+ Click for EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

---

DISCLAIMER: This text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record. Nothing that you read here constitutes advice medical or otherwise. Always consult with a healthcare professional before making changes to a healthcare plan.

Scott Benner 0:00
Hello friends, and welcome to episode 1037 of the Juicebox Podcast.

Have a treat for you today I'll be speaking with John. He's 54 years old diagnosed with type one diabetes in 1975. About 20 years after his diagnosis, he had a major complication. John's a guy who's been giving himself his own insulin. since third grade, he didn't have a glucose meter, and he would go sometimes years without testing his blood sugar. While you're listening, please remember that nothing you hear on the Juicebox Podcast should be considered advice medical or otherwise, always consult a physician before making any changes to your health care plan, or becoming bold with insulin betterhelp.com forward slash juice box save 10% off your first month of therapy. Drink ag one.com forward slash juice box get a free year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs a big one with your first order and save 40% off of your entire order at cosy earth.com When use the offer code juice box at checkout. Don't forget to check out the remastered diabetes Pro Tip series it begins at episode 1000 and runs through episode 1026. You can also find them at juicebox podcast.com and diabetes pro tip.com. Today's conversation is sponsored by Omni pod makers, the Omni pod dash and the Omni pod five, learn more and get started today at Omni pod.com. Forward slash Juicebox. Podcast is also sponsored by the contour next gen blood glucose meter. Contour next.com forward slash juicebox. You too can have an incredibly accurate meter. Oh, did you think maybe yours was? Did you check? It might not be contour is contour next.com forward slash juicebox.

John 2:09
Alright, so hey, I'm John was diagnosed in 1975 with type one, a little over 20 years after that I lost my sight completely from complications.

Scott Benner 2:21
Well, how old were you in 70 577 years old?

John 2:26
I'm 54. So Wow. I know you hate math. So how

Scott Benner 2:31
are you Ellison junk? Let's just get past that, you know? 1975 Do you remember the management?

John 2:38
I saw I have like, kind of like, pictures in my head. It's mostly. I mean, I remember certain times and places and I remember by either later that year, possibly early next year, I saw my mom holding the syringe and her hand was shaking. I'm like, no, no, no. Like, give me that. And that was it. Like, from third grade on I was given my own shots. Now she would draw it up.

Scott Benner 3:03
But it's not something she was comfortable with.

John 3:06
Maybe it was just a bad day. I don't know. Again, it's not a it's not like a color film. I'm looking back on. It's just one picture. I remember.

Scott Benner 3:15
But it was enough to make you step up. Yeah, yeah. And what were you getting? Were you getting a shot a day or two shots a day? How are you sure

John 3:23
I was getting that was? Yeah, I was getting two day that you know, NPH and regular. And what's funny is I don't ever remember forgetting to take my insulin. My went to junior high one time and I'm like, oh my god, I forgot. And I actually just ran home and took it and ran back. No big deal.

Scott Benner 3:43
The 70s nobody cared. Nobody cared.

John 3:48
Where's that diabetic kid?

Scott Benner 3:49
Oh, he's gone. He'll be alright. Are you? Well, yeah, no matter. See, you're trying to tell me that you think you were consistently taking what you were supposed to take?

John 3:59
Yeah, but I think as we get into this conversation further, those doses don't work. One year 2022.

Scott Benner 4:10
So nobody ever adjusts anything for you

John 4:13
know, maybe. And again, the like the doctor's visits where, you know, my story isn't much different than I've heard people talk about but a lot of threats, a lot of shaking the head. And well, it's better. You're higher than lower.

Scott Benner 4:30
Yeah. And then that's what you do. And then this is where it goes. Yeah. And so are you seeing I mean, I can't imagine but were you weren't seeing an endocrinologist as a child? Were you?

John 4:42
Great question. I it's funny. I remember the some of the names of the doctors. I don't remember what they did. I mean, at one point, later, probably when I was 18, I went up to University of San Francisco and did like a week long class there and They had a big type diabetes program. But that was like the first thing I did on my own. And I was 18. So,

Scott Benner 5:07
and that's 11 years after you're diagnosed? Yes. Yes. Was there ever a moment where you thought I'm not taking enough insulin?

John 5:15
Now? Because I didn't, I didn't understand the dynamics of diabetes. It was, oh, yeah, take a shot. What's the big deal about that? Like, almost like it's, I mean, back then, I didn't know what an epi pen was. But like, oh, as long as I take this on fine,

Scott Benner 5:34
like a pill almost like somebody tells you like a multivitamin. multivitamin. You got to take this twice a day. And you're like, Alright, I know you do it. Yeah. But with no understanding of the actions or reactions, or anything that's going on behind the scenes, and no one ever explains it to you and try to. I mean, keep in context, if you're listening now, and you're like, why didn't he just look on his own, like, the internet didn't exist? Like, oh, like, that wasn't really a thing, you know, until, I mean, long after? I mean, right around the time you started having problems, honestly, I'm trying to think of when I had email the first time. And

John 6:10
blood meters didn't exist. Right.

