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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1064 of the Juicebox Podcast

Hello, everyone, welcome back. This is another installment of the parenting series that still doesn't seem to have a name we just call it parenting. I guess that's the name really. Today's episode is called self care and personal growth for parents. It's with Erica Forsythe, who of course, is a she's a lifelong type one almost 35 plus years, she's a therapist, and you can visit her at Erica forsythe.com. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan or becoming bold with insulin. Check out cozy earth.com and then use the offer code juice box at checkout to save 40% Check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes and then become a member. That's pretty much what I got for you today. You don't know forget that you want an AMI pod you want to Dexcom you want check out us med about G vo Capo pen use the links there in the show notes of this audio player. And they also exist at juicebox podcast.com. When you support the podcast using those links, you help to keep the show free and plentiful. This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by us med now us med is where Arden gets her Dexcom and Omni pod supplies from but they have much more than that. Us med.com/juice box head over there now and get your free benefits check. Or you can call 888721151 for us med has everything you're looking for, and so much more. Hey, Erica, how are you? Hi,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:00
well, thanks. How are you?

Scott Benner 2:02
I'm good. We are doing Episode Three today of the parenting series. Today's task for us is going to be talking about self care and personal growth for the parents. Yes, I have to admit, if I put this list together on my own, I wouldn't have put this in here. So I'm very interested in why you put it in.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 2:21
I think it's important as we've reviewed so far, you know, the different parenting styles. And then in our most recent episode, we discussed communication, positive communication, and the effectiveness of you know, conflict resolution, I think it's good to kind of pause and we can really get down on ourselves as parents. And I think it's important to take a pause on the education and information and say, we also need to take care of ourselves in this process, as we are thinking about, Gosh, I really want to grow this area as a parent or gosh, I could really improve in how I communicate with my partner or my child, we also need to look at ourselves and say, gosh, we need to take breaks, we need to implement either small or large ways to practice the self care.

Scott Benner 3:11
Okay. This is with a diabetes diagnosis in your life and without both right?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 3:18
Yes, yes. Abs? Oh, absolutely. But it

Scott Benner 3:21
does become more in your face. I think once there's diabetes, I would actually think whether you're a parent of a child with type one, or if you had diabetes yourself, I think it kind of ramps up at that point. And, and someone shared a personal anecdote with me recently, that I'm gonna I think I'm gonna bring up in this episode. But the first thing I think is for me, you know, I had a baby when, I mean, I wasn't really super young, but I wasn't probably as old as I wish I was When Kelly had call. And then Arden came, you know, a handful years later. What I can say is that when you're young, and you'd have that you still have that, like I can do anything feeling and you're never tired, right? And doesn't matter what you eat, it doesn't seem like and you know, your body just chugs along, and then you get thrown into that kid thing. You attack that. I mean, I attacked it with the same kind of like, perspective of like, oh, we can do anything and bah bah, bah, but it kicks your ass pretty quick. You know, and the first thing that gets you I mean, what are your remembrances of having small children? It's, you know, what's the first thing that like kind of took you from your baseline just down a little bit and you didn't rebound again?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 4:36
Oh, lack of sleep. Yeah, for sure. So I

Scott Benner 4:39
was gonna say too, and the thing people tell you while you're pregnant, get your sleep now. Yes. Yeah, that's like a little falsehood because Pete I think people think you can bank sleep a little bit. Yeah. Like, I'll sleep for a year and I'll be good for three years and, boy, it doesn't work like that. It takes a couple of nights. have broken sleep, and you just your eyes get crossed, you know? And then you're off to the races right? Then you're, then you're not judging things, and making decisions as your best self anymore. And you don't know it after a while that I think that's kind of the scary part, honestly.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 5:19
Absolutely lack of sleep, you then you think you have adjusted, and that becomes your new normal, and then adding in, if you have a young child, infant, toddler young child with who was diagnosed with diabetes, then that obviously compounds it. But I think we do we kind of trick ourselves thinking, Okay, I'm just I'm going to be tired, I'm gonna function this way. And you do adjust and adapt. But then you it's like, you know, when you were sick, you have a cold for so long, and then all of a sudden, you don't have the cold. You're like, oh, my gosh, I forgot what it was like to not be sick. Yeah, I think the minute you start to recoup some of that sleep, you start to realize, wow, I've been really irritable and not being able to make decisions correctly or speaking. The way I want to, I

Scott Benner 6:06
sometimes think that when people think they've adjusted, what they've really done is lowered their bar. Right? Because anything that doesn't end with you falling over dead, you think you've adjusted, like, I can do it. You ever hear people say, I only need three hours of sleep a night? And I'm like, that's not right at all.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 6:24
I mean, maybe some people do. But I certainly need more than that. Yes.

Scott Benner 6:28
I think fairly, like, you know, believable science tells you you need I think at least six, right? Like some people are better. And some people work better 678 Some people like, but when you start telling yourself, I'm the one who doesn't need to sleep. You are. I mean, I did it. I'm speaking from personal experience, you know, the diabetes, especially in the beginning, without the monitoring that exists now, you know, you're up at all hours of the night. And you know, I mean, if you have a CGM now, and you can think of what that feels like, when it's just warming up, and you're like, I don't know what's happening. That was 24/7. You know, you grew up like this and live like this for decades. But that's 24/7 As a parent, where you're laying in bed thinking, I wonder what her blood sugar is now. And then you go check, and then you go lay back down, and then you realize, I wonder what it is now? And what is it in 10 minutes? And is it rising or falling, and then you try to sleep and that's, that's a tough, tough thing to do. So you don't you don't sleep to situations you hear people say all the time, like I made their blood sugar high, so they could sleep and blah, blah, blah, like you get into those situations where you catch a couple of hours, obeying, you never really hit that deep, that deep sleep, and I just for me, I think it alters who you are. I just I really do. So. So then the problem is, how do you fix that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 7:51
Yeah, so I think just, before we move into that, I think the difference with as we were talking, remembering, you know, being a parent to an infant or a newborn is, you also can tell yourself, okay, this is temporary, you know, at some point, your child is going to start sleeping through the night. And then obviously, the difference with a parent with type one, treating your child with type one is, you know, they're never really going to feel like it's never going to end. And in that space is where the self care needs to kick in. Yeah,

