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Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1051 of the Juicebox Podcast.

On today's show I'll be speaking with Karis and adult living with type one diabetes who was diagnosed just after getting COVID. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan. Were becoming bold with insulin. If you'd like to save 40% off of your sheets, your towels and your comfortable clothing. Do that at cozy earth.com with the offer code juice box at checkout, you can get your diabetes supplies the same way we do it us med you can get your dex coms with my link you're on the pods with my link, you can get G voc hypo pen with my link. You can also learn more about touched by type one save 10% off your first month of therapy with better health and so much more when you use Juicebox Podcast links. Those links are in the show notes of your podcast player audio app, and at juicebox podcast.com. The diabetes Pro Tip series has been remastered it sounds fantastic. And it's right now in your audio players between Episode 1001 1026 They are not to be missed. I promise you, they will change the way you think about diabetes.

This episode of The Juicebox Podcast is sponsored by touched by type one touched by type one.org. And find them on Facebook and Instagram. It's not too late to get tickets for the upcoming live show dancing for diabetes. Get your tickets now at touched by type one.org. This episode of the podcast is also sponsored by ag one drink ag one.com/juice box. When you get started with ag one with my link. You'll also get five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D with your first order at drink ag one.com/juicebox.

Charis 2:12
Hello, my name is Karis. And I wanted to talk to you about the link between COVID and diabetes and have a background in let's see, I started out in biotech. So I have a degree in microbiology. And it gets even earlier than that became an RN for a hot minute and worked in neonatal intensive care. So I think a bond with like parents on your facebook group because of that, just because I've like seen parents grieving a ton. And yeah, that was intense and growing and getting a master's in public health and epidemiology and ended up working at the CDC and Centers for Medicare and Department of Defense and all that fancy stuff. No, I'm like,

Scott Benner 3:03
wait, hold on cash. You just you've had three lives and you're not I don't even think you've had three legs. Yeah. How old? Are you?

Charis 3:10

48. Okay,

Scott Benner 3:11
you've done a lot. So let's go slow. It sounds like there's a bio degree as an undergrad. Right? Micro.

Charis 3:20
Right. And then I did biotech. So I did like you worked in the industry. worked in the industry. Yeah. I actually moved to South San Francisco, which was like the biotech hub at the time. Yeah.

Scott Benner 3:32
I remember when my wife got a job offer out there.

Charis 3:36
And yeah, that's like, like you've really made it well, like we were

Scott Benner 3:40
like nothing. The housing market kept us right where we were we're like no, thank you

Charis 3:47
really weird roommates.

Scott Benner 3:52
We were gonna move from a house to a cardboard box and somehow double our income and I was like, no waste. So we stayed here. Okay, so biotech, then somewhere nursing for

Charis 4:04
biotech, I was doing like legal cancer research. And I actually somehow by the luck of the draw got two patents out of it, and like a bunch of papers on the stuff so like, it was weird because it's like people are like, Oh my god, yeah. That was like a lifetime ago I forgot about

Scott Benner 4:23
nothing. Like nothing. Yeah, it

Charis 4:27
made it just these two clinical trials and then bumped out but that's actually really no, that's except the grand scheme of things. You know, most things fail

Scott Benner 4:36
so it's exceptional just doesn't get you a Lamborghini. That's what you're saying.

Charis 4:39
Right? It doesn't know you you the tradition is you get a $1 bill.

Scott Benner 4:46
Well, what I love lovely, thanks for your time, but you're being paid to work at the company. So that's good. So

Charis 4:54
like great memories. You have type When I do not associate myself with a lot of at all because it was completely fulminant. And so, like when I went, when I was first diagnosed, I went on all the Facebook groups, and I'm like, these people are talking about just restricting carbs and living their happy life. And I'm like, No.

Scott Benner 5:22
It wasn't working for you like that, like, no. How old were you?

Charis 5:29
It was a year

Scott Benner 5:30
and a half ago. Oh, really? Just that short of time. Okay,

Charis 5:33
that short of a time. It was a Yeah, that's a crazy story. So do you want to get to that?

Scott Benner 5:39
I asked you about I want to hear about your diagnosis. And yeah, forward from there.

Charis 5:45
Yeah. So after I changed careers a bunch and ended up, you know, working in like data science with healthcare stuff. I got COVID in March of 2020. And so that was the original strain. And have you ever had COVID? Because

Scott Benner 6:07
you got the og COVID. I just got I got the OG Yeah, I just gotta go. Oh, my friend. Yeah. Oh, did you? You got it twice. Okay, I just got for the first time. We just got COVID.

Charis 6:22
Because you're like, do you all the, you know, shots and everything but my immune systems wonky? And doesn't really, you know, we got,

Scott Benner 6:32
we got what I'm calling the Paris COVID. I don't know if that's a real thing or not. But my after, you know, I mean, gosh, when when was when was it? It was February, March 2020. Right. When everybody was sort of like, February, it was like you guys here, the people in China are sick. Like it was like that. And then, and then suddenly, we were in Florida, for my son's baseball tournament for his sophomore year. And so it was the beginning of the collegiate baseball season, we were in Florida for like a 10 game series. And the news was popping, but we weren't living a real life. We were like, in a hotel than on a baseball field, into a restaurant and a bar and then a hotel and like back and forth, like it went like that. But like halfway through the time, people my wife was like, this is getting serious. And yeah, and she and Arden flew home, they were gonna go home earlier than I was gonna stay the whole week. Because I don't have a real job. I can just move my stuff out if I want to where my wife was, like, if I don't come to work, they're gonna fire me. So. So they went home. I stayed a couple more days. My son got sick while we were there, but not with COVID. He got like a hit like a bronchial thing in his chest. And he had to he couldn't play the last couple of games. And everyone looked at him. Like he was like Frankenstein's monster, like, Oh, totally. Oh, my God, this easy. As everybody starts paying attention in the news stories are picking up and he's, like, sick. And they're like, that kid is patient zero, like so he, it was hard. You know, meanwhile, he didn't have COVID, which was anyway just was bad timing. Right? So we get home. And it's funny. It's funny that we're talking about this today. Because I'll tell you why. Because we get home. And we're lucky enough that my job exists in the house anyway. Right? The kids kids went into that thing where they went to school from home, which was not good. As far as how well it worked. And my wife was able to work from home. But now it's, I mean, is it almost three years later, right? It's December. Now. It were a couple of months shy of three years since then. And I was just downstairs half an hour ago ranting to my family. I'm like, You need to go back to the office because my wife still working from home. And I was like, no, no, no. Beyond that, like, no one has a schedule. Like, right, like, it's just like, everybody, like I can do my job whenever. So last night, at one o'clock in the morning, I was editing a podcast, because I had to go pick something up in the afternoon. I was like, well, I'll go do that instead. But time has lost meaning in Oh, yeah. And it's thrown everyone sleep schedule off. Yeah, totally. Yes. The problem is that no, and then like, good. Oh, go ahead, man.

Charis 9:29
Learning to interact with people you like if you stay at home a lot. Go to the grocery store. And you're like, I'm going to talk this person 00 My

Scott Benner 9:40
God, you look like you're not crazy. Do you want to hear about what I saw today on television? You're like, Well, I mean, I'm lucky I get to keep talking to people. But what I'm telling you the biggest problem that's come from all this is that we are not rising and falling with the sun anymore, and that somebody doesn't have time to be somewhere and a time to be somewhere again, like that's incredibly important. A schedule. Anyway, I was downstairs, I was like, everyone's going to bed at this time you're getting up at this time. I don't care if you don't have anything to do, like, like, you know, like, because my son's looking for work. So he can do that. Right. And my daughter's home for a break. So and I said to her, I was like, think about it, you were just a college for 10 weeks. And you felt great. And you were doing great. And now you're like, all beat up and everything I was like, because you're staying up till three in the morning talking to your friends, and then sleep until one o'clock in the afternoon or something. I was like, it's it's messing you up. It's like everyone's going to sleep when the sun goes down. We're gonna be farmers, dammit. So you gotta

Charis 10:40
you gotta be a farmer mentality. You just have to, are you going to

Scott Benner 10:44
curse? I'm not kidding. I'm like, I spent the a couple minutes before I go home with you are looking for sleep experts that have on the podcast to talk to, like I really, oh, I've

Charis 10:53
read a book. There's like a guy that has the best book ever. And it's, oh my god, like 500 pages, but it's really good. I'll send it to you. When I remember his name. Thank you have to look it up. But it's really great. I mean, it's like, having a schedule and you know, really sticking with it, not changing it on the weekends. We're guilty of that. On the weekends, and then I mess it all up.

Scott Benner 11:19
Listen, I imagine like it's okay for once in a while for that to happen. But like, it's just, it can't be good. And I think it's common sense. I don't think I need a sleep expert. I think I just said it, like go to sleep at 1011 o'clock and wake up at seven or eight o'clock in the morning. And let's go. I dissolve a scoop of ag one into a cold glass of water every morning and drink it down. And here's why. Ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement. It provides nutrition replenishment, gut optimization, stress management, and immune support to my body. And unlike plans that include multiple vitamins and gummies, and powders, this is all just in one convenient scoop. One convenient scoop of bio available ingredients that my ag one is tested for over 950 contaminants. And it's NSF Certified for Sport recommended by doctors like neuroscientist Andrew Huberman. And people who aren't neuroscientists like me, when you use my link, drink ag one.com/juice box, you get five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D with your first order. So if you're tired of supplementing your energy with caffeine, or tired of standing in that I'll walk in at all those powders wondering which one of these is right. You can do what I did. And drink a G one. Drink ag one.com/juice box links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com. mean so

Charis 12:45
anyway, yeah, you don't actually set your iPhone should remind you to do that. I do that. It's like you need to go to bed. You need to start winding down and I'm like no, not gonna let you tell me what to do. Oh, wait actually told me to do that.

