about overnight, like so is it? Like you go to bed at a stability and it stays there? Do you like what's your, what do you see when you look back over the next? It

Natalie 16:49
probably doesn't drift more than 10 or 15 points during the night. Unless I've done something crazy, like have pizza late at night before we go to bed or some sort of food that's going to have a really long impact, like sushi or something like that. It seems that sometimes the algorithm doesn't handle the rises for that as aggressively as I would like. But it still handles it. It's just I don't like looking at a number above you know, 150. And so yeah, I a little impatient to get it to come back down.

Scott Benner 17:25
So do you do intervene when you see that? Yes, usually.

Natalie 17:29
But what I have learned is that for me, I will tell the pod that, hey, I want a correction. And I'll use the CGM button to see what it's recommending I have. I've learned not to override that and give myself more, even though my head will tell me. Oh, no, you need way more than that. Because what I found is that that those will be the times that I end up going low later. And the one thing for me, I don't know if this is true for everybody else. But for me, I found that my loads are much less frequent. But sometimes it seemed like they take a lot more carbs to bring back up than what they did before when

Scott Benner 18:08
they do happen. Yeah, not necessarily when you overcorrect though,

Natalie 18:13
correct. If I don't overcorrect, then I don't end up having that low later.

Scott Benner 18:20
But if a low comes without correction, they're harder to bring back up.

Natalie 18:24
Correct?

Scott Benner 18:26
Is there any correlation between that way you've eaten before do you think

Natalie 18:29
could be, could be, it could also be that perhaps I was a little more aggressive with my meal rise then then what I had or maybe I overestimated my carbs. And so then later, if I dropped low then instead of needing one glucose tabs, clot, one glucose tab, maybe I need three.

Scott Benner 18:50
Okay, nothing. That's still not crazy. Like, no, no, of course,

Natalie 18:55
no, I'm not eating the kitchen. I'm not going nuts with juice boxes. Usually 15 grams will more than take care of it.

Scott Benner 19:06
Okay, I gotcha. What What's your eating style, like?

Natalie 19:10
I try to stick to a diet heavy in fruits and vegetables, lean protein. But I like carbs. And I firmly believe that. If you're out, celebrating with family for something that you should feel free to have a bite of a celebratory food if that's what you want to have. That being said, I find myself choosing lower carb options A lot of times just simply because I don't feel like fighting with blood sugars later. I know how to dose for just about everything, but sometimes I know that it's going to be a lot of work. And sometimes I just don't feel like putting in that work. The food itself isn't worth it. I often have a big salad for lunch with probably chickpeas for protein for dinner. err, I do a lot of, you know, some sort of protein and then a veggie and aside, I do have kids that are still at home, I do have a full time job. So some days are crazy. And if we all end up having to eat out, I want to be able to eat out without worrying myself sick about what my choices are. Okay.

Scott Benner 20:20
Yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense to me. So what do you think your total carbs a day are?

Natalie 20:24
It's usually under 150. Usually somewhere between 101 25. Some days might be more than that. Some days are less than that. But, but

Scott Benner 20:35
that's not a low carb lifestyle. It's just it sounds like a me honestly, just sounds like you're making very targeted choices about your food.

Natalie 20:43
Yeah, I tried to avoid processed carbs, you know, the white bread and the flowers and stuff like that. But like, if my stomach's upset rice is my comfort foods. So that was one of the things that I forced myself to learn to dose for. Because if I don't feel good, I want to have something like that. And it's easier for my tummy to digest. And so it works for me.

Scott Benner 21:11
Nice. That's excellent. I'm just trying to figure out like, where the lows come from when you have them. Do you think their activity?

Natalie 21:17
Yeah, sometimes, I think what I've noticed is that sometimes my sensitivity seems like it changes and so things that I would do, and dose accordingly and not have any trouble with maybe another day, I do the exact same thing the exact same way. But my result is a little different. And I know that it's probably due to different time of day or changing sensitivity or something like that,

Scott Benner 21:42
or hormones still an issue for you. Yes.

Natalie 21:45
So that could be part of it, too.

Scott Benner 21:48
Mostly I had foot or excuse me, I'm looking at one thing and saying another literally sorry, Natalie, I had a I had a foot surgery recently. I need to put my foot up. So hold on a second. Oh, go right ahead. I'm gonna make some noise. Just now happen on two episodes. I am all full of myself. Like it'll happen. I'll be fine. And then like, about a half an hour into it. I'm like, I gotta get my foot up.

Natalie 22:13
Yeah, it starts to throb or really hurt.

Scott Benner 22:15
What happened was what, what had happened was they told me the doctor, he's like, I'm just gonna make like this, like pinhole incision, I was like, okay, then he gets in there and decides, he's got to cut it open. Oh, and, you know, for the first number of days, like, I don't really know what that meant, because it's all covered. And you're like, Don't uncover it. Like, I like how they say, don't take this dress. For two weeks, don't take the dressing. I'm like, This dress is gonna last 48 hours, and I'm gonna have to cover it back up myself. So when I finally opened it up the incisions like four inches long. I was like, Oh, my goodness, like, oh, that's where all the pains coming from, like, really hurts. But I kept thinking like, it's whatever he had done inside of the foot, right. But that's not where the discomfort is coming from. It's the healing from the, like Frankenstein incision you put on my foot. So this the take your bone chip out? Well, it turned out to be more than that. So yeah, like so they the guy tells me, you know, gives me my inspection. I guess they call that an appointment. And he, he's like, Oh, that's gonna be a bone spur and arthritis, we'll clean out the arthritis. I'll take off the bone spur. I'm like, great. And then later, he's like, yeah, it was cartilage. It was torn, where we wasn't that much arthritis. And I'm like, Okay. He's like, I didn't take off the growth with the growth. Like, he called it a bone spur before, which made me feel old. Then he called it a growth and I was like, geez, we just stick with the same words, please. And, and he's like, yeah, it's gonna, he's like, I had to do microfracture surgery on your towel. And I'm like, What do you see, I made a bunch of little holes in the bone to try to get cartilage to regrow. And I go, Wait a minute, like, cartilage can regrow. And he goes, Well, no. And I'm like, Well, what? Then? He goes, it's more like fibrous cartilage. And I'm like, right? He goes, so it's not really cartilage, but like, hopefully, it'll support the toe. And any kind of like, whines up and I'm like, hopefully. Yeah. And I was like, I'm like, What, are you not telling me? Yes, I Well, you know, this is still a problem. And a couple of months, we might have to talk about fusing the bone in your toe. And I was like, No, I don't want to do that. I don't think that's a good idea. That was like, no, please. So now I find myself like hoping that fiber is Cartlidge grows in my toe. Anyway, that's where I'm at. But I got my foot up. So now I'm okay. Now I'm in a incredibly awkward position with a microphone on my face. But at least my foots not throbbing. Okay, so. So, I mean, what you hear people most say about algorithms in general, you've already said which is, man, it gives you your sleep back like that. It really is something. So can you talk about that for a little bit like what the impact that's been on your life of just sleeping through the night? To

Natalie 25:07
be honest, I think sleep and the lack of sleep is something that you don't notice how much it's affecting you until you actually sleep at night. I know when I worked night shift, and I had broken sleep all the time. I felt like garbage all the time. And I didn't realize until after I started sleeping at night that oh my gosh, this is what sleep slumps feels like this is what it feels like to wake up refreshed. And I kind of feel that way with the with the Omnipod five two is that I didn't realize how much I was getting up in the middle of the night on a regular basis until I wasn't anymore. And it just for me it it affects every part of me, I'm not so impatient, I'm in a better mood, I'm able to get more done in the mornings. Just because I've actually slept during the night instead of being woken up every, you know, two to four hours.