Scott Benner 8:23
and for good reasons, too. Because if you keep spiraling, if the baby, the quote, unquote, baby is now the diabetes, and the feeling is the baby's never gonna grow up. So it's always gonna be an infant, it's always going to need me in the middle of the night, weird times, if that's your expectation, and it keeps creating bigger and bigger deficits for you. And I mean, like physical and mental deficits for you, then you are in the worst position possible to figure out diabetes so that the baby can grow up and it can get more manageable for you. That's Yes, you don't I mean, like, that's the spot where you have to, it's where you have to at some point, say, I have to give a little bit of now away for later. Does that make sense? Like, like, we're either going to stay in this hell forever, or I'm going to find a way to get some sleep, find some clarity, figure this out, so that this isn't always happening. Yeah, I think that's it. But how do you make that leap when it feels like closing your eyes? is ignoring something that's potentially dangerous?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 9:26
I think we could answer that two different ways. The first acknowledging that is, is what is keeping you up. Let's let's make the assumption that your child's management is in range and things feel in control. What is keeping up as the anxiety or the you know, as we talked about in the last episode, you like that mental load if you're thinking about all your tasks that you did or did not complete that day and what you need to do the next day and then you're wondering if your child's safe. If that is piece is what's keeping you up? Then I would, you know, encourage you to look at okay, is it? Do you need to find support? Do you find need to find a mental health support? Do you need to find support groups? Are there other outlets that you can tap into to help kind of alleviate some of that burden that you're carrying? And maybe the first step is saying to yourself, I'm never going to finish the task list. I'm never going to check it all off. Maybe it's reaching out to your peers, to your community, to your family members. I think that we could go into that path. And then the other path is, well, is it because you aren't you haven't found the right way to manage your child's diabetes? And it does feel, you know, uncontrollable, scary, confusing the way it does for a lot of us for the first weeks, months, years. Yeah.

Scott Benner 10:52
Well, I know for sure, the wrong thing to do is to yell at each other. Yeah. But when you get that, that anxiety bubbles up inside, and diabetes can hear you so you can't yell at it. You pretty much can't yell at your kids. But but you know, I have to say though, I um, I did a talk this weekend with a roomful of children, like from like, they were like five years old to I think like 13, or 14, it was really great. And some of them, some of their parents stayed and some of their parents didn't. And I made this announcement, the beginning. I'm like, Listen, this is not really meant for you guys to be here. We want the kids to speak freely. So you know, get out. And but some people stayed, which was fine. But some of the kids still had the nerve to speak up in front of their parents. And that was interesting. Because I asked them, hey, what do your parents do that you wish they didn't do? And one girl said, they yell at me about my diabetes. And like, her mom was sitting right next to her. And I was like, this kid needs help that badly, that she was willing to say that out loud with her mom and her mom, like, I felt bad for you. Because then she spoke up and said, You know, I, you know, I don't mean to do that. And, you know, I was like, Oh, this is good. But so they they were talking and and that was it. Kids said either I get yelled at for it. Or it sometimes makes they make it feel like it's my fault. And those are? Those are tough, right? Because I figure the yelling is just the the anxiety, the adrenaline from all this just boiling over?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 12:28
And maybe fear. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Scott Benner 12:31
And then the even the blaming thing is, I think I get that I think it's like, you know, I've done everything I know how to do and it still went wrong. So it wasn't my fault. Like, it's almost that pressure of like, I don't want to be the one to cause your health issue. And there's no one else to blame. So to alleviate your own burden, you push it to somebody else, you know, meanwhile, it's it's diabetes fault. You know, it's not, it's no, it's no one's fault. Really. It's difficult. But anyway, the parents like, talked about it. And it was, it seemed good for them. You know, it was it was nice. And I think about that now, while you're talking because this is what's going to happen. I mean, I lived through it. There was I can remember very clearly, this moment, it's in the middle of the night. And Arden hadn't had diabetes for long, she was like really little still. And I can picture us in our old kitchen with her sitting on the counter. We've tested her blood sugar, it's low. And my wife thinks that one food product is the way to bring your blood sugar up, and I think it's another one. And we get embroiled standing on a freezing kitchen floor in our underwear at three o'clock in the morning, yelling at each other about which one of these things is going to save our life. And we're reasonably intelligent people. And that was a moment I look back on and I think, oh my god, like what was wrong with us? Like, who cares? They just give her something. And but it was that it's that feeling inside? Like I've had the answer, like the US may question what's gonna save Arden and an answer popped into my head. Same thing happened to Callie. And now we think we're saving her life. And anyone who disagrees with us is disagreeing with saving Arden is how it felt. And then we argued with each other in front of our kid who had a low blood sugar. And the floor was cold. I remember the floor being really cold. Yes, so well

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 14:31
and layering on, you know, all of the just exhaustion you're carrying. It's the middle of the night you guys are fatigued, you probably you know you're under stress. And now and now we're going to try and have a reasonable conversation when Arden just needs you know, needs something

Scott Benner 14:47
while there's a ticking time bomb next to you. Yeah, that's how it feels. Yeah, it's going tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. What's that I'm gonna blow up. I'm gonna blow up do the right thing. Cut the right wire is kind of how it feels, you know? And I don't know how much good parenting, I would have had to go through what my wife would have had to go through or how much counseling we would have needed for that not to happen that night. I have no idea like, didn't you mean? Or if it was fader complete if it was always gonna go down like that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:13
I have no right. i Well, I think part of it is being able to maybe say not in the moment, but to say later, like, you know what, this probably is very normal. This is a very normal experience for parents. Particularly how old man that was. You guys were new newly into it.