Scott Benner 13:02
winding down. Shut up. Listen, I don't think it's not that hard. We've all lost the basics here. start winding down used to be let's have sex and go to sleep.

Charis 13:16
Yeah, and after COVID It's just like, anyway,

Scott Benner 13:21
back to COVID. So we were all like, look at us. We haven't. We've never had we've never had COVID Right. And you know, my wife, my wife has a business thing come up. And she's like, you know, I have to go to France for a week and we were like, Alright, we'll see you. And you know, she comes home Arden still at school. So it's just cold i in the house. She comes home. She had a great time, got worked on met some met some people that she's been working with for years. She's never met because of COVID which is very nice. A couple three days later, she's home. She's like, I don't feel good. And we were allowed. My son and I were like, Yo, get away like, you know,

Charis 13:57
your Frankenstein's monster?

Scott Benner 13:59
Yeah, now you're the monster. We shoved her right upstairs into the bedroom. And she had COVID and we stayed away from her. And we were all like, for her but

Charis 14:09
like, the rest of you? Totally what you have to do, she was gonna

Scott Benner 14:13
die to keep us sick. Say we were fine with that. Like, we were like, That's it. You're done. We took care of like sliding food under the door, you know, stuff like that. And like a prisoner. Yeah. And she wasn't doing well. So she called the doctor eventually. And they gave her this drug. And they're like, Oh, this is great. Knocks it right out. I forgot what it was called. Everyone knows. There you go. I'm telling you, like, I don't know how long it was afterwards day or two. She's like, I feel like a million bucks. And I was like, Yeah, I was like, do not come out of that room. And no one cares, stay in there. But then she she tested negative for so many days in a row that it started seeming silly to like use the tests and we're like, alright, you can come back out now. And like to days later, She's downstairs working around all of us. And she goes, I don't feel good again. Oh, no, she got the rebound. Yes, it didn't just rebound to her. He got all of us because we were around.

Charis 15:13
That's horrible. I needed to all that work. Oh, my God.

Scott Benner 15:18
Listen didn't kill me, obviously. So I'm good. But it was unpleasant. For a long time, I would tell you that. Because the three of us got sick at once. We were sick for two solid months. Because the COVID turned into bronchitis.

Charis 15:34
Exactly. You know, what attacks everything in your body like everything and messes everything. It's like, I don't even know what's gonna happen long term to the, like, burden on the health care system for all the things that it's done, you know, like,

Scott Benner 15:52
No, I mean, it was really about that. I never took COVID not seriously, I always took it as seriously as I thought I as warranted. And we were careful and did things and separated. We did everything that you know, people said to do. And there were also times during the summer like my son played baseball, like through COVID. But out, but I took seriously the idea that people were like, there's doesn't seem to be any transmission outdoors. So we were outdoors, we still all sort of stayed away from each other. The boys, of course, were in a dugout, but even they kind of spread out a little bit. And no lie like in the year 2020. Co played a full season in the summer. In a collegiate Wow. And one kid, there was like 20 teams, one kid Guy Code. And that was amazing. And then it never got through anybody. But then once it got cold, we went back inside. We were of course, like we kind of went anyway, I treated it seriously. I took it seriously. And three years later when everybody's like got nothing now like getting a cold. I'm like, yeah, not in France, apparently. The Paris COVID was nasty. So anyway, the French you got but you got OG right away. COVID, which must have been scary as hell, right?

Charis 17:07
I got og COVID. And here's the crazy thing. So I need like, with my background, that's why I told my background. It's not to show off. It's just to be like, Okay, this is why it freaked me out so bad. Because let's see, in December of 2019, my son was like, you know, he Doom scrolls a lot. Okay, like, with this COVID thing, it's gonna be real bad. And I'm like, No, I used to work at the CDC. Totally. We got this. We got this story. And then like a month later, it was like they all started dispersing out of China and like, oh, global travel. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And I will not call it the Chinese flu that makes me so mad. Or the China virus. You know, it could have happened anywhere. Yeah. And it just so happened to be there. You know? Incidentally, no, 100% Coincidentally, like, yeah, so that's my little side thing with that. I'm sorry, what were you gonna say?

Scott Benner 18:10
No, just it might because of what my wife does for a living. She, she had been aware of it for a while. And she's like, I'm telling you like, there's a virus in China. And it's like, it's good. My wife was the first person to tell me before I heard it on the news, or anything else. She said to me and told me yeah, she told me about it. She told me what it was. And she said a year. She said at some point, she didn't say in a year. She said at some point, everyone on the planet is going to have had this virus. Yeah, that I was like, You're out of your mind. And she goes, No, this is what's gonna happen. I was like, okay,

Charis 18:44
yeah, it took me like till probably February of 2020. to, like, accept that. Because when I was working at the CDC, Ebola came out, and so I get to hear all that craziness. And, you know, and because of that, how well they handled Ebola. I was like, Oh, it'll totally be okay. It's gonna last a really long time and affect a lot of people but like, there's a whole structure in place for this, like, people like me are trained for us, we trained our whole lives for this. They didn't end up using people like me to help with it, but that's another story. So in March, I started having symptoms and it was so weird because, you know, had to be my own nurse and then I telehealth my doctor and I was like, I think I have COVID but then they were like, we're not we don't have a test you know, it's not reliable yet. And that was when they like recalled the test. And it's like, you probably have it based on your symptoms, you know, and you also have Crohn's disease so like just watch it you know, just stay at home, isolate all that and then like the master of quarantine, so I did the you know, stay in my bedroom and have food shipped on Today when I talked to my doctor, it was the craziest thing, because he's like, Harris, I don't know really much about COVID, I'm just gonna be honest, this is why I love my doctor, he's like, No, my doctor for 13 years. And he's like, you actually know more about this than me, I'm just gonna be honest with you. So what you need to do is you need to call your friends, and you need to find out what this is. And I know that you have that like, you know, investigative nature about you where you can figure this out, and then you call me and he told me what I should do. Like, because like, all the drugs right now, they're not working. And you know, we're doing things that aren't working. And so this is back, you know, in the very beginning, and I ended up contacting my friends at CDC, and I'm like, I'm positive, and they're like, Oh, shit. And I'm like, Why do you say? And then I'm, like, telling them all my symptoms, and then they're like, oh, keep going, we're writing this down, you know, and then they're like, talking till the doctors. And so I had like, my own

Scott Benner 21:16
team, you had a COVID Geek Squad.

Charis 21:20
Geek Squad. Yeah, and I could just call and be like, my arms have all these, like, purple spots on it, you know, which is like, really bad.

Scott Benner 21:31
Did you? I mean, being that early on, and, and having connections to people who you would think would have the highest level of information available? And they're telling you like, I don't know, you tell me what's happening. Like, that's not comforting, I imagined,

Charis 21:46
comforting, ya know, and then and then to be a nurse and know what the symptoms are, and be like, I can't feel my feet, like, you know, or like, my brain is not working, right. Like, this is not a normal virus like this is affecting my central nervous system. And that was before they said, you know, across, couldn't cross the blood brain barrier and all that, you know, like, we had no idea, but I was just telling them, like, what my symptoms were because I'm like, hey, you know, like, I can tell you what it's like. So I felt like a science experiment. It was funny. I don't know. It's just weird. And I got better and didn't get anybody else sick, which is great. I'm so proud of myself for that.

Scott Benner 22:29
Did they give you did it give you anything back then? Or was it just like hydrate rest? Stay away from people,

Charis 22:36
hydrate, rest? lock yourself up? You cannot come to the ER, do you not like, it was just total lockdown. Like you are on your own? You can telehealth your doctor, that's the best you can do? And I was like, yeah.

Scott Benner 22:52
No, I'm like, yeah, like, it's not fun to be the first person that have something like, like, with no answers, even by the way, you know how often we go to the doctor, and the doctor gives you an answer. And you leave and you're like, Oh, this is good. I feel like the guy with the lady and the coach told me the thing. And you're walking away and the doctor. Yeah, and the doctor is like, I don't know if that's right or not. So it's still just people. And that's

Charis 23:15
my relationship with my doctor. I mean, we have a very funny relationship, like, we joke all the time. It's, like, just awesome. He's been my biggest advocate. So yeah, and then I found out like, the whole infrastructure was falling apart, which I knew would happen anyways, because I studied abroad, in like, Barbados, and Cuba, studied their health care system and got to compare it to ours. And it was just fascinating, like, how much money we spend, and help our outcomes are and you can fact check this, you know, and look and see, like, we're 27 or something in the world by the WHO metrics, you know, like, our maternal mortality rate is horrible, you know, infant mortality rate, horrible. There's a thing that where they call it, you know, it's not health care at sick care. So, yeah, I mean, that's disheartening. But, you know, we also have incredible technology that can keep people alive for like, ever. I swear.

Scott Benner 24:21
You know, we live in a we live in a fairly quiet time in history. Well, we did. Right. So yeah, great. Your your post World War Two intil. I mean, honestly, maybe. I mean, I guess you could argue this, but 911 Maybe in that.