Scott Benner 26:04
It's such a slow drain on you when it happens. The diminishment happens so slowly, that once you're there, you don't know you're there. And definitely Yeah, and it's it really does suck like because you are having a significantly less desirable life honestly, and interactions with people. And it's, you know, just really, it screws you up. Now, like you said, you get it back, like oh my god, I remember feeling like this. I didn't know I didn't feel like this anymore. You know? Yeah, no, it's amazing. How often you said once in a while at night, but how often do you think you have to wake up

Natalie 26:41
and give yourself something? Probably less than once every two weeks?

Scott Benner 26:45
I was gonna say like, twice a month, maybe yeah, maybe once a month, maybe once

Natalie 26:49
or twice a month, depending on what's going on. And like I said, if if it's been a really active day, or if I've had a lot of activity during the day and didn't really realize it then sometimes that night, because again, I'm a little more sensitive than than what I planned, I might drift a little low. But I go back in the morning and I look at my, my numbers, and you'll see where the where it was taking insulin away from me during the night. So that I didn't get too low.

Scott Benner 27:19
Yeah, isn't that fascinating? When you look to see, like, wow, if this thing wasn't working, and didn't take my basil away for an hour here in an hour there, I would have had an hour whatever, like what's your Basal rate? Right

Natalie 27:34
now it's about a between a half unit an hour and about point eight minutes an hour, the idea

Scott Benner 27:41
that like to like one to two extra units would have been in you through basil. And then you definitely would have had a low and you would have been feeding that insulin, those two units of insulin, you wouldn't have known why. But the algorithm is just like no, no, just take it away. And then you don't get that extra. And even when you're drifting low. When you're drifting low, and the algorithm has been trying to stop you unless you've made some horrible mistake in the past. Even the low is not as like frightening because it happens slower. It's not falling. It's really it's, it's just change, I would

Natalie 28:15
definitely agree with that. There's very few times where I see an straight arrow down, or double arrows are even more rare. And it so usually catches the drift. And then I just need a little bit to bump it back up. It's in those cases where I've usually me screwing something up where I've been too aggressive or Bolus and then forgot to eat or you know, something like that that. Do you

Scott Benner 28:44
have a couple of questions around food? Do you have to Pre-Bolus still?

Natalie 28:47
I do? Well, half two is. The other day I didn't I was eating McDonald's and I didn't Pre-Bolus that. And I don't think I ended up going over 150. So Wow, that's great. There was that. But generally I find that a 15 minute Pre-Bolus to 30 minute, which is actually shorter than what I used to do MDI, really, it that seems to work pretty well with MDI. I saw that it would usually have to be 30 minutes

Scott Benner 29:15
to Brilli Well, you were also under you were under Basal too, right. Yeah. So you know, that makes sense as well, because now that that Bolus has to go in and has to overwhelm a lot just to get you moving. And then you've got us. Yeah, then you have to start falling so that when the food goes in, you don't see a crazy spike in the other direction. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I try. I tried so many different ways to explain that a podcast over the years. But the best way I think I found is just imagine if your Basal should be a unit an hour, and instead it's point eight, like in that seems like well, it's not that big of a difference, but over 24 hours, it's point to an hour you're deficient. Right. So point 2.2 point 2.2 All this hadn't four hours have gone by, and four or five hours have gone by you're down a unit. So 510 1520, you're almost five units deficient a day of basil. If you're up, if you're a point eight basil when you should be a one. And that's, that's a significant amount, then you come along and have a meal. And you think the meals, only two units or three units, but you're also deficient the Basal all day as well, you started throwing in insulin, it starts making up for the Basal but doesn't impact the food, you spike up and you're like, I don't know what happened. I count the carbs, I did the thing. And it's everything settings, like, like, the algorithms are making it more obvious now two people, but I've been screaming about it forever. Like if your settings are wrong, like just nothing's gonna work, right. And basil has to be right. And people never pay attention to basil. So that's, I think that's the simplicity of why some people have issues. You know, you're right. Yeah,

Natalie 30:52
I was gonna say on that point, I firmly agree with you there. To that point, I will occasionally run in Manual for 24 hours, just so that I can be sure that my Basal settings are still spot on. Because I always worry, you know, what, what, if something were to happen, I need to know how much I really need, you know, that kind of thing. So I'll do that. Occasionally, you

Scott Benner 31:16
will, especially if something's changed, right? Like you come in with a one Basal into the algorithm. And over time, a month, a month go by and your needs changed. Like, let's say you gained weight, or you what if you had hypothyroidism and your medication was off. And you're, you know, you were a little more hypo than you usually are, that can even impact your insulin needs, like little stuff like these, right? So anytime I

Natalie 31:41
explain that, so because I also am a little hypothyroid. So.

Scott Benner 31:46
So I think that what you'll hear most people say is that when their TSH is high, they might end up using more insulin. And so the lower and more normal that you can get your TSH, you might end up using less insulin or, or your sensitivity might be a little better.

Natalie 32:04
Well, that's something I also have to thank you in the podcast for I doubt that I would have been as aggressive with my thyroid. With my Endo, had I not had all of the thyroid episodes to listen to mine was one of those that considered in range. But the symptoms I was having, were definitely not fun stuff to work with. My hair was falling out, my skin was dry, it's cold all the time. So I convinced my Endo, probably about six months ago now, to start me on some medication. And it's helped a lot. My numbers have come down. And I just had my visit yesterday, actually. And we're going to up the dose just a little bit. Because again, my numbers are still in range, but I'm starting to see some of those symptoms come back. And so just try it out.

Scott Benner 32:53
Since you just went yesterday, tell people what was your TSH?