Scott Benner 15:29
I mean, Arden was like, still two years old. Okay. And that makes me nine to 17 years younger than this. I think, is that how math works? I mean, I was like, I was almost 20. I was probably like, in my early 30s.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 15:46
Okay, and she was just a couple months into it. Yeah. Is there a diagnosis? We didn't

Scott Benner 15:52
know what the hell we were doing? Yeah. Yeah. They oh, by the way, it's like, hey, like, your blood sugar is low. And then nobody panics anymore. We're just like, we're just, like, take care of it. But that's experience right over and over.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 16:05
Really? I think the piece of you know, the parenting, as I talked about a lot with parents who are whom I work with is diabetes can bring to the surface, all those issues that maybe we thought You thought there had been, you know, you had addressed or communication styles that it just brings it all to the surface. And that's okay, there's is not there's not shame, and that that's just how chronic illness in a family can affect you. And so just even acknowledging with your partner, wow, we are this is really hard. And and yes, we, we can understand why we're disagreeing, and we're arguing, and how can we like to kind of like normalizing it for yourselves. I think it's part of the process and not, you know, we're not arguing because you're arguing, to say, well, we're arguing because this is really stressful, and we're really tired, we're really stressed. And a lot of people are probably doing this as well, in our same shoes.

Scott Benner 17:05
There are times when I think of the rate of divorce, for example. And I think that it's sort of random, like unless there's something like really crazy going on, you know, if people are being abusive to each other or something like that, like taking that stuff aside, just taking two regular people who are together. I think that everybody who has diabetes has diabetes supplies, but not everybody gets them from us med the way we do us med.com forward slash juicebox, or call 888721151 for us med is the number one distributor for FreeStyle Libre systems nationwide. They are the number one specialty distributor for Omni pod dash, the number one fastest growing tandem distributor nationwide. And they always provide 90 days worth of supplies, and fast and free shipping. That's right us med carries everything from insulin pumps to diabetes testing supplies, right up to your latest CGM, like the FreeStyle Libre two, n three, and the Dexcom, G six and seven. They even have Omni pod dash and Omni pod five, they have an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and you can reach them at 888-721-1514. Or by going to my link us med.com forward slash juicebox. When you contact them, you get your free benefits check. And then if they take your insurance, you're often going and US med takes over 800 private insurers and Medicare nationwide. better service and better care is what US med wants to provide for you. Us med.com forward slash juicebox get your diabetes supplies the same way Arden does from us med links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. To us Med and all the sponsors, when you use my links, you're supporting the show. Most of us are not brought up in a way where we have good conflict resolution. I don't know that we're good at those things, generally as people, so sometimes I just think it's like a roll of the dice. Like how many bad situations you get in? And is there enough time in between them for a cleansing of your palate? And are people whose relationships fail just in more of a rapid fire problem than other people? Like is it kind of that random? Like, have you ever had that feeling? Like if you've ever been in a disagreement with your spouse and thought if only that wouldn't have come on television just now or we could handle this next week, but not today? We just had that thing three days ago like you don't do you know what I mean?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 19:48
Yes, yeah. Yes, there's a some moment or one look or one phrase that you hear or someone else says can just trigger you both just enough to get you into that space and you're like wow, What if I had just driven home five minutes later, you know,

Scott Benner 20:03
Oh, no 100% You're just and then that feeling of, if only this would have happened two weeks from now even. And we were in a calmer place like this would have been okay. But then what happens when it's diabetes, and it's a low blood sugar at two o'clock in the morning, followed by a high blood sugar at 7am, followed by a spouse who doesn't want to Bolus and one does want to Bolus and like, and these things keep happening every three hours. And then you hear people get divorced. And you think well, yeah, that makes sense. They're in constant conflict. Right. I don't know that. That means that you're bad at conflict resolution. I think it kind of could mean that it's difficult to I don't it's just difficult to be be shot at constantly like that, you know?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 20:43
Yes, John Gottman, who has done a lot of research in relationships, he's a psychologist, I'm trying to try and pull up the stat really quickly. He has, he says that we need, like 90 positive interactions for every negative. And that could mean a look, a gesture, a positive, you know, sentence. That's huge. But I know that's not the right number, but it's the amount it's a massive amount for every negative because we know we're gonna have these negative interactions with our partners, right? So I will.

Scott Benner 21:21
So you're saying that, you know, my bedroom, and I see my wife shoes all over the place. And I think, why does the person need that many shoes? And why don't they put them away? I now have to have 90 Good interactions with my wife to make that feeling go away?

Speaker 2 21:35
Yes. Something suddenly around that number.

Scott Benner 21:39
And when she looks over me and things, like I ruined my life by marrying me now 90 Good things have to happen to me. Yes, yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 21:50
Maybe next time I'll have the right number, the ratio, but it is I mean, it is it's it's pretty significant. He can predict with all of his research, he's done amazing things in the in the research of relationships and marriages. You know, there's like, predictive factors leading to divorce. But one of the things that is preventative factor is this ratio of positive to negative interaction. I

Scott Benner 22:14
love that you said that it made me feel like I noticed something that was true. I was like, Cool. Maybe I'm right. Again, I'll share this one. I think this is a tried and true marriage. Valuable marriage technique. Look for someone you can both be mad at at the same time. I love being on the same side of an argument with my wife. There's nothing better than when she says something. And I'm like, oh, that does make me upset too. I immediately get next to her. And I'm like, you and I were in this together. I hate that person to. And then I honestly think I know that sounds. Maybe it sounds ridiculous. I honestly think that it helps every once in a while just to be kind of simpatico on something. You know what I mean? Like something that's in arguable, like we're right. By the way, I don't know if we're really right. Doesn't really matter. Right. But we're right. Those people are clearly wrong. This thing is definitely wrong. Whatever. We agree we're on the same team. I think it's like a it's almost like team building a little bit.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 23:10
Yes. Well, it's absolutely because you think about you feel bonded next year teammates when you're competing against someone on the other team, right? And the goal is to win. So it's a similar experience, the emotions that you experience in that that connectivity, okay, my wife's got my back in this, she's got mine. We both feel the same way on this topic, right?