Charis 24:39
It was I was gonna say,

Scott Benner 24:41
post World War I was just like, Yeah, well, post world war two to 911. Everyone in America who's you know, hasn't has a job of any kind is living a life better than most people have ever lived on the planet. And even our poor you know, even our poor people are living sometimes the conditions better than what you find in other places in the world. And so, yeah, so when the 50s turn into the 60s, I mean, think about it when you think about the 50s, or like, sock hops and this kind of thing and the 60s, or like peace and love in the 70s, or like, some drugs go with this and love and,

Charis 25:17
like crazy fashion. And

Scott Benner 25:20
it's the worst thing that happened to the 80s a plane got hijacked, and, you know, oil prices went up a little bit, right. That's it. And then I mean, we started picking wars again, because we're like, this is boring, we should. You know, let's figure out what the Falkland Islands are and shoot at them, like, like you like you got like. And then the 90s are, you know, its prosperity, and everybody's making money and blah, blah, blah. And then 911 happens. So there's generations of people who think that that's what the world is fashion and music and happy and like, blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, 911 smacks you in the face and you go, Oh, we are all bouncing on the head of a pin here. I don't know how we kept going like this for so long. And then then COVID happens and you realize that most of society is smoke and mirrors. And it's

Charis 26:16
so great. It's like, and it's essential, and illusion.

Scott Benner 26:20
It's easy to pretend that you know what you're doing when there's nothing to do. And then suddenly, you get tasked with something and you find out that people, you know, like, Listen, how many people do you think you work with? Who quietly in their car in the morning before they get out and come into the office think I don't know what I'm doing? Someone's gonna figure out that I don't know what I'm doing. Go in, like,

Charis 26:42
a lot had impostor syndrome, right? Like, well, it's my self. Totally Yeah, for a long time.

Scott Benner 26:49
But it's also not just a syndrome, it's that you're living in a comfortable time. Like, I mean, listening to it. Like, like, I guess I could go to ROTC as a high school student and think like, I know what to do. But if you then put me in a time machine and drop me in Vietnam, in the middle of the war, you might find out I'm not the fighting machine. You thought I was like you don't even really, like long here until until people get tested. You don't know really what they have. And I think we went a lot of generations where people were not really tested to the level that history has sometimes tested us, too. And now here we are. Oh, yeah. So anyway, that's

Charis 27:28
just like, pushed to the max. I think so. I'm surprised how well we've done actually. Because I'm an optimist.

Scott Benner 27:39
Yeah, I agree with you, too. But I'm saying that in that moment, when you were talking about, everyone was like, Oh, this isn't like, This isn't me playing a video game like this is happening? You know? Yeah. Like,

Charis 27:51
this is real. Like, it's, it's about ready to go down. Exactly. Well, and then I was working, you know, in the three letter companies, agencies. And so like, I knew what programs were getting shut down and what weren't. And I'm like, Oh, this isn't gonna work. If they shut down, say you, Sam read, for example, that's like the military version of the CDC. So that got shut down. It's now partly back up, but they're the ones that are supposed to do all the stuff in the movies where, you know, like, they come in with the National Guard. And, you know, where the Biohazard suit and all that that's not the CDC, that's you, Sam read, okay, the pandemic response team got shut down. It's no backup. But all those things, the whole infrastructure was shut down. And I'm not going to even get into politics and why. But that's what happened. And it just made the whole entire system crumble. So how it's supposed to work is the CDC is a government agency, they have to get invited into the states, they cannot just come storming in. So it's supposed to start at the county level, and then go up to the state level. And then the state goes, oh, let's call them the experts from the CDC and figure out what do we do? That didn't happen?

Scott Benner 29:11
Does it not happen? Because people don't know that it's supposed to happen? Like, it's somebody people

Charis 29:16
people knew? Absolutely, uh, specifically, this is like, I think everybody was just like in shock. And maybe there are some politics. Who knows? I don't know. I think it's just like, so overwhelming. People were like, what do we do? And like all of us epidemiologist was like, dude, talk to me. And like, I talked to a recruiting agent. And she said there was a hiring freeze for epidemiology. Which was like, I don't know, it's just, it was just like, so many series of choices that were made and it's not one person's fault. You know, it's just collectively as a society. We made some decisions that totally crumbled our or help infrastructure. And, you know, I could see the holes or the cracks on the system before. And when I talk about it, people are like, You're crazy, like, Okay. And then it happened. And they're like, how is this gonna last? Oh my God, what do you know? Maybe?

Scott Benner 30:20
Well, that was really my that was kind of my bigger point about my my long story that I told, which is that, you know, there's a running back on your team. And he's the guy, right? He's the one who gets hurt, then there's a second guy, and he gets hurt. Now suddenly, you're looking at the kid you didn't even want to have be on the team. He hasn't been tested. And now you're telling him you're starting. And I think we were in that situation like things just went along so easily for so even like some of the other big health crisis in the world, you know, that you go back over my wife was thrown at me the other day, right? I know, none of them are popping into my head. But a lot of them were offshore. Like they weren't happening here. And they were dying out over there. And you don't think of it that way?

Charis 31:04
SARS, that's the one right? Right. You don't

Scott Benner 31:07
like to think of you don't like to think that an invisible thing can just appear and start killing people. And the way that it really sometimes stops is it just kills all the people it's going to and then it kind of it then it's gone. It burns itself out. When you hear burns itself out. Your mind doesn't cognitively think of burning itself out as killing all the people that can before it dies. And like you know, like because that right, sort of what's happening.

Charis 31:34
And it's just mind boggling to think that this tiny, tiny little thing, like nanometers big can kill hundreds of millions of people. Like, that just blows my mind. And, you know, I don't want to rag on the US healthcare system at all, you know, because it happened all over the world, like everybody, like every country was like, whoa, what do we do? Yeah, sure, you know, I mean, so that was kind of a global phenomenon. But yeah, it was just weird to navigate it as a patient, you know, and then to be a patient that's also a nurse in the epidemiologists and scientists, because I'm weird. Like, I knew too much, you know, and it was really scary.

Scott Benner 32:17
I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson recently. And I think it was him somewhere. And he said something like, if you took a, like, a cross section of your colon, I think this is what he said, please don't hold me to any of the salient details of this. But somewhere in your digestive tract, he's like, if you just biopsied this tiny little bit, there would be more bacteria in there. I think he said, then all the people who've ever lived on the planet combined, like so.

Charis 32:45
No, I've heard them say that. Yeah. And then Shane, well, and then, like, you're not you your microbiome.

Scott Benner 32:52
Yeah. So you are basically a planet for other living things. Yeah. And, like, mess with your brain. And then you start doing the pullout, like, you think of that as the micro look, and then you start pulling out, and you realize, right, there's, there's things living on your skin that are eating like your dead skin and stuff like that. And, and yeah, then you pull back again, and you pull back again, I think the point he made was that we almost don't have the ability to pull back far enough to see our place. But then you don't mean that you're a bug on this planet. And there are bugs, you and in this planet might be a, you know, like, and he started talking about that whole big idea that that, you know, Earth could just be an atom inside of like, a bigger structure. And, and yes, technically is like, if you think about space. And so yeah, and so I started thinking about, like, somewhere inside of me, there's blood, like pooling and flowing, right? And there's, there's, there's an atom in there, if something like there's there's this, there's a cell and, and that cell can't see other cells, it's too far away from them. And even though in my measurement, that distance might be a centimeter, how far is the measurement between Earth and the Moon? If we are just floating in the blood flow of something else? And I started thinking about I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna stop totally Cartesian philosophy. Yeah, and I'm just like, that's enough of this. Right? NEIL DeGRASSE like, and

Charis 34:23
I just went down there.

Scott Benner 34:26
Like seriously, like, who where does that name come from? But that's no big deal. So so when you think about that, and then you apply that idea to like, like catastrophic illness, the you care about you? Right? I care about me my kids care about me if I die, it'll be a struggle to other people. But then you know, you get outside of my house you go to two houses down. They're not going to their life's not gonna change if I die. And I know that because two houses down some guy died. I've never met before and my life didn't change. And and so It's hard to remember that the virus doesn't know that the virus doesn't discriminate. Yeah, it's like, exactly. So anyway, yeah, scary is my point.

Charis 35:11
It's friggin scary. And I do think that people would notice if you died because, you know, you have a whole group of people

Scott Benner 35:18
whose, um, abandoned help, okay? Yeah, I'm a bad example. But you know what I mean?

Charis 35:28
cancer or whatever.

Scott Benner 35:29
There's a lady across the street, who, if she goes, she's gonna know. And I think her nephew lives with him. And then beyond that, like, she's probably all lived her friends circle and you get my point. My point is the virus doesn't care that people love you. And so you get into that situation where it's just in your own head. It's frightening. It's an invisible invader. You don't like Oh, it's terrible. So okay, but then it gets worse. After you have COVID What happens next?

Charis 35:59
So I just had all this weird things happened, like, had four toenails fall off. Like, I think I'm going to be an afterdark episode. Gonna tell you, kids are gonna be like, Oh,

Scott Benner 36:14
I after 800 episodes. That's one of the that's shocking things that anybody's ever said to me. Like I tightened up inside when you said I was like, Oh, God, no. All right. Okay, go ahead. Can I ask question on the same foot? Okay.

Charis 36:33
To like paint, it would look like.