Scott Benner 6:11
Right. For me. Were they doing blood tests at your visits?

John 6:16
I believe so. And again, this this stuff is real hazy. And it's, it's, it's funny, because a lot of my memories that will actually all my memories are visual. They sort of have to be but yeah, it's very hazy. And they're, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on in the family. Dynamics. My parents were divorced. I don't know if it was a year before I was diagnosed or the same year. Was there stuff was getting lost. Yeah. In the fray.

Scott Benner 6:43
You know, anybody else have diabetes in the family? No, I'm

John 6:47
the I'm the youngest of five. And something I listened to recently made me think back to so my, my mother's mom. So um, my grandparents came over from Ireland. And so records are Irish. I'm big on records, by the way. We do about that. Okay. Yeah, well, I didn't know or statues either. I heard that the other day. That was a good one.

Scott Benner 7:12
What did I say about oh, by your wife?

John 7:15
Irish statue.

Scott Benner 7:18
They're like an Irish statue. I like you here. You heard it here. First. The Irish don't take good records. Not

John 7:26
maybe they do. They

Scott Benner 7:28
just don't talk about it. Well, maybe that's true. I don't know. I also don't think has anything to do with being Irish, but it's so hilarious.

John 7:35
Makes me feel bad.

Scott Benner 7:38
Oh, like, like, there was no choice that they were just following their programming. I gotcha. Exactly.

John 7:43
But I did I remember in dosh when I was in sixth grade, so I remember my my grandmother dying. My mom's mom, and nobody knows what she died from. And my grandfather lived for another 15 years, but, but she actually now back then, I swear she was 100. But as I do the math, I'm like, gosh, she was only in her 70s. She just seemed that old to Yes. And she had a leg amputated. Jesus. I never knew, probably about a year before she died, maybe. And no one ever knew. Like, why? They just wasn't talked about.

Scott Benner 8:22
Nobody spoke about that. No, huh. It's interesting.

John 8:25
And then I'm like, Could she have had some autoimmune? I don't, she wasn't taking insulin as far as I know. But who knows?

Scott Benner 8:35
Maybe I mean, for a family member to have an amputation. And for no one to know why. That is? That is a strong example of how some families don't talk about things.

John 8:48
Yeah. And I know, I know, my grandfather took care of her. It wasn't that wasn't a question of that. But it's kind of that you know, rub some dirt on it. And let's go

Scott Benner 8:57
Yeah. Oh, you didn't mean take care of her like got rid of her. You meant like cared for? Because you said she knew how I thought maybe

John 9:04
I'm not Italian.

Scott Benner 9:07
Well, just maligned everybody. John today. Well, there's

John 9:12
too much Sopranos. I guess.

Scott Benner 9:14
What a good show. Awesome. It was really great. I'm seeing here by the way that AOL was founded in 1985, but became popular. It went public in 92. And they say became popular in 97. I remember having the internet on my computer. When I was like 1920 years old, which would have been around like, like 90, like in there and we were pretty, like we were pretty ahead like we were going to computer shows and buying parts and building computers and stuff like that. Yeah. Back then. I was like, sorry,

John 9:49
I was a late comer. Because well, I was losing my eyesight. So a computer was the last thing on my mind. But then I realized, wait actually need a computer like I I need to, I need to figure this stuff out. So I came on in like 99 2000. Yeah,

Scott Benner 10:05
I remember going to go into a computer show and like the armory, like, you know, just the place where they had. And there was just tables everywhere. And you'd go to one guy and buy the motherboard. And you'd go to another table and buy the RAM. And you'd go to another table and buy the case and the power supply. Yeah, went home and put it all together and loaded Windows on it. And you had a computer back then RAM used to cost $100 A Meg. So eight Meg's of Ram was $800. Just keep that in mind. That's amazing. I love when people complain about things. I'm hearing it today. You know, they, this will be months later when somebody hears this, but Dexcom is getting really close to release in the g7. And all people want to know is when is it going to work with my mighty slim? When's it gonna work with my Omnipod five, and then there's always a couple of angry voices, like they don't care. I'm like, they don't care. They care plenty. Like there's a company, they're trying to make their thing work with a thing. Like they care plenty, everybody just they lose sight of what things used to be. And I think I think things happen so quickly. Now. It's hard to have compassion for it anymore. Like, well, how come this isn't happening immediately? It was it because it takes time. You know, and, and by the way, I used to pay $100 a meg for RAM. So stop saying

John 11:22
the good old days when I complained about the size of a syringe. I mean, stop saying

Scott Benner 11:27
things are getting worse. They're not getting smaller and faster and cheaper. But anyway, okay, so. So there's kind of turmoil in your house. This is the entire time you're growing up. Because you said your parents split up around the time you were you were diagnosed? Do you end up living with your mom or your dad?