Scott Benner 23:32
I go so far down this road, because I think that in the moment when these things are happening, first of all, you do not plan for your kid to have diabetes. So this stuff is going to come at you a million miles an hour, if it happened to you the way it happened to us, our life was going along pretty well. Like we were savers, and planners a little bit, we were moving in a direction on purpose. You know, like, and we were growing our family, and we were growing our you know, our home, and we were doing the things that you know, you know, you're supposed to do in that Norman Rockwell painting. So we were on the way to those things, then all of a sudden, somebody's like, hey, that kid's pancreas doesn't work anymore. And this is insulin. And if you use too much, you'll kill her. And if you don't use enough, you're gonna kill her later. And we were like, Oh, great. I was just cutting the lawn last weekend. You know what I mean? Like I didn't I didn't know about all this. You don't have time to say, Oh, I hope my blah, blah, blah skills are intact, because I bet you are going to be yelling at each other six months from now in the kitchen. And it just it hits you so quickly. It hits you quickly and slowly at the same time. I don't know if that makes sense or not. But it's like a drip, drip drip, almost like a torture. And at the same time it pulls you over so you get knocked back. And then every time you try to stand back up again. It just feels like that slow drip is pushing you back down. And like you said earlier, after a while you don't notice it happening. And that's really when you get to it. So what Help they get a safe word. That's the wrong for racing. But but you know, like, maybe somebody should maybe you should get together with your spouse and say, hey, if something goes off the rails, we need to be able to say something that the other we both agree we'll just stop. Does that work? Yes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 25:14
Yes, I think it will works. I know, it works really well with parent and child like if they if you both find yourselves, you know, looping through the same argument to have that, that safe word or kind of a cue word, then that you're telling your brain and your child or your partner's brain? Oh, yeah, we're doing that thing again. Let's say the word and sometimes it can make you laugh. It could be silly, like, you know, Snoopy, um, I don't know, like something that just interrupts that pattern for you to step away. And then you guys can then you can regroup. I think, yeah, when you're finding yourselves in that pattern, because you're exhausted and you're stressed and exhausted, doesn't even describe it right? That the fatigue level is so significant, it's hard to even notice when you're in it. Yeah, when you are looping through, I think that the safe word and then know what you're going to do next is also really helpful to step away to take your deep breaths, to say, hey, let's regroup in 30 minutes or tomorrow. And sometimes you don't even need to necessarily reconnect, you both are just acknowledging, oh, yeah, we're doing this thing again. Because while what we're doing is really hard, and I think the first, the first step, even in self care, besides all the things that, you know, we've always we talked about, is really just the self compassion piece of, okay, how can you be compassionate towards yourself, doing something that is so challenging day in day out, and then offering that compassion to your partner as well. But that said, I just I like that, you know, self care is self compassion when there's so much pressure that you place on yourself as a parent to a type one child, that is just it's hard to bear.

Scott Benner 27:05
Yeah, and I guess, so you can you can seek this kind of care or do things for yourself? I mean, in your private time, like, is it a thing you should do on your own? Do you mean, like, do I? Do I do it at work? Do I do it in the car? Do I do it while the kids are snapping? You know, like, where do you? Like, if you figure out something that would help you? I don't know, I don't even know what that thing would be like a thing that would alleviate your stress or anxiety for a little bit? I mean, how do you implement it into a day that already seems very full to begin with? You know, what I mean? And how do you know yourself well enough to decide what that thing should be?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 27:46
Those are great questions. Yeah. If you find that you are constantly feeling like, you know, the, the mantra of, I'm never, not a good enough parent, I'm not a good enough. spouse, I'm not a good enough employee. I'm not a good enough homemaker or I'm not, you know, all anything you can fill in the blank. If you if you resonate with that, that is an indicator for you to say, Gosh, I'm being really hard on myself. There's something in your self talk and narrative that you are trying to perform, and perfect, and produce something that is unattainable. Because as we know, perfect management is unattainable. And being perfect, in general is debatable. But if you're living under that pressure, and feeling like gosh, I could never I'm never gonna get my list done. I'm never going to, you know, do all the things I want to do, then you're just that's that credit, that self criticism is hard to carry, that also creates emotional fatigue and physical fatigue and stress. So understanding and clueing and kind of checking in with yourself, how do you how do you talk to yourself? In those moments, when you're driving to work when you're, you know, doing the dishes when you're typing at work? What is that voice that you hear? Yeah. And then the next step is to try and integrate some of that self compassion, like, you know what I'm doing the best I can. I'm, I'm working really hard. And if that feels like that step is can be hard to do independently. And so maybe that is when therapy can be helpful or support groups, or share kind of unloading some of the burden if you can, to your your partner or to your family.

Scott Benner 29:32
You just let somebody else tell you hey, I've been through that. It's, you know, it gets better or don't be so hard on yourself that kind of stuff.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:40
Yes, I mean, normalizing your experience. I think it can be helpful for someone to say don't be so hard on yourself, but sometimes you can even receive that as

Scott Benner 29:50
Oh, look, you're doing this wrong. Yeah, yeah. It's

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 29:53
further of God kind of further. Shame way to go.