Scott Benner 36:39
So you were painting the hard skin underneath of I don't know if anybody's ever lost the nail before. But it's kind of it's rocky under there. It's Rocky under there. Yeah. So you would paint that

Charis 36:49
I would paint it. That's how, like, how much I was trying to deny what was happening to me and have like a feeling of control. I guess. Because I felt out of control. I was like, I can't control this. Like, it's just happening. And there's nothing I can do about it. And so I have to just go through it. And it was just wild. Like, I didn't even take days off work because I work from home. So I was just like, Okay, if I lay in bed all day, I'm gonna get pneumonia, it's gonna get worse, and then I'm gonna get blood clots, it's gonna get worse. So the best thing I can do, is trying to stay active. Right? And by active I mean walking from my bedroom to my office. But you know, when you go to the hospital, the nurses are always like, you have to get up and walk and you're like, Dude, I just had surgery. Are you insane? And heartless. It's so you don't get pneumonia and blood clots. So yeah, I worked just kind of done at night. Would I think I did that because I needed to distract myself from like, impending doom. Yeah, that was wild. Just the symptoms. were crazy.

Scott Benner 38:00
How long? How long after this, though? Do you? Does Omicron come first? Or does diabetes come first?

Charis 38:08
So diabetes come. So it was OG and then about a year later diabetes, and then omachron, which completely wiped out honeymoon period. And you're gonna think I'm crazy. But you've had a guest before talk about this, where he felt like his pancreas had like pain and was being attacked. It felt like that I had pain, like epigastric pain is right there. And I had that when I got a micron. And then it was like, insulin needs totally changed. Here's another curveball. And I'd gotten five shots by them. But it didn't work for a micron. So that was funny.

Scott Benner 38:50
What's funny?

Charis 38:53
Oh, it's funny. So my diagnosis story is actually hilarious. So well, if you have the gallows sense of humor, which I do, you can't tell by now. Like how I cope with sad things, I guess. So I went to Well, first of all, my daughter was like, you know, competitive gymnast. And then all I could imagine was like, the girls on the balance beam, like, throwing snot at each other. So I was like, wow, that was a your work. And maybe like, I'll put masks on, you know, in between. And like, if you're not sanitizing the bar, you're not making everybody like now. It's just like we're done. Right? And that was really hard because she's really good. And so we got her into the whole equestrian lifestyle and bought her a pony. And my mom was like, Okay, we're going to take her, you know, he had to drive all over the freaking country to do the equestrian lifestyle. It's like the most expensive sport I did not know that my mom bought like a camper van so I could just drive around because it's got since bathroom and it's like a giant quarantine mobile right. So I called the van Demick life. What did you call it? Van Demmick. Life? Van. Van life

Scott Benner 40:25
I heard. I didn't quite at first I got it the second time. Okay, good.

Charis 40:30
Yeah, it's like funny. So like, every weekend, we were living out of the van, and one of her meats were in like, San Diego or something. And I live, you know, like, in the middle of the country, so, well, a little less. When I was driving back, I started getting really, really tired. And it was like, okay, you know, I always get tired, you know? That's right. And, you know, working yourself to death and all that and have Crohn's and that makes me tired and whatever. And then I ended up pulling into like a propane station to refill the propane tank. And I hit the little pile on concrete, whether they call or they pylons, you know, the little things that like protect you from cold, like cones, but they're concrete, concrete to protect, to protect the propane tank from people crashing into it. And then like, you know, blazing up. Yeah, and an awful mess, right. So I was pulling in and I scraped the right side of this beautiful camper. Right, like,

Scott Benner 41:46
that's van mageddon. So

Charis 41:52
that's really off. And in San Diego. I had one drink, just wondering. And I was slurring my words, like real bad, okay. And that's weird. Because like, I can handle a drink. I get home after like, it took forever to get home because I was like, Oh, I gotta stop and take a nap. Because that's the safest thing to do. And, you know, my kids are like, Cool. We'll just like go on a Wi Fi and entertain ourselves. You know? Thank God, I did that. And then I got home, and I'm cleaning out the van. And my mom calls me and she's she had been in San Diego with us. She called me she's like, I'm taking you to the hospital. And I'm like, it's just like, something's not right. It's just not right. I'm taking you like now and I'm like, Okay, well, I'm going to take a shower, because I know that when you go to the hospital, you go to bed for like days. And she's like, No, you're going right now. I was like, what? Like, I'm fine. I'm cleaning up the van and everything like this is how deeply in denial I was. Oh, and one more thing happened. This was funny. On the way back, I drove through Vegas. I drove past the Bellagio. The line was really, really long to turn. And I was like, oh my god, I have to go the bathroom really bad. And Oregon, the hazards on ran to the bathroom. In the

Scott Benner 43:21
wait, you just abandoned your van in front of the Bellagio and then ran into the hotel?

Charis 43:26
No, as the van has a bathroom. Oh,

Scott Benner 43:29
I don't know why that's funny. But okay.

Charis 43:33
It's funnier. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna say this, like, I didn't quite make it. So my kids are horrified. You know? And they're just like, What is wrong with you? So that was one of the things that made my mom go Ah, so anyhow, I get to the ER, and it was about two hours. And they were like, We don't know what's wrong with you. And then they finally started looking at glucose because that's just something that they do, you know. And, you know, they were like, if this is like some weird, man, we don't know what's going on. And finally, they looked at the glucose and it was like 655

Scott Benner 44:14
Was that on your radar at all? Having because you had Crohn's, Crohn's disease, autoimmune, right?

Charis 44:19
Friends is autoimmune and then I take a biological immunosuppressive drug. So I take that shot every eight weeks. And that just like shuts down your immune system, so you don't attack yourself, right. But

Scott Benner 44:34
anyway, so So, okay, so now you're laying there.

Charis 44:38
I'm like laying there in the ER and the doctor. It's just the kindest guy and he's just like, really puzzled, you know, just like, What is going on? I gotta fix this. They gave me an MRI of my brain because I had a headache. Because I had cerebral edema, which took three months to resolve. So I was kind of like Dory.

Scott Benner 45:03
So you think that's how you ran into the, the concrete barrier and like, why you were just off in general.

Charis 45:10
And I lost my vision. So weights part of the thing, but that didn't happen until the next day after it was admitted to the ICU. You lost your vision

Scott Benner 45:17
in the ICU. That could not have been fun. Okay, so yeah, that was

Charis 45:23
that was so not fun. So like, the, the ER doctor comes back, and he's like, he pulled his mask down. But you know, I had cerebral edema. So I could have made that up. Who knows? And he's like, Oh, my God, I am so sorry. You are becoming diabetic. And I don't think this is type two. And I'm just like, you know, they say the patients can only hear 5% of what doctors tell them. And it's really true because it just became want want want want want want. It's

Scott Benner 45:56
stunning, right? Like

Charis 46:00
he's like a UTI or something, you know, and I'm drinking a lot of water because it was driving through like, the desert. You know? We're not, you know. And

Scott Benner 46:11
do mom ever tell you in retrospect, what made her call you?

Charis 46:13
She had a feeling? Yeah. Just you didn't seem right. It's interesting. Yeah. It was the it was the one drink and I was like, like, super alcoholic. Sounding slurring, you know?

Scott Benner 46:28
Just shut you off that one drink.

Charis 46:31
Since one drink just so now. Okay,

Scott Benner 46:35
so how do you start managing diabetes? Like, like, are you in the hospital for long they send you right back out again?

Charis 46:43
Oh, no. So I go to the ICU. And they're like, the ICU because you know, we have to do IV, regular insulin, right? And I'm like, okay, cool. Can I walk? You're really sick. Like, my ANC was 13.80. Wow. That's impressive. But it's but what's even crazier was like, my labs when they looked at the whole, like, pH and carbon dioxide and all that. I mean, it was just extremely, like, you know, they show the normal zone of where you're supposed to be. And like, everything was out of whack. Yeah. And that's the first time that's ever happened to me. And it's sitting there looking at my phone going. Me, or is that like another patient? And they mixed up?

Scott Benner 47:37
Isn't it? Like, isn't it fascinating? I find it really just impressive. How out of whack. Everything can be and you're still alive. Like

Charis 47:48
seriously stole I just keep going. Yeah, amazing. You know? Yeah, didn't you have like a thing where you will forget which

Scott Benner 47:56
iron was so low at one point

Charis 47:58
iron, right? That's what it was. Like, he just kept

Scott Benner 48:01
going I just kept I kept going. I was like, it it affected my personality and my ability to rest sleep like I was a mess. But I could focus what I guarantee you that there are 5070 episodes of this podcast that I recorded with my iron, like my heart level, like 11. And like, oh, wow, so badly that if I stood up and then tried to bend down to the floor, I would have just kept going. But But I could pull it together for short bursts of time. And even like I did it during when I COVID I did it like you're gonna hear well, at this point. The way the podcast goes up six months ago, when somebody's listening to this. There's a handful of episodes of the podcast that you heard, you'll never know I was sick during. But I was I was sitting here like, either wrapped in a blanket or half naked because of my fever will never see that there's a whiteboard in front of me that I would sit down and I would just take with a marker and I would write focus on it. And then I just I just look at it while I was recording. And I don't think you'll I don't think you'll ever hear it but I was like devastatingly sick. So Oh yeah. If you hear the one of them I can point you to for sure. Is there's an episode I did along with the company for G voc. I bullpen? I was sweating during that, like I was kicking heroin. And oh man was rolling off of me in sheets. And I was just an i That's a good episode, because I listened back to it after I was sick.

Speaker 1 49:37
I was like, I can't believe I pulled that off. So anyway, so I take your point, but it's just it's interesting that you can see all these labs and they're all so far out of range and you're having all these problems. You know, the thing you talked about in your your brain you're you're experiencing symptoms there. And still, it's still you were cleaning out the van you know what I mean? Like

Charis 49:58
so I'm clean up the van I'm Do you want to die in a week or something in the van? Or it's gonna stink? You know, like,

Scott Benner 50:03
your agency's 13 Like, you were gonna go down eventually. Don't get me wrong, but like, it's, it's amazing that you could that any of us could. So I'm sorry. Yeah, it's

Charis 50:13
like there's the scene and medicine and I love it. Denial ain't a river in Egypt?