Natalie 32:56
When I started treatment, my TSH was 2.8. Okay. And then after starting the medication, it got down to 1.02, I think. And then it had come back up to 1.8. So 1.8 is still below two, it's still well below four. But when I explained the types of symptoms that I was starting to see, she's like, No, let's try it. Good.

Scott Benner 33:21
That's great. Good for you. Yeah, I mean, you, I can say I should probably just print it on my forehead, but you don't treat the number you treat your symptoms. Yeah, and that's that's how you handle that.

Natalie 33:32
And I was just so glad to find an endo that was willing to work with some of them are very much insistent on the number so

Scott Benner 33:40
Oh, please, there are people walking around right now with three and a half TSH is and there and they have every hypothyroid symptom in the world, the doctors like you're fine. And that's it. It must be something else go for a walk, get some air, like you know, like stupid, and they should just use the medication to bring the number down to where the symptoms disappear. It just it's so simple. Natalie, it's such a struggle being the smart to understand.

Natalie 34:06
Here I am adding to your struggles. Right. Thank you. So

Scott Benner 34:09
there we go. Yes, yeah, it's just making me feel terrible for being so smart. I guess I'm joking, of course, because it's such common sense. And yet you watch people just ignore it constantly. And the idea of it was in range. So freezes some people, like I've had private conversations. I spoke with a woman who's was in the hospital once and I'm like you're describing a high TSH and hypothyroidism. And she's like, Well, the doctor said it's in range. I'm like, but you just listed all your symptoms. They're all hypothyroid symptoms. Like what would it hurt to try the medication and she was resistant? She's like, No, no, it's in range, like in range was like a speed bump for that was like 10 miles high. She couldn't get over. And then finally, you know, it goes six months goes by, and an email comes Oh, I finally did that thing. I feel So much better. I mean, I could

Natalie 35:02
have told you that, not

Scott Benner 35:03
only could I have told you that, I was telling you that, and it just, and you ignored it, it's just and then it'll happen to their kid. And they'll go, and they'll start the whole process over again, instead of just assuming, like what I learned the first time, you know, maybe I should put the practice here, it starts over again, well, they're having symptoms, but their bubble is high. And I'm like, Oh, my God, we're gonna do it again, I'm gonna go, okay. But anyway, I'm gonna do so anyway, with all these variables that are possible, see, if I can find my original thought. Imagine you go on the algorithm, and you're, you're rolling along. But then something's changed, you've gained weight, you've become less active, maybe you had a job where you used to walk a lot, now you don't walk anywhere, that is not a thing you would think about, right. And so if you weren't on an algorithm, and you stopped all the walking, you might start seeing higher blood sugars. And you might start giving yourself more in sample, the algorithm just sees the higher blood sugars and starts to give you more insulin. But to your point, you don't even know that's happening, really. Because you just, you don't even you just you're not going to know, right. And so then if you have to go back to manual for some reason, or, you know, I don't know what happens, your shipment doesn't come or you're suddenly MDI, and you're over here with your one unit of basil, because I know, this was what it was like before, and everything's still working, and you forget to factor in those other variables, then all of a sudden, you're not gonna have enough insulin. And by the way, the other way too, what if you got a more active job, and now the algorithms giving you less insulin, and you flip over to manual, and all of a sudden, you're getting low and you go, I don't understand, like, like, it's, it's that kind of stuff that I liked. What I'm saying is, I like that you go into manual once a while and test your settings, basically. Yeah.

Natalie 36:45
And like, when I was having trouble with the dawn phenomenon, and rising every morning, the first thing I did was, I went manual, so that I could adjust it and see how much I really need to come in to the number that I like, I like to float around at at night, if I can. And so once I did that, then I let the algorithm try, it still wasn't catching it. So I went back and adjusted my insulin seven sensitivity during the early morning hours, so that it would give me more insulin during those early morning hours. And that seemed to really help. And so I might be at the point where I might need to make a little tweak there. If I still continue to see that morning rise that's a little higher than I want, but

Scott Benner 37:31
I love it. Well, you've just said something that made me think of something. And then I looked at myself and thought, I can't believe my foots in front of me while I'm talking. And then I lost my train of thought.

Natalie 37:40
I can't see your foot. Nobody needs to know you're not

Scott Benner 37:43
distracted by but I'm staring at it. It's out in front of me. Oh my god, what were you just saying? Hello, I'll get back to it. Oh, I'll go to my other question till I get back to it. What do you do for fat or protein rises?

Natalie 37:57
I really don't. And I think that's the two factors. Number one, it's probably a factor the algorithm, I think it it catches it. Number two, I don't usually have low carb meals that are high in fat and protein. And I know that sometimes people see the protein rise a lot more if they're lower carb. But if if I've got a rise happening, that's outside of what I would expect, or it seems like it's lasting longer than the food should be sticking around. I'll go ahead and just do a correction then. But typically, I will stick with what the algorithm is recommending. Unless I feel like I know something that the algorithm does it like, Okay, I've been snacking on something and the algorithm doesn't know that. And so I'll do a more aggressive correction.

Scott Benner 38:48
Yeah, okay. Do you ever have like a french fries situation where you have like a burger and fries and you get like that 90 minute later rise.

Natalie 38:57
Um, sometimes what I'll do with those is I will Bolus for the carbs that I'm pretty sure I'm having an O I also usually don't Bolus more than five units at a time. So whatever my carb ratio is, that gets me to five units. If it's going to take me over five minutes, I'll break it up. So I'll do a partial Bolus. And then 30 minutes later, I'll do another Bolus because for me my body tends to reject big Bolus. Excellent. Yeah, it doesn't like big Bolus has no matter where I put the pod. And so I'll just break it up like that. And so if I'm having something like french fries, or something like sushi that I know is going to stick around. I'll set a timer on my phone for either 30 minutes or an hour depending on the kind of food and then I will just do another Bolus of a part like usually like, I don't know 50% or 20% of whatever it was that I ate. So that that controls that later rise that's going to happen. Okay,

Scott Benner 39:55
okay, good. I like that. What do you think you were seeing tunneling you know, It is when I say that. Yeah,

Natalie 40:00
yeah, that's exactly what was happening. It just seemed like there's too much insulin going on that my body could absorb at one time. And so then it would just like sneak up back out the hole and leak around the the edge of the cannula there. Yeah, once I stopped trying to do bigger boluses. And then also I, if, if I put it on my thighs, it seems like the pod gets bumped more there. And so I will usually go ahead and put an over patch that has a strap on it over the pod to keep it from rocking back and forth.

Scott Benner 40:35
Yeah, kind of bringing their cattle out a little bit. I think that's just for do you think it's getting bumped? Do you think it's just from walking?