Scott Benner 29:55
You can't handle that kids blood sugar, and you don't even know how to talk to yourself like you feel like Don't cry. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:01
But I think people mean, well, when they're trying to say like, like, You're doing a great job, you're doing the best you can don't be so hard on yourself. That's all that's helpful and someone's trying to cheer you on. So if you're saying those things, I'm not saying that's, that's sure, bad. But to receive that can be challenging. If you haven't learned how to say, You know what, I am doing the best I can, and I am doing a good enough job. And maybe it's simply starting off with I am good enough period, to

Scott Benner 30:30
loop back to the first episode about the different parenting styles, which parenting style would have prepared me better for my daughter having diabetes.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:42
But like as you as a child having parents, are you

Scott Benner 30:46
what, what could my parents have done? That would have made me a more reasonable human being? And so when this thing happened to me, maybe I would have said, I guess it doesn't matter if she drinks the milk or the juice,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 30:58
probably the authoritative, right? Where you are giving space to the child, there's, there's these boundaries, there's expectations, there's rules and consequences. There's also space for mistakes. Okay? And, and letting the child learn from some of those mistakes, that you're not going to be perfect. And that you can you know that within that you're not letting them make mistakes, you're not being permissive, but you're also allowing them to learn from like, you're not going to be perfect. It's,

Scott Benner 31:35
it's interesting, isn't it? That the way my parents parented me, for example, I don't think by any stretch of imagination would have been something somebody would have told you to do in a parenting manual. And yet, the mix of who I am and the experiences I was went through, led me to be a person who's a reasonably good parent, but not until I met my wife who fine tuned the whole thing at the end, right? Like she she took, like, she took what they put out in the world, me. And she was like, that's close, but not quite right. And then you know, and then she was like, here's like this, this Don't yell, stuff like that. And now I'm a I'm a, I'm a very good parent now, like, I just I am, I'm 52. I mean, I couldn't actually raise a baby anymore. But if you gave me one, I think it would turn out really great. So if I could stay alive long enough to handle but I'm. So there's this weirdness, because there's something about the mess that my life was, it turned me into this. And at the same time, I sit here and I say, Well, if people would have just done a better job, maybe I would have gotten to it sooner. But then also, there's part of me that thinks that maybe I never would have gotten to it. Like maybe that tornado is part of how I ended up where I am. And are we really trying to be perfect? Or fit a mold? Or are we just maybe we should just be looking at some simple truth. Like we shouldn't be yelling at each other. Don't blame people for things don't pressure people. You don't need to be perfect, like, just like those Simplicity's, I think, are what lead to a reasonable human being coming out of your house as an adult. But I could be completely wrong. And if my kids end up shooting somebody in the street, you guys will be like that guy was definitely wrong. But right now, right now, they Eric is like, Don't use such rough examples. Let's just say it, they're found selling heroin. How's that? Oh, my gosh. So what else we made? Nevermind. My kids are on a good path so far. I'm comfortable with where they are. And I think if I were to like disappear today, they'd be all right. Like, it's sort of like the best thing. I mean, that was my hope, right, that they'd be able to take care of themselves reasonably. But I don't think it's because I followed an exact parenting style. I think it's because I honestly, I think it's because we follow common sense. But I don't know how to teach that to people either. You know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 34:01
what common sense and also a sense of safety, security, that they are loved. You want your child to know that they are loved, for who they are not for what they do. And that sense of secure attachment where you probably really, I imagined focused in on because then you didn't necessarily have that growing up. And so you, you did evolve because of your childhood and who you want it to become as apparent ends up

Scott Benner 34:31
being a blend to like one of the best ways I can explain this is that if I talked to Arden before a softball game, I would say I tell her I loved her. I would tell her doesn't matter if you get hit today, you know, just do your best all that stuff. And then I'd leave her with get out there and make those girls cry. Because Because if they're not crying when this is over, we have not beat them sufficiently. Now, did I really want them crying? No, she knew I didn't really mean that like that. But there was this like, there was this In this place of comfort and safety, you're okay, I love you, no matter what happens, none of this matters. It's a softball game, blah, blah, blah. But if we're gonna get involved in it, go out there. And do your best. Yeah, like, really try it. Like, don't just show up here for fun. Like, let's try to kick their ass if we can. And even with that, you know, I say all the time. Using sports again, as an example. They say that the they say the statistics say that the year my son started playing little league when he was four or five years old, that 4 million other American boys started playing Little League baseball that year. Wow. And that when those boys went to college, a slightly over 9000 of them went to play college baseball. Of those 4 million kids. Wow. That's the 123 and JUCO. That's four levels of college baseball. And I watched those other guys whose kids did not make it to college to play baseball. I watched how they talk to their kids. And it was, go get it, kill it. You can't fail, blah, blah, blah, I would tell my son over and over again, this is just practice, like everything is practice. Why do we play baseball, so you can play more baseball, you want to get you want to get better, so that somebody still wants you on their team next year. Like that's what you're doing. None of this matters. It's all meaningless. And I never told my son, I never told my son that baseball mattered. Until the first time he showed up at a college recruiting thing. And I just told him in the car, I said, It all matters now, like, if you want to keep playing baseball, you actually have to go do the thing right now. And he went and did it. And then he went to college and play baseball. But it was I'll tell you right now, if you go back 15 years before that, and get all those dads together. And I would have said that's how I'm gonna parent this, it would have laughed me right out of that room. The only one that went to play college baseball in this town, in his age group. So I don't know. He also was talented and athletic. And like, don't get me wrong. I didn't just like, he was like this little chubby kid. It wasn't all you you could do it, buddy. But yeah, it wasn't. Because I know plenty of kids who love baseball, that they can't hold the bat. Right. But that's not that's You can't talk them into getting there. But I do think that as an, as he's become an adult, I see that in him still. Like that he knows that the thing I'm doing is the thing I'm doing. It's not. It's not the end all be all, like this doesn't have to go perfectly? And I don't know, to me, like, those are the little things as your parenting. Those are the important ideas to pull out and to use repetition for. And I think you can also offer that back to yourself as a parent. Yes. Right. Which is that, you know, whether or not my kid comes home today with an A on a test, or, you know, got in trouble for cursing and social studies. Like this is not, this wasn't the goal. You don't I mean, like you're not trying to be the prettiest girl on eighth grade is kind of what I'm thinking like, there's you should have a long term view of what you're trying to accomplish and and see that the small moments while important, none of them rise to the occasion of needing to be judged over. I guess. And I think that about diabetes to you're still alive, you're doing great. You know, there's always time to learn and grow and get better. So you can play again tomorrow. I guess that's what I think that's what I'm saying.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 38:30
And but you're in a position now to be able to look back and reflect. And I think and then when you're in it you I imagine you also had those moments of like, oh my gosh, this feels really confusing or scary. And I'm very stressed out that anxiety