Scott Benner 50:21
Well, well, you know what else it makes me think of is it's gonna feel disjointed for a second. But have you ever been in the mall or out somewhere, and you see a kid who's got Down syndrome, but he's 40 years old, and his mother's like 90, and she's still taking care of him. And you think to yourself, like that woman is willing herself to stay alive for that kid? You don't I mean, currently? Absolutely. That is not an uncommon thing for parents of chronically ill children to stay alive a really long time. And there's got to be something to that. You don't I mean?

Charis 50:57
Oh, absolutely. I think it's just like you will yourself to go on, you know,

Scott Benner 51:04
yeah, I don't know how that happens, technically speaking, but it just seems true. I mean, honestly, my iron that low. That looks and doctors say things all the time. Like, I don't know how you're standing and everything. But my doctor. My doctor was a hematologist. And he's like, Dude, are you okay? Like, he's like, I'm like, I'm already he goes, You're not alright. But yet, I was still up in the middle of the night taking care of Arden during that. You mean, of course, because you have to. Yeah. So it's just I don't know, there's, people have a lot of we have a lot of feeling that we don't use sometimes. Yeah. And

Charis 51:39
I almost feel like it's if you're a good parent, or a decent parent, you come to the realization, maybe it takes a few years after your kids are born, but you go, Oh, it's not about me anymore. It's about them.

Scott Benner 51:54
You're a resource all of a sudden, does that mean? You're a resource? You become a resource? I mean, that like you're a resource? Yeah. Yeah. Like in the in the, you know, oil. Like, like sets, like, I mean, your your intellectual resources. Well, but, but basically, if you think about, you know, there's the mother, and then baby and the baby's, you know, it's sucking off of you getting what it needs while it's growing. And even though it comes out in the court, it doesn't stop really. Yeah. So I mean, this morning, you and I are recording at noon. 1125 Arden's like, would you make pancakes for me? I said, Well, I have to

Charis 52:35
thank you. The reason you're

Scott Benner 52:38
recording at noon, she goes, Yeah, I know. I said, alright, well, like, let's get downstairs and like hustle. And we'll do it together. And by the time she comes down, I'm almost finished, you know? And I'm like, and it's not it's not an apples to apples, but it is. It's that she's not lazy. Like me, she can make her own food. But she asked me

Charis 52:55
like, you're a good chef, right? Listen to enough of your podcast.

Scott Benner 53:01
I don't know about you. But what I think is like, I wonder how many more times I'll get the maker pancakes, like before she moves out or something like that. So I want to do it. But you don't think of it as you're giving of yourself? A little bit. No, they're killing. Yeah, real slow.

Charis 53:16
Real. Like really slow. Away pulling it from Yeah. And then they get older and you start to reclaim yourself. But yeah, it might just give us I don't know, man.

Scott Benner 53:29
They get away with just sit down and go. I just want to see how long I get last sit in this chair. I am very tired. I can tell you that much. Put any anyway. I got up last night out of bed for something. Somebody just left the light on in the hallway. And I got up. And as I'm getting up, I said to my wife, I was like I'm done with this. She goes well, I'm like being responsible for other people. I'm very close to being done with us. So yeah. Anyway. Okay, so

Charis 53:58
you must carry like a really heavy weight, though, because you care about your listeners. So imagine that that's like, I don't know, I guess the only thing I could compare it to is is like having been a nurse and feeling responsible for other people's health. And it's a really heavy burden to carry. Yeah, there was never like that for you.

Scott Benner 54:18
Yeah, it got bad a couple of years ago. And I recognized. I said to myself, basically like you I have to let go of this to some level where I won't be able to write making the podcast because the one thing that I am, I'm very careful to do is I read everyone's correspondence. And I respond. I respond to it. It's sometimes it takes me a couple of months, but I definitely I answer people. And every day, I go through the Facebook page, and my message is for people who are sharing their successes with me or asking questions, because that seems like that seems very important. And you read and I read everything and There are times that people like I'm looking at one now, there's a lovely woman that's been on the show before. And she wants to come back on now because she's now dealing with breast cancer on top of everything else. And she and she, she thinks she's got something to share with people, and I agree with her. But, I mean, listen, I don't have breast cancer, but I still, I still read her note about it. And it's hard to read. And then you don't mean like, oh, yeah, and that's one thing. So you think that's not bad. I also, if I scroll down one, the next note is from a guy whose brother passed away, and this happened, and he wants to share this on the podcast. And then you scroll to more, and this person has a problem, and you scroll, and it's so everybody who contacts me has, like stuff going on. And so

Charis 55:46
Oh, yeah. And it's like the worst thing in the world that's happened to them. And they're just reaching out because they're in pain, right?

Scott Benner 55:52
And then so I process it. I don't take it into the level, obviously, their burden, but I process it. And then I feel it for a little while, and you're like, oh, god, she's got breast cancer. And, you know,

Charis 56:08
oh, you're an empath. I'm an empath that's like, a blessing and a curse.

Scott Benner 56:13
But also, there was a moment where it was gonna kill me. And I was like, I have, I have to stop doing this to this degree. So I don't like yeah, I found a way to read it and understand it, but I don't. I don't, I don't know. It's like, I don't put a face to it anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Charis 56:31
I know, I've seen people like on the Facebook site, say, I want to kill myself, like, I could just take insulin. And I'm like, okay, 510 years ago, I would have reached out to that person and DM them and be like, are you okay? Do you have a plan? You know, like, these are all the things you're supposed to do as a nurse. I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna report it to Facebook, and I'm gonna be okay with that. But like I've at least, reported it so that it is taken care of, by a team that is meant to handle that. And I'm not taking on as my own responsibility to fix them. Because the truth is that you can't fix them. Yeah, you know, and you want to, and you want to say something that is soothing, and will help them. But every time you do that, you just lose a little piece of yourself. If you're not careful. There's so

Scott Benner 57:24
there's two different ways to think about it too, which is interesting, which is you can't spend there. There's an never ending supply of people who are in that person's situation, right? Yep. So you never ended, right? You can't make it your burden to find all of them and to respond to all of them. Because once you respond, by the way, you're involved now. Oh, yeah, you're like, Yeah, you have no idea how many people you've heard on this podcast, who stay in contact with me, like so. Like, I know how people are doing. And even in little ways, the one that I always think of as an example, is in one of the afterdark, Jonathan, who was a young guy with bipolar. And if he's listening, I hope he's okay. But he'll message me. Yeah, he'll message me like every six months. And it just says something like, Hey, I'm doing well. But if I respond, but if I respond to him, he won't respond back. And now, or, but that and that's hard. But listen, again, I'm not I'm not comparing his situation with mine. But that's hard for me. And then, and he's one of many people, and so I don't want them to stop. But I also had to find a way to go okay, well, I hope Jonathan's okay, but I can't sit here and worry about him. Anyway, yeah. So I

Charis 58:45
didn't get in like a life coach for how to deal with that. Because, I mean, since I'm, like so empathic, and want to help people that's like, my mission in life is to help people. It just became such a burden that I was like, oh, man, I gotta come up with like, a ritual to, like, get that bad juju up.

Scott Benner 59:06
I just I learned

Charis 59:07
a lot of things to a lot of tools to do that. And it really helps. So

Scott Benner 59:14
yeah, it's a human thing. Right. Like, it's just, I just talked about it yesterday. You know, I gave a talk yesterday, to someone. And I told them that one of the things that you had I had to get past was the feeling that I was responsible for everybody. Because right, you make you make this thing. Like you have to imagine I make the podcast like I have expectations that I hope it will do what I think it's going to do, but I have no way to know did you ever think it was gonna explode like it? Yeah, there's no way to know that. And then, and then you start getting back from people. Oh, this is helping me and this is how it's helping me. And then you think, well, if I could help them, if I could reach 10 People would help 10 people, and then you do that? Yeah, right. And then you're like, Oh, I reach 10 people, I should get to 100. And then 100 becomes 1000 1000 becomes 10,000 10,000. It's like I wonder if I get With 100,000. And then when you throw 100,000, you start thinking like, why What if I get a million downloads? And then you get that you're like, I wonder if I get 2 million and then 5 million and then 10. And like, I'm almost a 10 now. And I thought it was five, wow, 10 million total downloads will happen like in the next 30 days? And oh my god as party? No, because I can't, because when I see that I think I did 5 million this year. Like, I wonder if I could do 10 million next year. And then you start thinking about how to do that. How do you make content that helps people, because when it helps people, they'll want to share it with somebody, when they share it with somebody, they'll reach 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, and those will be more people who will have the moment in their life where they can say, Here's Scott, I found this podcast, bah, bah, bah. And that part I don't care about, the part I care about is when they say my agency went from this to this and my time and range went up, and I'm happier and healthier. And I have more energy and like those come constantly. Yeah, you know, and so when you know the content is going to work. It's the burden of everyone, right? Like, it's, it's like, it means it means more to me, because I know it helps somebody. And so you just, it's always about like, how do I find more people to help? And, you know, even that I found a way to, although I guess there are people who know me would say that that's not true. I am very competitive within, like with the idea of reaching more people and helping more people. So I've taken my competitiveness and put it into a positive thing. You know what I mean?