Natalie 40:42
For me, it's probably a bit of both. I tend to bump into things, my dogs will hit it. I don't seem to gauge the wideness of doors very well. And so I when I first got my Dexcom I was constantly ripping them off on doorframes. You know,

Scott Benner 40:59
I find us talking about this sometimes hold on a second. About I think it's an actual thing. Hold on. Awareness. Yeah. I walk into doorframes homeless people seem to think that's an ADHD thing.

Natalie 41:15
You might not be wrong. My son was recently diagnosed with ADHD. And we've actually had to fight for a long time to get him diagnosed for a variety of reasons. But as I learned more about it and researched more about it, I'm, I'm pretty sure I'm an undiagnosed adult with ADHD. But I've been able to find coping mechanisms to deal with it. I'm, you know, I work in a professional job I get by, I'm getting by,

Scott Benner 41:43
like, I'm 51. But I'm almost finished.

Natalie 41:49
I just I don't know the point of being diagnosed at this point. Right? If I've made it this far, but I'm pretty sure. Yeah,

Scott Benner 41:57
the only other thing, there could be like a visual problem. But I mean, I think it's called vertical. Oh, God, hold on a second. I'll find it. Vertical header theory? Oh, I don't know. I'm just saying that the bumping into a doorframe is actually could be a sign of other things. I also used to be what I called a close Walker. And, and I stopped myself from doing it, which I've said on the podcast before, like, I used to turn corners and like catch the edges of walls and things like that. And then one day, I said to myself, I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to like purposefully not do that. And I stopped doing it. So it's not ADHD, because I was able to like, make yourself stop and make myself stop doing it. Right.

Natalie 42:42
Yeah, I think for me, once I got used to wearing either the Dexcom or the pod, that part of it's gotten a lot better. But I'm still a klutz. I still bump into stuff.

Scott Benner 42:56
That's why I just wanted to bring it up because it comes up. It's like that. That rapid eye movement, Rapid Eye Movement Desensitization like thing that people do with therapists, the amount of times that comes up on the podcast is fascinating. So just yeah, it's just an the bumping into things thing. So I like to like, shut out for a second, just to this, because like, right now someone's like, Oh, God, I probably do have ADHD. And I walk into things all the time. Like, I just I don't know, he didn't use this me to think someone's in their car right now thinking that. That this is where they figured that out at. But anyway, yeah, cuz

Natalie 43:33
you know, it makes so much sense to get so much medical advice from a dude you listen to on a podcast. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:39
Badly. None of this is medical advice. I just want to say that right now. But

Natalie 43:43
yeah, that used to really floored me that I was learning so much from the podcast, but tell

Scott Benner 43:50
me about it. What like when you were first because I it makes sense to me. But tell me about the feeling?

Natalie 43:55
Well, you know, you always hear, you always know not always here. But the whole thing about, you know, you can't trust everything you see on the internet, or you can't trust all that you read on the internet. And oh, you're gonna let Dr. Google diagnose you and this kind of thing. And so then I start listening to a podcast that's put on by a gentleman that doesn't have diabetes, and isn't a doctor. But yet through his life experience and through the things that he's he's learned, the things he's saying makes sense. And then, you know, you brought Jenny on to and she was agreeing with the things you were saying. And it was just such a different way of thinking about things than what had been presented to me through the medical community. Yeah. I like devoured your podcast when I first started listening to it to the point where my kids are teasing me. Mom, are you listening to your doctor podcast again? Yes.

Scott Benner 44:52
Well, I guess he's to say, you know, like when, when one of you says that you like the podcast, you listen to it, I get it. For my wife, or my kids or stuff like that all the time, and I agree, listen, as as crazy as it might sound for me to be saying it, I agree with you, I don't think you should be listening to me either.

Natalie 45:13
Know how we ended up here,

Scott Benner 45:14
it just is, um, you know, when I speak in public, I'll stand up in front of a crowd of people, and sometimes their big crowds, you know, hundreds of people. And I'm like, Look, I'm going to talk about diabetes in a way that's probably going to sound almost foreign to you. And it's going to some of it's going to be shocking. And, you know, if you really, if you already know about it, or you've listened to the podcast, it's not shocking at all. But to hear somebody say, I want you to consider Pre-Bolus In your meals, or don't stare and look at a high blood sugar for three hours, because it's not stalking if you needed. Like those things. When you're told that by doctors, when you hear them somewhere else, you think, oh, that's crazy. Like, I can't do that. And then I mean, I do take your point. Like, it's a It's the strangest thing. It's like you're taking like, it's like somebody's telling you how to change a tire and they've never driven a car. I don't have diabetes, like so I don't really like I don't know what it's like to live with it. I know what it's like to manage it. And I know what it's like to care about somebody who has it. But still, like you said something earlier in the episode that really like struck me. You said, when my stomach's upset, I like to have rice. So rice is something I had to force myself to learn how to Bolus for. And when you said that, that makes me feel like, like, oh my god, there are things people won't put in their mouths, because they're scared of the Bolus. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that's prevalent for people. And that's the thing I don't know firsthand, I know that from listening to you guys and talking to

Natalie 46:50
you know, and sometimes it's because it's not worth it. And sometimes it's because oh my gosh, I would have to have X amount of insulin to to have this food. And that's so much more than what I normally take. And I'm afraid of taking that much. For me it was more, figuring out the strategy of making sure that it doesn't continue to hit me for, you know, four or five hours after I eat it. But I'm, I don't know, I'm pretty flexible in my eating style. I don't think I've weighed a food my entire life, even after having diabetes. Yeah, I definitely estimate carbs a lot more than I scientifically calculate them. I know, I would not have the control that I have. If I hadn't been learning from the podcast and the people on your podcast.

Scott Benner 47:39
That's excellent. I'm very happy to hear that. And it's kind of you to say, so I appreciate it very much.

Natalie 47:46
What I went to the endo yesterday, when you hear it, she said, I mean, I

Scott Benner 47:49
thought we were gonna do a monkey impression. Is that what that was? I was like, I don't have a monkey impression. But okay, yeah, you're really excited. I'm so excited to be here with you.

Natalie 48:00
My, my AMC is 5.4. And that might be the lowest I've ever had. And then she also, after going through all my data and looking at the things and asking me about the lows. She's like, Natalie, I wouldn't change a thing. You're doing great. You look like you're really on top of it. And you know, like, it looks like you know what you're doing? And I wanted to laugh at that part. But

Scott Benner 48:25
I said, Thank you. Why did you want to laugh at that part? Because you never feel like

Natalie 48:29
you really know what you're doing. Right? Right. Especially if, like this week, I went to the state fair, and my Dexcom decided to do take a break. When I got to the state fair. Luckily, I had a meter with me. And so I just had to do finger sticks throughout the day. But Oh, am I going to know what to do in this situation? What about this situation? That kind of thing?