John 11:49
Mom and actually Mom, mom went to work. And the cool thing about well, at the time, it wasn't so cool. But I look back and appreciate what she did. She she got a job and worked from like 5:30am till about three. So she was home.

Scott Benner 12:10
Oh, she wanted to be home when you guys got home from school? Yes, yes. It's a good I just didn't

John 12:14
always work with my plants. But

Scott Benner 12:19
when you try to bring girls or reading to the house, your mom was home already was going on junk. Whatever. Whatever. I liked that. You've been willing to say everything you've said so far. When I asked what you were bringing to the house. You're like, I don't really want to comment on that.

John 12:34
Well, I think I just answered it.

Scott Benner 12:38
And, and health. So health care is not on the forefront of anyone's mind like you in I'm assuming in your family's mind. John takes a shot takes this other shot. We know what we're doing there. Nobody's thinking about that. Again, right. Like that doesn't come up for for reconsideration at any point. All only

John 12:57
when the paramedics come. Oh height.

Scott Benner 13:00
How often did that happen?

John 13:02
I remember in those days, maybe three or four times? For a low one? Yes. Yes. One was walking to school sixth grade. And it's funny. I kind of remember this a little bit better up until a certain point but my art our schools were walking distance High School in junior high. And I was in sixth grade. So I'm walking with a friend I just kept tripping and he's laughing Of course, like they was probably look pretty funny. And my older sister I have three sisters. But one of my older sisters, someone ran back and got her or she was on her way to high school and saw and ran back and call called Mom Mom called 911 Whatever. Here's what's interesting. And this gives you just a little sense of kind of family life little bit. And I I love all my sisters, but one of my sisters, a different sister told me this was only like four or five months ago. But I we live close to her now. And yeah. And she's like, I gotta tell you something. I'm like what I mean, this is 42 years later, she goes, I remember that day I was across the street. And she goes, I didn't want to get involved. I just put my head down and walked to school. Oh, wow. I'm like, What

Scott Benner 14:25
did she say? Why?

John 14:26
Because that's, that's what was kind of going on in our world.

Scott Benner 14:32
Choosing an insulin pump feels like a big decision. And it is. I hope it helps you to know that my daughter has been using an omni pod since she was four years old, and she is 19. That's 15 years of using and wearing an omni pod every day. You can learn more about Omni pod at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. At my link you can learn about the Omni pod five. It's a tubeless Automated insulin delivery system. In fact, the AMI pod five is the first and only tubeless automated insulin delivery system to integrate with the Dexcom G six. And it's available for people with type one diabetes ages two years and older. It features smart adjust technology, which helps adjust insulin delivery based on your customized target glucose. This of course helps to protect against highs and lows, both day and night. Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox. Now if you're not looking for the Omni pod five, but you still want to Bliss, you know, you don't want automated but you want to Bliss, you're looking for the Omni pod dash, same link Omni pod.com forward slash juice box. As a matter of fact, if you scroll down a little bit, you can check your coverage, and even get a free trial of the Omni pod, you can take it for a test drive on the pod.com forward slash juice box where the same pump, the same tubeless pump, the same pump that won't get its tubing stuck on doorknobs that you can wear in a shower or swimming in a pool or jumping in the ocean or playing soccer anywhere. That same pump, the same pump my daughter wears, you can wear it to omnipod.com forward slash juicebox. There are also links in the show notes of the audio app you're listening in right now. And at juicebox podcast.com. When you use my links, you're supporting the show.

John 16:27
Like he just didn't, he didn't talk about things. And which is funny because I'm like, I kind of rebound actually, we've all rebounded. I think we all want to talk about a lot of things now. In a healthy way.

Scott Benner 16:40
Yeah. But back then, like that was going on across the street. Something else like I don't want to be involved even though it's my brother. Yeah. Wow. That hurt your feelings when you heard that.

John 16:53
I thanked her. I'm like, I mean, look, forgiveness is a real thing. And I didn't know I needed to forgive her. And I'm like, Oh my God, you know, 54 of like, you will need one more thing to carry here.

Scott Benner 17:08
Exactly. I'd be mad about this. Yeah. When I could be mad that the insulin pump companies aren't making Dexcom integration phase. Right. Right, right. No, I take your I mean, I agree with you. I there's, I mean, as you get older, you figure things out, right? But that's why being mad. It's just, it's ridiculous. It's just, it's without sense. I mean, you stop. The easiest way to consider this. Is that wherever you are in your life right now, if you think back past five years, you don't remember a damn thing, let alone what you were upset about. Rice just it's just a waste of time. I mean, you can address things in the moment but sure, carrying it or carrying it around with you is just is meaningless.