Charis 1:01:30
Oh, yeah, I mean, so I, one of the things I wanted to tell you is that after I was in the ICU, I didn't learn anything, you know, and I'm sitting there, like, you know, got cerebral edema. And my eyes are just, like, looking underwater for it just kind of boom, happened when I they moved me from the ICU to the floor. And I'm like, What's wrong with my eyes? Nobody's paying attention my eyes. It's like, that's what I fixated on. I'm like, I can't see how am I gonna function. And we're just like, you know, you like you have diabetes, you, it'll go away, it'll be fine. You know, whatever. And I had CDE come in, and sit down and say it's because the sugar is going into the lens of your eyes. And that's like osmosis, and it's dry and water and cuz like water follows sugar. And that it like, expands the lens and distorts everything. So I ended up going to boot camp with her because it was like, I don't know. I love the comments on your podcast for people are like, nurses don't know anything. And I'm like, yeah, and they tell us that too. And nursing school, they're like, don't ever, ever, ever assume you know more about diabetes than a patient that's had it for four years. If they have a pump, they know more than you, you will never know anything. Don't take that pump away from them. Don't challenge them think that you will learn from them. That's how you're gonna I mean, but I went to nursing school. So I wish everybody got that lecture. But yeah, she taught me exactly why. And then she's like, go and get a bunch of those like little optical reader glasses that you can get, like CVS or Walmart or whatever, like a box of um, because my visual would change every day. And this is a really inexpensive solution. I just feel like, am I gonna be 1.0 magnification or 1.75? You know, how long did that go on for three months? Drive for three months, it was horrible. That asked my friends to drive my kids to school and my mom and I mean, like I was a burden. And that CD II talked about your podcast and that's how I found it. And so while I was blind, I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna listen to this

Scott Benner 1:03:55
okay, can't see it. Thanks. So I'll try

Charis 1:03:58
and and it was like your voice was like, and your podcast was like my lifeline because like, I just really they just don't teach you anything in nursing. They don't and and in medicine, medical school like it there's too many diseases out there are so many and I know that that UND is a really big deal now and I really wish I could go back to all my patients I have had to end and apologize and be like, I just thought you took insulin and it was fine. Here I am like oh my god, I had no idea no idea how hard it is and what a steep learning curve it is and how much it affects the people around them and and how little knowledge is out there. Really incomplete information and so

Scott Benner 1:04:49
first, I'm sorry, you were gonna say something nice about me. Go ahead do that first.

Charis 1:04:57
I mean, I credit a credit your podcast. First, and the CD to saving my life and just like making it better, you know? Let it help. It did, it really did and then finding the Facebook community was just huge because it was like, oh, there's all these people with it. And I don't, okay. Okay. So if I'm just like patient, and I get my levels under control, then like, I will get better. And I was religious about it. You know, I got a Dexcom, like, two weeks in or something, which I had to really fight for. It was able to get from 13, eight to 5.8. Now I had, like some lows. So that's why it was a 5.8. But that's how fast you know, I was learning and trying to figure this whole thing out, you know. And it was like, I just learned so much from the podcasts that really attributed to keeping me alive.

Scott Benner 1:05:58
Well, I'm so you're welcome. Are you trying to say thank you?

Charis 1:06:01
I'm trying to say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:04
I can see you, we're never gonna get to it. So you're welcome.

Charis 1:06:07
You're like, say thank you.

Scott Benner 1:06:10
You know, I don't mean that. No, we're I mean, it can be hard. Yeah, it can be hard to say that. So I appreciate that you that you had that experience, and that it was valuable for you? Because, you know, like I said earlier, I don't know what I meant when I made the podcast the first time. Like, I wasn't sure all I knew was that I had written these blogs that were helping people and that people weren't reading blogs anymore. So I wrote a book about the became

Charis 1:06:39
like, the floppy disk.

Scott Benner 1:06:43
I saw myself going the way of the dodo with that blog, right? Because people I don't know what happened to all you but nobody reads. So you know, like it just it fell apart. I actually it's when the when the internet got more clickable. Oh, like so you know, you don't you can take in information without taking in words. And then people are like, I don't want to read. So I don't want to read. And so they weren't. And I luckily I keep saying this. I keep thinking maybe she'll hear it, but probably not. I had written a book about something, not about diabetes. And I found myself like on the Katie Couric show, and I got done. Oh, that was the side and she's like, Hey, you, you're really good at talking to people. And I was like, Oh, yeah. And so when that happened, that just jumped back into my head, like a year and a half later when I thought, Oh, I'm losing, like blogging is going to hell. This is going to end. And as I thought about I was like, I really don't want this to end. But I think it is because I went from like 1.8 million clicks a year, and it was falling. And I was like, it's not me. I'm still amazing, is that people? People really aren't reading. And then I thought well, that I was good at talking to people. And then I thought, well, maybe I'll try a podcast. And so

Charis 1:07:54
that's got like the voice for it, too. So

Speaker 1 1:07:59
it does make it easier. I have to tell you like there. I don't think you're wrong. I think I've listened to podcasts before where I don't jive with the person's voice and yeah, you kind of can't do it. So and there are people who don't like my voice. I've gotten emails, really, I liked the content. I don't like your voice and I was like, Okay, I like the content. I don't like your personality. That one hurts a little more.

Scott Benner 1:08:25
My mom says I'm alright, so go to hell. And so, but no, but and again, my favorite ones are I hate that guy. But the podcast is so valuable. I listen to it anyway. Like, I think I love those. Those are my favorite. Like because I just I laugh inside thinking that right now someone's listening. And not only did they hate me, but now I'm telling them I know it and they're like, and I'm still gonna listen.

Charis 1:08:54
And then if you step back, you're gonna make money.

Scott Benner 1:08:58
Absolutely tick it tickles me to no end so you hate me and I there's an ad in this episode that I paid my electric bill with. So

Charis 1:09:06
but you just don't.

Scott Benner 1:09:08
Meanwhile, I you know, I get I get that everybody can't like, I'm gonna tell you something right now. I listen to a podcast. I hate the host. Really? I hate her cadence. I hate her voice. I hate her sense of humor. There's nothing about her that I find enjoyable. But I listen to that podcast because it teaches me about something I need to know. So I am that person. I am you if you're listening and you're like, I hate this guy, but god damn it once. He's good. Like so.

Charis 1:09:40
I'll just like deal with my irritation.

Speaker 1 1:09:43
Actually in the same situation with another podcast, just so you all know I listen to a podcast. I hate the host how guests is valuable. So yeah, oh, by the way, I don't hate her. I'm sure she's fine. Just there's a lot about her that doesn't jive with what I want to be listening to. Aesthetically. That's all she You know, times, man, I, there are times that she'll laugh. And I'll say out loud, I'm by myself and I'll say out loud Oh, shut up. That's not funny.

Scott Benner 1:10:12
When she starts telling his story, and I'm like, oh my god, wrap it up Jesus Christ. And I know people are listening to me and having the same thought. So it makes me laugh twice. Anyway,

Charis 1:10:25
tick tock versus YouTube, right? We're getting so impatient that of like, you have to have this, like, you know, listen, in a perfect world, instant gratification or whatever, you know,

Speaker 1 1:10:37
in the perfect in a perfect world, I'd get the host that I like to listen to. But turns out, she's the only one making the content. Yep, it's valuable to me. And so I put up with the fact that I don't want to be friends with this person, although she seems delightful. And I'm sure that's how other people see this. I probably don't think I'm funny or whatever. But they've been listening for a while they've seen a good health response. And like, alright, well, listen, I, you know, I can do that. Having said that, was a person one time that Arden came on once? And I think in the course of the conversation, she said that she doesn't believe in God. Right. And I got notes from people are like, I can't listen to this anymore. Oh, my gosh, are

Charis 1:11:17
you kidding me?

Scott Benner 1:11:18
I'm like, That's fine with me. I mean, you are the same person who wrote me six months ago to tell me the gray one season the fives. But I mean, this is if this is the cut your nose off to spite your face like line you want to draw on the sand. I was like, okay, whatever. But I would just mean like things like that happen. It's so funny, though. It's like, man, it's understandable, don't you think? I mean, I get it.

Charis 1:11:42
Yeah. And I think I've been challenging myself the past couple of years to like, broaden my circle of friends and like what I listen to, to be not just what I like, because then I'm creating this place where I'm just shutting myself down and having like, internal bias, and then I'm not like evolving and growing as a person. So that's what I did. With all the, you know, the past three years, I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna evolve as a person. Because there's really nothing else I can do.

Scott Benner 1:12:18
We just sit here. I just as crazy as it sounds. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I, I tried to do Oh, yeah, I took up a, it was a podcast. And I thought, I don't think I agree with the host. Yet people seem to like it. And I'm gonna listen through it. And so the host would espouse ideas. And I started to realize that there are things that I generally disagree with. And I'd have like this, like, I mean, I don't want to call it triggered, but like you, it was, it was an overreaction, say something? And I'd be like, that's not right. And then I'd realize, oh, I don't know if that's not right, or it just doesn't seem right to me. And that's exactly an important distinction. So I started listening more, to force myself to hear opinions that I didn't agree with. And that that was helpful.