Scott Benner 38:48
like, Should we be one of the people who throws a picnic after a game so everybody likes him? Well, that makes sure he plays like that crap that you're all worried about right now. So unimportant. And but I get it like it popped up in my wife hit me one time, she's like, You should coach a team. That's the only way he's gonna get a fair shake. And she, by the way, in the moment, she wasn't wrong. But I said, I don't think that's good for him. So let those other three guys go out there and create horrible relationships with their sons to win a baseball game and a field in the middle of nowhere that nobody cares about. Like, I'm not I'm not trading our relationship for that. You know, but yeah, the the hindsight is helpful, because the pressure is immense while you're in it. And I do think that that does apply to a blood sugar. One ad, oh my god, I messed it up. This is the end. We're never going to get this. This is a failure. Like, I know how that feels. But that's not true. You know, that's not true at all, aren't they? Once he is he's terrific. Right now she's off to college again. I'd have to look it up but I think it's somewhere near like six to right now that Her managing on her own with an algorithm but her managing on her own. And, you know, her variability was terrific. Last week I looked at I think it was like 28 or so like her standard deviation was like 20. Last week, I was like, that's amazing. She still had, I would say, four or five blood sugars in the last week and a half that went up to 200. and stayed there for a while. And it was a mistake, it was a bad site. It was one time was a bad site, that she should have changed. And I chose not to tell her that, because I think she knows, and it wouldn't be worse for our relationship. If I, if I said that in that moment. Right? If she was eight, and we were at home, I would have been like you're taking this pump off. And all we're doing right, right, right. But this is a different situation. One time, she just missed on some food. But she's like cooking for herself now. And like, You got to kind of see the bigger picture. Like she had an apartment, she's making her own meals, she forgot the Pre-Bolus. But she also made a meal for herself. And I was like, Good, well, then we're not gonna say anything about this. Now, if it stays high for a little while, I'll send a text and I'll say, hey, you know what? I think you got to look, this is the algorithm asking for insulin that you're not like, like you should give it if it's asking. And she doesn't even answer me anymore. I just it happens, your blood sugar comes down. And even that, like, I'm not looking to be right. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have a need to be like, See, I told you so. I just wanted to like, I think one day she'll just start doing it on our own. And, and again, you know,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 41:35
and she is right, she's doing it on our own. Yeah,

Scott Benner 41:38
she's doing terrific. But again, if you if you stop in any one of those scenarios, and start judging every step as this is completely dire, then you're gonna go crazy, they're gonna go crazy, you're gonna have a bad relationship, blood sugars are not going to be good. It's not going to lead to some sort of like, oh, he was right, I'll take care of it. And in the meantime, you're all beat up. And I mean, all of you, you're all beat up by it. So there's some reason something in that I'm not great at like, I'm not very good at tying this together for some reason today. But something in that is why you have to take care of yourself, and not put yourself in a position where you're ranting or raving or seeing things as dire when they're not. Because it snowballs and then you're flying down the hill, and you can't stop anymore. So is that right? Yes,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 42:29
yes, because in the moment, as you're caregiving for your five year old or 10 year old or 15 year old, you're also doing all the other things to function as an adult. And then you have this other significant load of stress as you're managing, watching watching the the numbers on the Dexcom, the CGM, or, you know, however you're managing, and then you can get so as you're, I think you're as you're articulating, like, you just get so caught up in each moment to moment to moment, and having that automatic thought response of, are we are, am I failing is my child feeling? This is overwhelming. And oftentimes, I will meet with caregivers who are wanting support for their children. And then soon enough, they realize, gosh, I've, I just need this space, I need the support. And even so even as a caregiver, when you're looking for help for your child or your other family members, you're still thinking about the other person. Yeah. But eventually you then come you realize, gosh, you know what, this is too much. It's too much to carry by yourself. And even simply by taking that time out of your day, and I'm not just talking about for therapy, but for anything. Yeah.