Scott Benner 48:53
You went to the state fair without an extra Dexcom? I did. Yeah. That's because you're an adult art and just went out? Like Brian is ready to you and I were getting on art and left to go out with someone. And I was like, Hey, you're going kind of far from home? Are you taking stuff with you? And she goes, now I checked my pod, it has plenty of insulin. I was like, What about just extra stuff? In case she was now I'm like, okay, by the way, nine times out of 10 It's gonna be fine. And, but but the one time you're at the State Fair, like, I should probably keep one of those sensors with me. Like, you know,

Natalie 49:25
and it's so well, and I thought about going home to get one right. But I was like, you know, it's a two hour warmup anyway. And I'm an hour from home, and I would have to drive back up here to pick up my kid later. So I've got my meter. I've got my strips. We're just gonna go in manual. Pump. Yeah. And then I'll just fingerstick and I ate food that I wanted to eat. I had an era corn and I had I shared some videos with my daughter. Nice and it was a great day,

Scott Benner 50:00
I would have done it. Listen, in that scenario, I would have done exactly the same thing. In my mind. I think like I'm thinking ahead all the time. So to me, I think, Okay, well, the CGM takes a crap at a bad time, I'd swap it now do exactly what you did. But at least two hours from now, I'd be back again. Like, that's how I think about it. Like, then we're back. And but also, you didn't do anything wrong. I'm just saying, if you were if you were a kid, if your kid had diabetes, and you were me, I bet you would have had stuff with you when you went to the fair.

Natalie 50:31
Probably would have had a spare Dexcom. Yeah, yeah. And typically, like if I'm going somewhere around home, I don't carry extra decks comes usually I will carry extra pods, extra insulin and a pen, and usually a meter. But I usually don't necessarily carry extra decks comms. Now, if I'm traveling, or going far away from home, then I packed like, I'm going to be gone for three months, even if it's only a week. Yeah. And there's been times that I've needed the extra supplies. And then there's a lot of times that I bring everything home, but to your point, it's the one time that you don't have it that you really need it that you prepare for. I'll

Scott Benner 51:12
tell you to In fairness, CGM are one of those things like they either go on time, or they were they go, and you can usually see them going. It's not usually a thing that just happens. It's almost like you know what I mean, you get choppy data from it or something like that happens, you start having connection issues or something like that. You can kind of see it coming. Usually,

Natalie 51:33
I should post the picture of when it happened on the website, I think. Okay, so I know that spray sunscreen affects the pods. Does it also affect the Dexcom? Because it was within five minutes of me putting sunscreen on that the Dexcom decided to take a break. The

Scott Benner 51:49
only thing I know about spray sunscreen is that if you get it on an AMI PATA could crack the shell of the Omni pod, right? Yeah, I don't I mean,

Natalie 51:58
I've never heard of anybody having trouble with the Dexcom. But it was just so coincidental that within just a couple of minutes, it decided it was not happy. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 52:07
think that's just Murphy's Law. I think that's really what that is. Because it

Natalie 52:11
normally I last 10 days, usually. And this one was only on day like four.

Scott Benner 52:16
Oh, yeah, something was definitely off. I you know, that's actually difficult for me when people try to talk about Dexcom not lasting for them. It last so consistently for Arden, like I did, it's just like, it's just good luck, you know, but 10 days, and now the g7 has a grace period, she goes into the grace period, no problem. Like it's she's always had really good success with XCOM. So

Natalie 52:40
I'm sure most people loved it. Yeah, it's, it's been so informative. And it's really changed how I manage. And I started using it when they thought I was still a type two. And so that was very helpful. Especially once I started insulin. It's just been great.

Scott Benner 52:57
Cool. So I'm gonna ask you, do you have anything else about Omnipod? Five, you want to say before I ask you my next question. No,

Natalie 53:03
I mean, I think even though it's got a target of 110. I mean, I'm able to as an adult, have a, a one see that's, I think spot on an average of 110 or 106, something like that. And so don't let the target dissuade you from trying it. Yeah. Well, no,

Scott Benner 53:21
it's terrific. It's terrific. And this is this is it like the in my mind like these, this is the year of like algorithms, I can't wait to see what happens to them as we move forward. Like it's very, very exciting. So my last question is before we started talking, wow, that's not fair. Also, it's not accurate. Before we started recording, you were talking about the other episode that you did, and that you wish it would have gone differently. And like all this other stuff, so I wanted to like chat through that with you if you're comfortable chatting about that. Okay, do that. So, go ahead, tell me what you said first.

Natalie 53:56
So I just said that I, I reminded you that I'd been on the show before. And that I really wasn't very happy with my episode, I felt like I didn't sound like myself, that I really wasn't very engaging. And it could have gone a lot better if maybe I'd let you do more of the leading on the episode rather than having like a specific list of things that I really wanted to get across than it. It stemmed from the fact that I was so passionate and still am very passionate about helping all people with diabetes, but especially those that have been misdiagnosed as type two, or maybe they even do have type two and they're getting a lot of, of shame or grief or not support from the medical community that it can get better. And there's there's things that can help.

Scott Benner 54:51
So your goal was to help people so you came on and you had a list with you? Yes, and then I probably drag you around. Not letting you get to your list. Is that fair?

Natalie 55:01
I mean, yes, a little bit, but I think you did. Let me get to the list. But I think that if I had just let the conversation flow flow a little bit more rather than having prepared, not poorly prepared, but you might be surprised at how much I practiced because I really just really wanted it to go really well. In the end, I wasn't super satisfied with how it went just because I didn't feel like very many people would. Wait,

Scott Benner 55:29
wait, wait, how do you practice? How do you practice to be on a podcast? You

Natalie 55:33
practice your your list of topics and like, what questions do you think the host might ask you? And how would you answer that then?

Scott Benner 55:42
Oh, that's nice. Thank you. Well, let me tell you something. Your episode has been up for less than a year. And it has well over 20,000 downloads. Oh, wow. So it's doing good. And yeah, and if you're worried that it's not helping people still, it is downloaded on an average of 30 times a day. Oh, my gosh, that's a long time after it initially. Yeah.

Natalie 56:10
So in the in the Facebook group, I occasionally will see one of the one of your helpers, reference. My episode. Isabel is really great about Isabel and Nico. Both are really great about helping somebody that's, especially if they're type two, or they don't know what they are. Or if they've got something weird like I do, where they don't have antibodies. Yeah, they'll refer them to my episode, which I really appreciate. Because ultimately, if it can lead to more people being in that study that I was in, we might get more answers for folks like me.

Scott Benner 56:42
So you had an expectation of how it was going to sound or how it was going to go or what you were going to say, and then you didn't hear that back? Is that right?