Charis 1:13:10
It's very helpful, because it helps you understand the world better. I think that, you know, you're like, oh, that's why people are doing that. Now. I gotta, you know, before I was just like, I don't understand how somebody could do that. Eventually, now, it's like, oh, you know, if they listen to the other side of things, it's like, if you really ask somebody, like, what's their opinion on a controversial topic and be like, this is a safe space, I'm not going to judge you. Like, I just want to hear your side of the story. And just listen, it's like, it really expands your horizons, I think

Scott Benner 1:13:48
it teaches you not to be judgmental, as well. I just did an episode, I just did an episode a week ago that I'm going to put out in a couple of weeks, where I talked to the mom of a type one girl. And, and this mom has two daughters. They're both trans. And so like, it was like a, I had this what I thought was a really interesting conversation, where I'm trying to learn about how they think about things and you know, like, immerse myself in a world I don't know very much about and I got done, and I thought this was really good. I can't wait to put that out. And then a week later, I was like, am I gonna get in trouble for this? Like, because I don't know where to stand like, you don't you mean? And I realized I'm like, I don't care. Like it's an honest conversation. And I was honestly learning and someone else will learn will learn to and so I will absolutely put it out. And it's Yeah, I don't know like you just have to be able to get involved and hear someone say something and go I completely disagree with that. It doesn't make it wrong. And I'll tell you like you can pick the most bombastic example right like the abortion argument is that is that is a great way to like I understand pro choice people opinion and I understand pro life people's opinion. And I don't think I don't think understanding that a person's a pro life person says, Look, you're killing a baby if you have an abortion, right? Like, they say that. And then I think well, and that the other side thinks like, well, well, I want to protect the mother and bigger and bigger picture issues. And I think those things are important. And you can be right all about that, about all of that. It doesn't make what they said wrong.

Charis 1:15:30
Right? It's like, you can have different opinions and yet still respect each other. And how, like, give, I don't know, I have this thing where I just feel like I should give everybody that I interact with dignity and respect. It's like a basic human right. I know, I'm weird. But

Scott Benner 1:15:47
no, no, no, but but the point is, is that both sides can be right. Yeah. And it's just that you've decided that the things you care about in this argument are more important than the things you don't care about. So you fall on a side of it. And they feel the same exact way. And just because you're comfortable with your decisions doesn't make their decision wrong, it just means that they find more value in the parts of the discussion that they decided to take seriously. And no one sees that everybody's like, Well, I think this so that's wrong. All right. You know, and that's not the truth. You can, these are not mutually exclusive things, both. Both sides are right, they just care about, the more the details they care about are different. That's all Oh, if that makes sense or not, but

Charis 1:16:40
totally new way recently, it was like a week after Roe v. Wade was overturned, I went to my stepdad his profoundly pro life, but he doesn't ever talk about it. Like he just votes that way. And, you know, like, I've known him for 30 years. And we just never talked about it. And I sat down with him. And I was like, you know, what, I really want to hear why you're pro choice. I mean, are pro life. And I just want to hear, like your logic behind it and what that experience was like for you because he lived through when it was, you know, when 1973? Right. Yeah. And, and he said, You know, I just believe as a scientist, that life begins at conception. And so that's just my belief, and I can't get that out of my head. And who am I to tell people what to do with their body or whatever, but I just can't get that out of my head. And I was like, wow, that's just amazing that after 30 years, I finally sat down with him and was like, this is a safe place. I want to hear your experience. Because he was like, it just happened. And then, you know, people were going into clinics, and it was just shocking for him. Like almost a traumatic

Scott Benner 1:18:01
probably to learn that his opinion, wasn't that your opinion that other people's opinions don't matter, that you don't mean like, he's that in his mind. He's not anti women, or anti choice or anything like that. That's not how he processes the situation. That's not how he processes. That's, by the way, that's true for everything. So just imagine that right? Let's, I'm in charge of watching over 33,000 people talk to each other online. Whenever someone argues, it's never for the reason they think they're arguing. And you can step back as a third party and watch it and go, Oh, I see what happened here. This, this person hard, this person doesn't think that that should be the way they took it. And now everybody digs their heels in, and then they're going to argue, and I mean, obviously not the same thing as talking about big, big issues. But it's still it's still the idea. Like, there's I want to say that there's no right or wrong. There's just version, there's just like I said, there's salient details about a topic, that mean more to you than the other salient details, and then there's someone on the other side, where that's, that's flip flopped. And then you go, Well, you're wrong. They're not wrong. You know, it's, you could I mean, I had that conversation without mom, like, I understand when people say things, like, you know, like, like, did seem anti trans like, it's, it hits their brain that their brains, like can't process it, and then hear them. You hear the mom talk about the same topic from her perspective. And I go, Oh, that's, that makes 1,000% that that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. Like, I don't know how to argue with that. You know what I mean? And then the person on the other side is like, well, here's this thing that makes 100,000,000% sense to me. I don't know how anybody could argue with this. And

Charis 1:19:49
the Bible gets involved.

Scott Benner 1:19:51
And so the only way I could figure out how to like push myself past it was to listen to people that I abjectly disagreed with and to try to find their opinion It didn't make me jump to their side making error. It just made me go, Oh, I see what they're, I see why they're thinking about like this.

Charis 1:20:07
Yeah, like, like, they're not bad people, because I used to just say, Oh, they're just mad people that just have a different opinion. That was like such a young thing to say. But you know, like, as I've gotten older and like, you know, it's not so black and white. Yeah. And I think one of the things that happened during the pandemic was that my son actually said this, that it's like, we've become tribalism. So people found, you know, their people, and then they just stuck together. And I think that's one of the bad things that's happened. But there are some good things because there are people like you and I that are that can see past that and step outside of it and be like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Scott Benner 1:20:51
Well, you can just argue anything to the end of the earth. Right. And, and we slogan things, so Well, we're so good at sloganeering things. That because a great, I'll just the first one that pops into my head is meat is murder. Oh, yeah. Right here, you're like, Oh, my God, it is they killed the cow, you know, like, and then you're just like a cow, such a sweet animal. And like, I'm not certain that's right or wrong, you understand? I'm saying then someone comes along and says, Listen, we've developed over hundreds of 1000s of years to eat meat. And and we're carnivores. And you go, Oh, that makes sense, too. And then it just goes back and forth. And you think, you know, if you go out to a ranch in the middle of the Midwest, where they're ranching cattle, and I don't know, if they're branding, the cattle, there's somebody who's gonna come along, go, Oh, my God, that's you can't brand the cattle, people have been doing that for forever, that so they don't lose their cattle. And here we all are, and then you go, and then you can just, if you and I wanted to start arguing about that, I could just assign a side of the argument to you, you wouldn't even need to agree with it. And you could actively and impactfully argue that side of it, because there's so many details and slogans and concepts that you can't, you know, you can disagree with like, you're right. It's crazy. Although isn't it interesting? Like, I bet you that the meat is murder crowd is probably the pro choice crowd.

Charis 1:22:20
I think you're right. And then the pro life crowd might be the, or what is the? Well, you know, like, Wait, I don't understand the logic there. I'm sure there is some, like I just Yes.

Scott Benner 1:22:38
And that's what, by the way, when that happens, that's how the other side digs their heels in there, like so you're pro life, but pro death penalty. So we can't kill a baby where we can kill it. You've heard this argument, right? Yeah. And then you hear it over and over again, to the point where like, well, that must be a rule too. And then that's, anyway, the point is, if I may, no one's right. And no one's wrong. It just leave everybody. With your life, you know,

Charis 1:23:08
people like being on the internet. It's just such a funny thing, though. Because it's like, you know, they get so worked up. And it's like, this is just, you know, and medium to read things. And we assign emotional value to words, you know, and it's just so freaking computer. So that also is pointing you into your own little bubble with the machine learning, you know, so it's like, yeah,

Scott Benner 1:23:42
there's only a fraction of people are actually on the internet, which is hard to believe, like, so that's why Oh, yeah, only a fraction of people are on the internet. So most people don't give a shit about the argument you're having, they don't have their they get up in the morning, they're feed their kids, they're going to their work, they don't have time to decide if it's okay, that a trans man is swimming in a thing against other women. Like or, you know, it's just an example that came up in the other episode, or if you're having an abortion or not, or if like, they don't, they don't care. They're they're working, you know, so it gets focused. And you start thinking, well, the opinions I'm seeing in this space, are everyone's opinion, but it's not true. It's the opinions you're seeing that space are the opinions of people who would find themselves in that space. Right? Yeah. And that's

Charis 1:24:29
like its own kind of bias, right?

Scott Benner 1:24:33
Like you like if you're on Twitter, you think you're on Twitter with the whole world you're not you're on Twitter with people who it occurred to, to go on Twitter. And there are plenty of people who it would never occur to you to go on Twitter, and they may have different opinions than yours. Or like, you know, as an Exactly, yeah. Anyway, the point is, no one's right. No one's wrong. Shut up. That's it. I'm not right either.

Charis 1:24:53
Yeah, we need to you need to put that on your Facebook page right now because like some of them are

Scott Benner 1:25:00
Oh, no, it's Christmas. Oh, and so here's what happens at Christmas. Everyone's anxiety goes up, and they get chippy. Yep, you know, chippy it's a hockey term, I think. Just you know, and so every year around this time, I just put up a message about Christmas. I just thought that I'm gonna read it. And then we're gonna get done here. So I said, the goose is getting fat. Christmas is coming. And that can mean only one thing. It's time for me to remind everyone that this time of year can come with heightened feelings. Please remember to offer your fellow travelers the benefit of the doubt, communication is key. It is highly unlikely that anyone is with you. Oh,

Charis 1:25:44
I remember that. And I totally love that you said

Scott Benner 1:25:49
peace on earth and all that

Charis 1:25:54
is your best first.