Scott Benner 43:47
I just interviewed a woman recently, who has type one or kids has kid has type one. And they're both on the same algorithm. And she said something about the podcast made her think, oh, I should go back and look at settings. We could probably tighten this up a little bit. Things have gotten away from us over time. So she goes looks at the kid settings, adjust them all. brings blood sugars back where she wants, and then never does it. First off. I said why not? Just I don't know. I said it would have been five more minutes. You were there you already doing it? Like why not just do it for yourself to just like, I don't know why I didn't do it for myself. So I mean, that's always going to be USC parents do that all the time. Right. Like, yeah, you know, you make a meal for someone and you don't even eat, you just have the scraps while you're cooking or something like that. Like it's okay, as long as they're okay. Like that. That kind of stuff is is always going to be but you have to you have to find a way to step back and I have a real serious question that you're initially going to think is me joking around, but I am absolutely not okay. Okay. As married people. Intimacy and sex is really important, except when all this stuff starts happening as one of the first things to go out the window. You know, It's not fun like it was when you were young anymore. Like, that just was gonna happen, by the way, whether your kid gets diabetes or not, that's going to happen one way or the other. But it's, it's not going to feel like you're in the back of a car. And we're 16. And this is crazy, you know, but, but it's still very important. Like, even just like skin on skin contact, like holding hands, or like rubbing people's backs or something, all that stuff starts to drift away when you're pissed. And we're tired, and we're tired. And I'm going to generalize here. You could make me pissed, or tired, or all the things. And then Erica asked me if I wanted to have sex. And I would 100% say yes. But it doesn't seem to work the same way for Lady sometimes. And so then that feels like rejection for the guy. And I'm sure women feel terrible, because they're not getting the things that they need to feel like they want to have sex either. I don't know how to fix this. Like, I don't know what to say to people. Obviously. It's also I mean, maybe I'm wrong. But I also think it's a little bit of nature, trying to say like, Well, you already made babies, we don't need you to keep doing this, like so maybe your desire drops to begin with, but then all this stuff happens on top of it, you can't even find the fun part of it, let alone let alone the emotional life part of it. So I don't know, like, is there? Is there a thing people should be looking at for that. And

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 46:21
I think it's interesting that we bring this up in kind of the self care topic, the physical intimacy, I think we do often think in with your partner that it has to be, it has to be sex, but it doesn't always have to be a particularly if that's gone out the window, and it's been out the window for a long time. To go back to just saying, Let's just sit on the couch and hold hands while we scroll, right? You know, or, or, you know, like, or just the skin to skin contact or Hey, will you scratch my back tonight and, and then you take turns. So starting small reintroducing that into your relationship is can be really significant and just reminding each other that a it feels good. And then also you remind yourself that you're there for each other not just, you know, emotionally but physically. And sometimes those smaller physical, intimate intimacy moments can lead to one partner feeling more connected emotionally, which then may lead to the next step physically, if that makes sense, right? Sometimes, stereotypically, women want to feel connected emotionally before having sex or being physical. Sure. But then for the opposite, as you were saying, you know, the stereotype of my

Scott Benner 47:43
mom was watching I think that's the point. Yeah.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 47:48
So Oh, my gosh, yeah, that one made me blush. So the, then obviously, in those stereotypes of times, there is truth. But I think starting small, I think just like with anything with self care, with exercise with doing something, we think, Well, I gotta I gotta go run for an hour, even though I haven't walked for 10 minutes. And we got to start having sex again, even though we haven't held hands or kissed or hugged in weeks or months. Yeah, so just kind of going back. And like, as if you were dating, so I mean, I don't know. It's old school, like starting over slowly.

Scott Benner 48:26
Kissing is so much fun. But it does feel like a thing you do when you're younger. That wanes as you get older, which doesn't make any sense because it's free and easy. And people like it. So it's, I listen, I can give my perspective, I can say that when intimacy leaves, it feels like rejection. And when you're trying so hard in other aspects of your life, it's even harder because you're like, I'm a good person. I am a good parent. I'm here. I'm not high. I'm not drunk. I'm not gone. I'm not cheating. And I'm still not the right thing for this decision. That's hard. That's difficult. So where I get where women can feel the way they feel, like you said, generally speaking, I think I spoken to a lot of guys privately. That's how guys feel. They don't say it. And I don't think women expect that. Right. But it feels very much. Like you feel like a little kid and somebody told you they're not interested in you. Like that's, that's how it feels. So I don't think most women would look across the room with her husband and think he feels rejected. I think they might think well, he wants to get laid and I'm not up for it. Now he's pouting, but that's not how it feels. So

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:39
yes, yes. And how amazing. I know this would be hard. It can be challenging to then articulate that right to your partner. Oh, because

Scott Benner 49:50
what so it's good to really like to have sex, whatever,

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 49:53
whether you're the you know, whatever gender you are experiencing now Right, because then guess what, what does that do that then bridges the emotional connection and intimacy, to be able to say how you're feeling in the moment, which is hard, whatever

Scott Benner 50:09
I could, couldn't it also, if I just expressed how I feel then make my bike my partner feel like, Oh, I'm letting him down. And then that's worse. And then we spiral to like, there's, everyone's got to like, I don't know, like, I don't know, I don't know how to like, obviously, these are things that have been talked about for eons. But you know, between people, this is not like a new story. Obviously, I hear women in their 50s who are getting divorced, talked about, I can't wait to meet a man who and then they list all the things that they that their husband, they feel isn't. And you hear guys say I, you know, that are divorced, like I can't wait, I'm gonna meet a younger girl who's more interested in being intimate. Like, it's just, it's like, I mean, this is not a new story. But if you're trying to keep your life together, and you're trying to raise a child with diabetes, and all this stuff is happening, I'm just gonna come out and say, if you just bang once in a while, things will be better.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 51:04
That's your that's your pro tip.

Scott Benner 51:06
I don't think anybody needs to be in love for 10 good minutes to make everything a little better for everybody. So as we're all trying equally, you understand I'm saying can't be selfish. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but you go ahead and pull 1000 Guys, a bedsheet, I know what answers you're gonna get. You want me to smile more? I know how to make that happen. But then, but that's difficult to get such a simple thing. And it is accurate. I'm gonna just go out on a limb here and tell you it's a pretty accurate statement. I don't know that, that generally speaking, women have like a simple thing that could accurately elevate their moods so easily. Like, seriously, if my wife and I had sex now, and then she asked for an inground pool three hours from now, I guarantee I'd be like, I don't know why we shouldn't get a pool. That sounds like a terrific idea. I've been arguing against the pool for 20 years, she just didn't know how to ask for it. But it's not that I'm in charge. And she's not. But I'm not joking. Like, I swear to you a tiny bit of intimacy right now. There's literally nothing that would ruin the rest of my day. I would be if I had a car accident, and they were pulling me out and I was gonna be okay. And the guy's like, how's it gone? I had sex or today, everything's fine. We can buy a new car. Don't know, I'm trying to make a point, you guys got to take care of yourselves. I think this is a big part of it. I don't think anybody's talking about it. So, you know, your thoughts will probably be more professional.