Natalie 56:49
I heard the words, I didn't hear the excitement, or the tone or the flavor. So

Scott Benner 56:56
you have a very specific way of speaking. You know that you speak in a very specific way, like so you're somebody from the Midwest, you're not monotone. But you don't vacillate very high or very low while you're talking. Right? And so you're not, you're not purposely engaging people with the sound of your voice, you're speaking you have a lovely speaking voice, it's fine. You speak a little slowly. And that throws me off a little bit. So because but not me, personally, and not you specifically, when people speak slowly, there's a clock in my head. And I want there to be talking. And I want there to be shifts in conversation. And that's me, like producing the show while I'm making it. So I have to go back and listen to yours to find out if, like you talking more slowly made me be more like made me try to like make up for that. Because that happens. Sometimes

Natalie 58:00
you're probably on to something there because I, I often have to speak in my job. And by nature, I speak very quickly, especially when I'm excited. And so I've had to have years of practice of slowing myself down, especially in situations where I might be nervous, and I was definitely nervous. So I very likely could have been speaking much more slowly.

Scott Benner 58:25
Well, and by the way, if Isabel is suggesting your episode to people, then it's good. Because I don't know that you see, you're saying thank you, but I'm giving you an insight Isabel that other people don't. So like if she didn't like the episode, she wouldn't share it with people. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, you're good. Trust me. I'm always just amused like i. So this is what I told you before we started recording. And this stays completely true. If I let people be involved in the process after they recorded the episode, I don't think any of the episodes we get on the air. Because everybody has either an idea of what they're supposed to sound like or what they were supposed to say or what this was supposed to accomplish, instead of just trusting that I know how to build the podcast, so it helps people and and they all have like the site. A lot of people have an idea of what how it should go. And if I gave them any editing power, then people wouldn't get the shot. Like if I gave you your episode, it wouldn't exist because you'd be like, no, no, it's bad. I didn't do what I meant, or blah, blah, blah. And But meanwhile, it's being given out by group experts in the Facebook group as something to listen to. So who's right? I mean, I'm right to go ahead and say, Man,

Natalie 59:34
you're Isabel's. Right. Let's put it that way. Right.

Scott Benner 59:35
Like, exactly. And so you're you're wrong about it. And so you are the worst judge of an episode about yourself. So here's the question. I usually ask people when they get into your situation. Do you like the podcast? I love the podcast. Does it help you? Absolutely. Then you should trust me that I thought your episode would do the same for other people.

Natalie 59:59
And I will do You bet. Yeah.

Scott Benner 1:00:00
Let's see that long pause you made after I said that. I was thinking about it, you're while you're thinking about it, my brain is yelling, oh my god, Natalie faster. Let's go

Natalie 1:00:12
on with it. You don't think that has anything to do with you'd be an east coast you.

Scott Benner 1:00:16
So I don't know, because I've lived here my whole life, I couldn't judge that. What I can tell you is that from a listening standpoint, I am a fan of audio entertainment. And I know what I don't like. So I don't like pausing. I don't like I don't mind if people think. And every once in a while, like a long pause, I'll cry during some people's pauses, because you can feel the emotion hitting them in the silence. But when people just have a slower way of speaking, I think it's it doesn't engage the listener. And I want people to stay engaged because you said something, 45 minutes into this that was really impactful. But I don't want people to get 10 minutes into it and be like, Oh, she talks slow, and then not make it to the 45. And by the way, people don't have that conscious feeling. Like, oh, she's speaking slowly, I'm not going to listen, it just it hits you wrong. And so you need something to kind of pull you in, I don't know, like a total world and just keep spinning you like so you're you're stuck to the outside wall and can't get away. You're like I have to stay here and ride this ride. And that's that's it. And it also it's it's an unfair thing to expect the people. So making the podcast has taught me to be more patient, because there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not 100% right for me. So, I will tell you, I will never tell you what it is. But there is an episode of the podcast that went up this year. It was the first time it ever happened to me. I put up an episode and I didn't like it. I was like This sucks. And oh, I can't believe I'm doing this. It's so bad. I hated the way the person spoke. I hated that. I hated what they talked about. It just ate it. I hated it. And oh my god, do people like that episode. I was like, son of a bitch. And like I got emails about it like, Oh, I love this episode with this person. I was like that one. Are you kidding me? I was like, oh my god, her voice is so annoying. No, like, but it just turned out what I learned from it is it wasn't for me. It didn't make it not for other people. And I have gotten good enough at this now that I was actually able to moderate the conversation. Even though I wasn't enjoying it, it was still a good conversation for somebody. And that was a big learning moment. For me. Real it really was honestly, like even talking to you today. If you if I would have spoken to you. Two years ago, I would have talked over you a lot. Like because I know what you're going to say in those pauses. And there's a part of me that's like, just say yes, like, let's go. And I've learned to like, like, just wait, I'm getting better. The podcast is making me a better person. Honestly, if I'm being honest. So well,

Natalie 1:03:06
I will say when I first started listening to you, I was like, Well, this guy just shut up and let the guest talk please.

Scott Benner 1:03:12
Now, I know what I know what needs to be said now, like, I don't need them. But even that, like back then I needed the thing to do a thing. Like I don't know if that makes sense or not like I know you think of it as your personal story. But the way I think of it is it's a slice of life a look at something from a certain perspective, and people want to hear it so they can draw from it what they need and move on. Like nobody is. I'm sure there are a couple of episodes like this. But for the most part, people who listen to the show religiously, don't know everything that happened in every episode, but they know what they took from it. And you know what I mean? And so that's the, to me the important part. And I'm like, you know, I've slowed down over the years, right?

Natalie 1:03:57
Yeah, I would say that for sure. Because

Scott Benner 1:04:01
I'm like, I don't know. But also keep in mind, there was like long stretches of time where my iron was really low, and I was still making the podcast. So I don't even take responsibility for any of that. What do you think?

Natalie 1:04:13
It's all done under different circumstances. Yeah, I

Scott Benner 1:04:16
was a completely different person. Listen, I gotta I gotta review the other day where someone just didn't like that. I talked, I spoke to somebody personally about like, their personal life. And the person's like, this is supposed to be about diabetes. I'm like, well, first of all, it's supposed to be about whatever I think it's supposed to be about. That's why it's my podcast. You know, like, so if you want it to be about what you want to be about, go make your own diabetes podcast. Good luck. You know, like, that's fine. That's where the conversation took me. Like, am I always right? I'm not, like, am I always exactly like, do I speak exactly the way I should? I don't, but if I start measuring my words and practicing for the podcast, you guys aren't going to you're going to hate it. It's gonna suck. And that's part of the reason why I don't let people do it who Come on. Because it seems it seems like practice, like, imagine if you would have last time been like, Oh, I remember practicing this part in the mirror, and then you did it again, it would sound, it would sound rehearsed, you know. So anyway, that's one

Natalie 1:05:17
of the things that I love about the podcast is that you've got so many different elements, right, you've got the management episodes, management from all kinds of different perspectives, you've got, the how we eat, you've got the defining diabetes, the bold beginnings, all of that, you've also branched into the type two stuff now to help folks on that part of their journey. But then you also have the personal stories, and I, I love listening to the personal stories. In the beginning, the management side of it is what really brought me in because I needed it. But the personal stories, I think, help on a different level. And they they help you appreciate both where you are, and they give you ideas of where you could go. Yeah, some of them have been really, really inspirational. And you know, we I find myself crying along with them.