Scott Benner 1:25:56
But it's interesting like to be involved in something like this over time, you start seeing how cyclical things are. Yeah, oh, it's this time of year, people get a little upset. This happens. And then you start seeing arguments in specific areas pick up you're like, oh, it's time for them to argue about this again. It's interesting. Trust me, your free will is not as free as you think it is. That's true. Yeah, Christmas is coming. You get upset, you can't afford something. You're thinking about having to get back together with your family that you don't want to get back together with or you want to get together with a family member but you can't afford to travel or something. And then anxiety builds up. Then you see a lady online say they eat low carb and you're like you must

Charis 1:26:41
see that. Like that's all carbs, I need the carbs. I just want the life with the carbs I just before

Scott Benner 1:26:54
the food choices around diabetes are such an interesting thing. Like it fits right into this passionate about it. Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate their passion, but Shut up. Like other people can eat a different way. And if it kills them, guess what? It's there. Yeah, it's not it's not that hard.

Charis 1:27:14
It's like with with that with that little freewill. They have that choice. You know,

Scott Benner 1:27:20
I had somebody tell me recently, like, I disagree with your eating style. But I think this podcast is great. And I thought

Charis 1:27:28
oh, are they ended up with that guy's name? The crazy diet guy.

Scott Benner 1:27:34
Well see now you've said crazy diet guy. So I'm not gonna guess anyone's name. Because I don't care how people eat. I genuinely don't like if you know, I really don't care

Charis 1:27:42
super low carb. And I don't

Scott Benner 1:27:44
think you listen, if you want to eat super low carb. I don't think you're crazy. I think they're on the worst for you. Yeah,

Charis 1:27:50
but yeah, that's totally their choice. But

Scott Benner 1:27:54
come after her. Leave me alone. It's Dr. Bernstein. I was like, I knew what you meant, but I wasn't gonna say it. So, because, and seriously, because I don't think they're crazy. I think that they found. Yeah, they found something that works for them. I don't understand why they can't be happy when other people want to try to find a different thing that works for them too. But it's okay. And And meanwhile, that's also an over exaggeration. Everybody who eats low carb doesn't go online and yell at people. It's a small consortium of people who if I'm being honest, seem like they're trying to make a living off it a little bit. And so it's good to kind of keep the argument going because it draws people in. And this is where I'll tell the story. That when I wrote that book I talked about earlier, it sold for a month, like a best seller. I couldn't figure out why. Like I was top I think I was in the top 50 on Amazon, all books, all books for like, for like a week. So as this was happening, Somebody contacted me and said, see your books like number 46 in the country. And I'm like, that's not right. And then I went look, and it was, and I was like, How is this happening? So here's how it happened. There was the interview I did with Katie Couric that got reposted on Yahoo. Maybe? And oh, yeah. Okay, and it made its way to the front page of Yahoo. And comment on it. And an argument ensued, that if I was a stay at home father, it meant I was a closeted homosexual. Oh, wow. That was that was the argument. This was like 2013. And then people would come in and say that's not true. And, and then they argued with each other. And while they were arguing, you know what happened? Next people bought the book.

Charis 1:29:47
People buy the book, because they want to read what's this about? So my

Scott Benner 1:29:51
wife says to me, does it bother you that this argument is happening around you? And I was like, No. Bonus, people are buying the book. And so I think of that the same way with these arguments about how people eat. Like, you don't see, you never see just a guy arguing with somebody about you shouldn't eat carbs, you'll see a guy who's got a Facebook page about low carb, and he likes to coach people about it, or he's selling a video where he wants to get you back to his YouTube or something like that those people are happy to argue, because that argument gins up eyes, then there's a bunch of eyes in there, and then they grab some of the eyes. Yep. And those eyes become funny. And there's money behind that. So that's really, that's how you see it happen. I can even think of people who run great Facebook groups around an idea that is not monetized. And those people are not argumentative, the people who are argumentative, monetizing something somewhere, because as long as the people are arguing about whether or not I'm gay, some percentage of those people go by the book. So we argue about how we eat and some percentage of those people end up on my website, or it's someone else's website. And they're buying a six week course and how to do something, or they're donating to their 501 C three about how they eat or something. Trust me, it's

Charis 1:31:16
not Yeah, there's undercurrents of everything was a whole influencer thing.

Scott Benner 1:31:21
So when you get caught up in those arguments, just realize that you have been purposefully drawn into that argument by someone who just wants your IP address or, or something like that. Anyway, that's all I have for you. This was good, you're good. Yeah, I gotta, I'm out of time. So I gotta stop. Go take care of your kids. I got to figure out what Cole wants. And I gotta get to a meeting in a little bit. So yeah,

Charis 1:31:49
it was such a pleasure talking to you. I just want you to know, the Keep doing what you're doing and sending out, you know, positive energy in the world where not everybody does. Well, you're making a difference.

Scott Benner 1:32:04
I appreciate that. You should know that. I tried two different tactics with you because you are like, you have a lot of energy. Yeah, right. And so I tried matching your energy. And that didn't work. Because some sometimes if you match it, like everybody levels, and then so that I tried going opposite. So people were still listening can think about this, then I tried going opposite of you to see if I could draw you towards me. It was just an exercise for me. I know which one were neither of them. You blue bass, both of them.

Charis 1:32:36
That sounds like me. Absolutely.

Scott Benner 1:32:39
Neither of them worked. I thought maybe I could because I wanted you like 10% less. And so it's okay, by the way, you were terrific. But I but I thought well, I'll match her and then she'll, she'll feel my energy and come down that Yeah. Oh, real low key, and I'll try to pull her towards me. And that didn't work either.

Charis 1:32:57
That's because I am like this. Daughter of a very powerful woman.

Scott Benner 1:33:04
Oh, you're fighting? You fight for your space a lot.

Charis 1:33:07
Yeah. All right. All right. Got that model to me. So I'm not afraid to speak up. And it gets me in trouble all the time.

Scott Benner 1:33:18
Not to me. I know.

Charis 1:33:21
I'd have something to say. And so. Yeah, so as does everybody else. And yeah, so. I mean, I

Scott Benner 1:33:30
think it's great. Good for you. Great.

Charis 1:33:34
I think one thing that I forgot to mention was, like the whole link between COVID and diabetes, because people are gonna be like, Why is this? Why are we talking about COVID?

Scott Benner 1:33:44
Oh, yeah, that is what you wanted to come on.

Charis 1:33:47
I totally forgot until just when you're

Scott Benner 1:33:50
like I'm out of time. Give it Give it to me.

Charis 1:33:53
There's only studies out I find them interesting. I don't know if that's what caused me to get it I think it is my doctor's thinking is but they've done a study with 200,000 people. And it was saying that people got COVID had like a two times as likely chance to then go on into develop either type one or type shoot down the road about six months thereafter. If I'm not just like, fascinating, because

Scott Benner 1:34:22
I mean, now listen, viruses can your kick they kick your immune system in and if you're predisposed to type one, then you might be thinking I listen. I I'm my son got COVID I was like, Oh, come on. Come on. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's only been a couple of months since he got it. So I mean, I'm having said that most of the people I've had on who were COVID than type one, it happened pretty quickly. But that's, that's anecdotal. Like that's just the people that I spoken to so far. But yeah,

Charis 1:35:00
yeah, it's interesting. It's just, I mean, and there's arguments. The virus actually attacks beta cells. And then, you know, other scientists are like, No, it doesn't. And so who knows?

Scott Benner 1:35:13
Yeah, back to our original conversation, actually our fourth conversation, trust.

Charis 1:35:19
Me Maybe think the one we had was better. So, yeah, no, I just think it's funny how there's so many different kinds of diabetes. I did not know that there's, like 10, or something. Last time I.

Scott Benner 1:35:32
I did an episode about that. There's like an endless there's types of diabetes. Lis Yeah.

Charis 1:35:38
Had a roommate at this time diabetes retreat I went to in Costa Rica, and she had mid. And you're like, hey, what? So that's mitochondrial inherited diabetes that comes with deafness.

Scott Benner 1:35:57
Okay. While no, it's not because Jenny and I did an episode about it. And we Oh, my God, like, there's diabetes type eight or something I forget. But it's, it's Oh, I

Charis 1:36:10
know. Like, it just opened my mind in my eyes to like, how different it is, and yet how we're all kind of going through the same thing. So back to your original point of you know, this, I see this a lot on your Facebook page, like, let's get rid of the type twos. And I'm like, that's, you know, 90.

Scott Benner 1:36:33
So it's interesting that you, it's interesting that it appears to you that way, because I have my I think if you see a couple of people say a thing, you think, Oh, I hear that all the time. But I see. I see all of it. And I've only heard it a couple of times. But it is a weird thing. It strikes me as like, like, I don't want to type two people here because we're talking about type one. And I keep pointing back to the type two people have been on the podcast and say, like, listen to these people who have, you know, needed insulin as type twos and how they're basically managing just the same way you do and how much better you know. So it's, it's about insulin, if you're using manmade insulin, the podcast should be valuable to you. Definitely. That's what I think so. All right. I have to go. This was lovely. Thank you very much. Hold on one second for me. Oh, my pleasure.

Huge thanks to Karis for coming on the show and sharing her story with us. Thanks to AG one drink, ag one.com forward slash juice box. And, of course, touched by type one, where you can find on Facebook, Instagram, and it touched by type one.org. You've got to check out the private Facebook group Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes. It's a private group that now has I think, 43,000 members in it. It's jumping. So many posts, questions, statements, ideas and things that you'll dig on and enjoy reading more about. You might even want to jump in Juicebox Podcast type one diabetes on Facebook

don't forget that diabetes Pro Tip series begins at episode 1000 In your player and goes to 1026. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of The Juicebox Podcast.