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 52:35
No, I think but even as you're listening to this, if you're feeling like, you know, gosh, this is us. This is our, you know, our marriage, our relationship. And sometimes it feels more complicated than just let's just go have sex, and it will fix everything. Sometimes it as simple as that. And sometimes it's really complicated. So then maybe your if you even if you feel like, gosh, I don't even want to hold hands with this person. I don't want to kiss I don't want to hug then I would look at okay, is it? What are the deeper issues going on? It's been a pattern, all those things? Yeah,

Scott Benner 53:08
of course. I mean, if you're having some visceral hate of another person, I'm not saying you should just swallow that and go have sex. Like a regular, reasonably, like common situation where you're, you know, you'll love each other and you just these things have happened and you've drifted away? Like I don't, you know, I don't know like it. It's, I mean, at the very least it's free and it's worth a shot. Not like you gotta buy a pool. You know what I mean? You gotta get a fence. If you get an inground pool, you have to get a fence. You gotta get a pool ruined your yard for two years. These are the reasons I'm against it. They're very expensive. That's the other idea. Yes, anyway, I love our conversations. And yet at the end of every one of them, I'm like, I don't know if any This is fixable. So what's the so when there is no real like, light switch answer? What is the answer to waking up tomorrow? And it all just feeling like it's worthwhile and, and a good experience for you? What do you think about that? Like, what what is your mantra? What keeps you like marching forward?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 54:15
Gosh, I think having being present in the day, you know, kind of having this having hope and trust that I am good enough. And I'm going to do the best I can today. I think yes, we have future goals. We have future worries. When we get caught up and stuck and all of that. It's hard to then come back to just being present. Right? And so trusting that you are like as a parent, I'm thinking about myself as a parent and then also as a type one. I'm gonna take it one day at a time I'm gonna do the best I can. I'm gonna ask for forgiveness but I make mistakes for my towards myself and towards others because I am going I make mistakes all the time. Yeah, I think there's this element to of you know, balancing chronic illness is it's real, it's serious diabetes is really serious. And weighing holding that, but also holding that, like, it hasn't brought me down. So I'm gonna, I'm going to take it seriously, I'm going to do the best I can. And I'm not going to live in that space. So you know, going back to that scale, right? That, yes, it's not going to stop me from everything, I'm going to do all the things I want to do, and I need to really take it seriously. And when one of those things gets off balance, then that's when emotionally you start to spiral a little bit. Yeah.

Scott Benner 55:40
So for me, I grew up like not drinking or getting high. So I don't have a I'm not like a thrill seeker to begin, I do drive a little fast for dopamine, if I'm being honest. But but, you know, what is that thing like that makes you like, say, this was a good day. And I was exhilarated enough to want to go do it again, like that kind of thing. For me, it's helping people, like, whether they're people in my life, or like, you guys, or anybody I meet along the way, I get a little charge out of people doing well. And I like facilitating that. Like, like, on some level, right? And so, but there are plenty of people whose lives don't like, lend to those things. And they are thinking of, like, I just got to get through this day and get a drink, because that's where I'm gonna get my zip from, or I'm gonna get high. And that's where I'm gonna get my my thing from, you know, I know that. I mean, listen, it's a, it's a human can. It's part of the human condition, but you need to find something that like, jolt you up a little bit. You know, what I mean? makes you happy to like to be doing what you're doing. And that can be difficult to find that thing I've shared on here before people asked me, What are you gonna do after you retire? i It's a, it's a sad question. To me. I don't I'm like, Oh, God, like, I don't know. Like, I'm pretty good at this. Can I keep doing this? You know, and they're like, Well, what about for yourself? And who? I don't know, you know, like, that's, that's the thing that I think if we could all answer that question, it would be, it would be valuable for us. And it would help your self care, and it would help your parenting and it would help diabetes, and it would help everything if you knew what it was that made you happy. Anyway, good luck figuring that?

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 57:22
Yes. Well, I think yeah, but like having that sense of purpose calling in life, right? And how is that need being met? And is it do you have a faith or spirituality that is grounding you? Do you feel like you're? Yeah, you're just grinding it out day to day. And that's totally understandable, particularly in the newer stages, right? You're just like certain survival mode, and reminding yourself that that will, that survival mode will end?

Scott Benner 57:52
So not being a particularly religious person? And by that, I mean, I'm not a religious person. Is that one of the things that people use religion for? Like, I guess so. Right. Like, I never thought about that. But it purpose? Like, like a reason why. Yes, yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. That's interesting. I know, that seems very obvious. And now that I think about it, it is really obvious. I just never really considered that before because it's never been a part of, it's ever been a part of how I've motivated myself. I guess. It's interesting. Okay. Well, I appreciate you very much, obviously doing this and

Erika Forsyth, MFT, LMFT 58:30
I'll talk to you guys next time. Thank you. Bye.

Scott Benner 58:43
I hope you're enjoying the parenting series. If you are please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. Thanks so much to Erica Erica forsyth.com. And of course to us med for sponsoring this episode. Us med.com/juice box head over there right now. Get all your supplies from us med let them just send them to your door. They'll just show up out front. It'd be like Oh, insulin pumps. Yep. And that's it. So it's amazing. Us med.com/juicebox Check out the diabetes Pro Tip series between Episode 1001 1026. Make your management easier. Get your agency's your time and range and your health where you want them with the diabetes Pro Tip series from the Juicebox Podcast. And don't forget about the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes over 43,000 members. There's a conversation happening right now, that would interest you. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.