Scott Benner 1:06:10
Yeah, trust me, I am. So that's the key to this whole thing, right? Like, you could get on here and read a list and say, Here do these things. You're a one seal by this, but no one's gonna listen to it. They just aren't like, so you have to like I've told people privately, I've probably said it on here, I'm not scared to say it on here. I partly see my job is I'm tricking you into paying attention to something that's boring, so that you can take better care of your health. And I'm doing that by giving you like conversations with people that are like the ones you just described, you know, and, you know, again, there's no shortage of entities, Ada, for example, who has all this information written down. And I defy you to know where it is or what it says. Because just because you make good information available to people, doesn't mean they're going to find it, it doesn't mean that if they find it, they're going to absorb it, it doesn't mean that they're going to take the time to listen to it you still see online? I mean, how often does someone come to me and say, I don't know what to do. And you'll hear me and I'll respond back or I'll you know, the people who helped me in the group will respond back and say, Here, listen to the bold beginning series. I don't have time for that. Can you just tell me what to do? I'm like, why? Like, I know, because that's not a valuable use. I can't tell each person individually what to do. Like, that's why I made this thing. Even if

Natalie 1:07:33
you could tell them what to do. There's a difference between somebody telling you what to do and you working through it on your own. There's part of the learning process in there to Scott that, that people have to take responsibility for their own learning in their own care through it

Scott Benner 1:07:49
only are you trying to name the episode on your own? Are you trying to name the episode Teach a man to fish? Is that what you're trying to do? Because that's, that's what you're saying? And you're 100%? Right? 1,000,000%, right. I can't if I come and do it for you, you won't be able to do it again the next time. Like just listen to the stupid I did it. I gave you all the Listen, you mentioned Isabel earlier, she texted me this morning because she's doing something that's going to put a variable into her life. And she goes, Hey, I'm doing this and this, should I do this? And this like as an example with my insulin? And I answered her back. And she goes, yes, yes, I know that from the podcast, and I would do well. Everything I know is in the podcast. Like, I'm not gonna, I don't have like a magic extra thing. I didn't I didn't say out loud at this point.

Natalie 1:08:32
magic bag of secret. Yeah, no.

Scott Benner 1:08:35
Here's what I don't tell anybody. Right, like so. But that feeling that people are like, just tell it to me. Like I understand it. I genuinely understand it. They're probably overwhelmed and scared and they just want it to be right. But the truth is, you have to live through this. You have to go through it. You have to learn. And the podcasts will make it easier for you. But you still have to I don't want to say do the work, but you have to experience the experiences. You have to react, watch it happen, watch it work or not work, learn from it, do it again. And that's just, it's just that's the truth of all this. Absolutely. There's no shortcut to it. But there is the podcast is the shortcut. But it's still not. It's still not five minutes

Natalie 1:09:22
doesn't prevent you from having to do it yourself. You still have to do it. It's 1,000,000%.

Scott Benner 1:09:26
Right? Like yeah, and I don't know, like, I do my best. Like I do my best to get it to people. I do my best to make it interesting. I avoid like the plague all the people who do who do the rounds, the diabetes rounds. Like you don't I mean, they're saying the same crap over and over again in 16 different places. They've been on every blog, you know, you see them like talking 16 Instagram accounts are all saying the same crap. And you know, they're there. I don't know what they're looking for clicks maybe like I have no idea But the content to me is not. It's not accessible. And I don't usually like talking like that. Like, I'm like saying out of the box and accessible and meet people where they are and like that. Oh, that's

Natalie 1:10:09
all the jargon. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, now see, they're all fallen out of my head. But yeah, sorry. No,

Scott Benner 1:10:18
no, no, please. All that anything you've heard on a meeting at work? I'm not going to say, we're

Natalie 1:10:24
not going to boil the ocean here today. Is that what you're telling me?

Scott Benner 1:10:28
It's a way that people talk to say nothing. Yep. And so there's these I just had someone explain this to me yesterday, he hears this, he's gonna be like, I can't believe my thoughts are on the podcast. But we were we were talking about somebody I do business with. And I said, I don't understand why more companies don't have me speak at events. And by the way, I don't even know if I would say yes, but I don't understand why they would. And he said, well, because everyone sticks with safe and what they know. And so it's this narrowcast information that is neither incredibly helpful, or incredibly, not helpful. It's banal, okay, like, and they will feed you that banal information until the end of time. Companies, Instagram accounts, influencers, are all going to say the same crap. Because it doesn't take any thought. It's not going to offend anybody. It's not really going to help anybody, but it's not going to hurt you either. And then it's just down the middle. It doesn't, you don't have to infer from it. You don't have to learn. You don't have to do anything. You can be a passive passenger on their content Express. And they get clicks. And then they sell those numbers, those clicks for ads. Right? And you might think, Well, yeah, Scott, you're doing the same thing. But I'm not. I consciously decided to say what people need to hear. So that that will help them so that they will share it was someone else, and then that creates the clicks. And then full disclosure, I sell those clicks, for ads,

Natalie 1:12:13
which is what why we continue to keep getting the podcast. That's

Scott Benner 1:12:17
why on a Friday afternoon, at three o'clock, I can sit here chatting with you recording it, and then putting it up for people to hear. Because there's going to be two ads on this episode, those people will pay me money for those ads. And that provides me an income so I can make the episode the podcast, which by the way, is not I don't think like that's surprising to anybody. But the difference is, is that the content is valuable. And, and it's not just valuable, but it's entertaining or engaging. And that's the other thing, because I'm not the only person. Listen, between you and me, Natalie, a couple of people try to rip me off every year. Like there's content out there. That just sounds like they listened to Jenny and I on the on the Pro Tip series. And they repurposed it, but they don't have whatever it is that makes this work. And I don't even know how to quantify that, to be perfectly honest with you. I don't know why it's working. I can't take credit for it. I couldn't probably reproduce it. If you asked me to, like whatever happened here. Like whatever made you say the kind things you said earlier about the podcast. I didn't do them on purpose. I just made the podcast and that was your experience. They're out there. I don't know. Bad voice bad timing. Maybe they're just not likable. Like who knows? I'm not likable to some people are damn sure. You know what I mean. But I also don't like I don't vanilla myself up so that I don't offend anybody. Like I just like, like I said, I got an I got a review the other day and I'm like, That person doesn't like me, but it's not terrible. And I'm like, perfect. I'm right on that line. And that's kind of where I want to be. You know. So anyway, I have a lot of big thoughts about this, that I'm sure are boring to people. But there's a way to get this information to people and to not waste their time. And I mean, honestly, if you don't agree with me, please say but aside to diabetes. This is a good podcast, right? Yeah.

Natalie 1:14:23
I mean, there's definitely episodes that I've listened to just for the pure entertainment value of the episode. I still listen multiple times a week to the podcast because I find that that I enjoy the information and I know that it has helped me so much that I like hearing how it's helped other people as well.

Scott Benner 1:14:46
Do you think I could do it if it wasn't about diabetes? Do you think if I left the niche, like people would listen to me interview people about other stuff. You

Natalie 1:14:53
you have a way of pulling things out of people that's really entertaining. Now, you know So in my case when I first started listening to you, and I would get irritated with you for one reason or another, but I kept listening because the info was good. If it wasn't something that that the info was good, then I don't know that I would have listened to it as long as what I did.

Scott Benner 1:15:15
So I grew on you like a fungus you're saying? Absolutely.

Natalie 1:15:19
Right. Yeah, your mushroom. Oh,

Scott Benner 1:15:21
I love that. I think that's terrific. Like the way content is delivered. Nowadays, right? Like the face the forward face of content. I'm not the mold for that. Like, I didn't say mold like fungus. Although that would have been amazing. If I did. That would have been really Yeah. But I'm not the most like, I'm not young. I'm not pretty. I don't just like say things that are, you know, it just vanilla so nobody can disagree with it. And, you know, I'm I'm kind of like somebody told me recently that I'm like, my, I have aggressive opinions. And I was like, Oh, I don't know that about myself. It's like, really? And they're like, yeah, like, she's like, you're like unapologetically you. And she's like, I like it. She goes, but I could see why we're might scare somebody. And I was like, Oh, I was like, I don't know that about myself. Like this is just how I am like, I'm not out here acting like a thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, you're just being you, man. But anyway, like, so that is part of my plan, by the way was to put out information that was so good that even people who didn't like me would kind of be forced, you've heard me say on the podcast, who are my favorite review, basically says, I hate that guy. But my a one C is so good that I listen to this podcast. Like, that's my I swear to you, that's my favorite review.

Natalie 1:16:39
Well, and every time I hear you talk about that review, I giggle to myself, because I will tell you the first couple episodes that I listened to, I was like, Who is this guy think he is? Why is he talking over these people? And and then you went through the phase where you actually started looking at how much you talked versus how much they talked. And so I think you made some adjustments there. But you know, you said it earlier, you've grown you've evolved. And I think the interviews now are really entertaining to listen to. I'm so glad. Like we said the info was so good that, that I kept listening.

Scott Benner 1:17:11
I hooked you. I kept you here, I guess basically against your will. And then yeah, yeah. You've basically been human traffic is what you're saying.

Natalie 1:17:23
Your traffic. I've had to listen to

Scott Benner 1:17:25
you. By the way, there's a great example of something most people wouldn't say. And, and even as I'm here, I'm like, Yeah, I like, I don't think I shouldn't have said it. I just think it's not something I don't even know what I meant by it, to be perfectly honest with like, You got hijacked basically, like, and I just don't have. I want to say that I don't care. But that's not true. I just think that the ends. I don't think that's right, either. I was gonna say the ends justify the means. But I don't think that's right, either. I guess what I believe is, is that this has to be enticing some way or another. Because it's information about diabetes, and who in the hell wants to listen to that? Like, that's just what I think of it. ever see the movie private parts? You know what that movie is? Okay. Private Parts is like a. It's like a movie about the Howard Stern's career. And there's this

Natalie 1:18:21
okay. I probably did watch it. But it's been a long time. Okay. And

Scott Benner 1:18:25
so there's this, there's this scene. I don't know if it's real, or it's not. But he goes into a different market. They're having these reactions to him. And they're doing the, you know, the people who he works for are looking at the data. And they're looking at the feedback from people. And they're talking about how long people who like Howard Stern listen to him. They say oh, like the average listener who says that they like the I don't know, the whole quote, but like, who says they like him? Listen for this long. When asked why they listen, answer most oftenly given is I want to hear what they'll say next. And then they say the people who don't like him, they actually listen longer than the people who do like him. And when they're asked why they said, I want to hear what he's going to say next. Next thing. And part of that is what I'm doing here, whether you know it or not, so

Natalie 1:19:19
but so we want to hear what you say next. That's

Scott Benner 1:19:22
all like he just like, is he gonna say something stupid? Let me let me find out like is this going to be like valuable? Is it going to be like a tear jerker? I mean, honestly, like, some of the episodes are me people say that. There are times that while people are talking, I'm thinking, Are you sure you want to say this? You know, like, and we'll get to the end and we're not being recorded anymore. And I'll go like, Hey, you said some fairly personal stuff back there. You okay with that? For sure. Like we're not being recorded anymore. Like now's the time. Just go. I shouldn't have said that. And they're like, no, no, I want it to help other people. And everyone always comes from that person. back there. And I think that's part of why it works is because now the people who are coming on the show are saying, this show helped me. I've got some odd stuff in my life that I didn't think would have happened to anybody else. But it turns out, I might be wrong about that this crazy stuff happens to everybody. And let me go tell my story. So somebody else can feel like how I felt. So I can't thank those people. I know, you're so

Natalie 1:20:23
authentic Scott. And then you bring your guests on, and you allow them to be authentic to and I would have never guessed in a million years that I would reach out to you and say, Hey, I think I need to be on your podcast. But it was in that that interest of helping people and telling what's happened to me so that maybe other people can identify with it as well. And it hopefully will help them.

Scott Benner 1:20:46
Yeah, that's a great place to stop. Okay, thank you, Natalie. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thanks, Scott. Yeah, hold on a second.

You can use the same continuous glucose monitor that Arden uses. All you have to do is go to dexcom.com/juice box and get started today. That's right, the Dexcom g7 is sponsoring this episode of The Juicebox Podcast. If you're looking for community around type one diabetes, check out the Juicebox Podcast private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes, but everybody is welcome. Type one type two gestational loved ones. It doesn't matter to me. If you're impacted by diabetes, and you're looking for support, comfort or community, check out Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook. If you're not already subscribed or following in your favorite audio app, please take the time now to do that. It really helps the show and get those automatic downloads set up so you never miss an episode. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording. Wrong way recording.com