John 17:51
You got to look back a little bit to look for a lot of people. And I've been guilty this too. A lot. Go to look back and then they're stuck.

Scott Benner 18:01
Yeah, yeah. You can get you can get past and, and not be able to let go of something. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. How old? How much older? Was she the new or is she i guess? Two years? Two years older. Alright. So she was I mean, if you're in sixth grade, she's an eighth grade. She's she's an eighth. She's not looking to be does that carry forward in her personality? Like, do you see that in her now?

John 18:25
No, she's not not Not that side. Yeah, she's she's, she's a stand up person. She has four boys. And just great mom, great sister. I mean, that's, I can't stress that enough. But, you know, I was probably a little punk. Brother two times. Yeah.

Scott Benner 18:46
I don't think she looked over and thought, oh, maybe we'll get rid of him today. She probably didn't understand. Well, the seriousness of it even like, because this has happened to you in the past, but you're always okay afterwards. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When do you when do you have your first complication? And what is it?

John 19:10
Well, I'm just gonna go right to the eyes then because I don't know what I'm sure I was having complications. In my, you know, my preteen years and but but I didn't know there were complications, like when you're running around with. I mean, who knows what my blood sugar was? Got. I didn't test. Yeah. I mean, that's part of my story. And I hope people don't like oh my god, I'm not gonna listen to scan anymore. But I went probably five years at a time without ever testing. Yours. Yes. Oh, my gosh, what you didn't even when did you get a meter? Like when's the first time you had an at home meter? I don't remember. I know I got one. But I don't remember. Like, I should, but you don't

Scott Benner 19:56
even know. And it wasn't and you didn't grow up with It was the idea that this was part of the process. So this was basically just someone adding another step that you had lived a long time without and probably figured, like, this isn't necessary. Yeah, yeah. When you did test you ever remember what your blood sugar's were?

John 20:16
No, I mean, not until not until the age of 25 was a whole lot of years in there. Right? And I who I played baseball, I played football. I worked I, I did it all. And you know, the whole thing, the whole Don't be low. Don't be low. You know?

Scott Benner 20:37
Yeah, don't pass out. Yeah, at 18 years, you didn't know what your blood sugar was? No. Wow. And that was not outrageous. You didn't feel like you were doing something wrong? Or did you know,

John 20:51
I don't I don't know when I crossed the line from it don't know. I don't care, too. I care. But I'm still kind of in denial about it. Do you

Scott Benner 21:01
think of yourself that way as being in denial about having diabetes?

John 21:05
No, no, no, I don't. But I did. You did

Scott Benner 21:08
then. Yes. And it was easy to ignore. Because you just if you just did these two shots, then you didn't die? And then that was enough. Yeah. And

John 21:17
you know, people talk about, you know, DKA and all that stuff. I think with DK DK, once you feel it, it's probably a little too late. You should have dealt with it five hours earlier, but I could actually feel it. I'm like, Yeah, this doesn't feel right. And then we'll take some more, more insulin, and then you

Scott Benner 21:37
would give yourself more insulin. Yes. This doesn't feel right. So what did we give context now? Like for how high you like, can you guess how high you were when you have that feeling of like, This doesn't feel right.

John 21:50
Oh, I'm gonna guess 600.

Scott Benner 21:54
Okay, so you're probably right in the four hundreds, at least most of the time.

John 21:59
Yes. Wow. And young enough to fool it.

Scott Benner 22:05
Like power. Throw it? Yeah.

John 22:07
And I really, I didn't come on and talk about every other podcast. But I really enjoyed that conversation about, I don't let diabetes, stop me or whatever. I'm like, That is such a double edged sword, man.

Scott Benner 22:21
I'm so glad I was worried when we did that one.

John 22:24
Now you are on it. I mean, you That was seriously, just there's two ways to look at that.

Scott Benner 22:30
Yeah, no, I just I imagine. It's obviously everyone's not the same. But when I hear people say that, and I can kind of sift through what they're getting at. I imagine the story you're telling being their life. Yeah. Were like, I have my blood sugar's 400. But I still went to school. And I still did that. And then blah, blah, blah. I don't let diabetes get in my way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that that resonated with you. I appreciate you sharing that with me. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. So when do you notice your site? And does it wane? Does it go right away? Or how does it happen? Every one of us gets a blood glucose meter. But we don't always get to choose. Sometimes the doctor just gives you one or they write a prescription for the one that they like, or the one they're comfortable with. But do you know if your meter is accurate, there are levels of accuracy and blood glucose meters, I think you should check out the contour next gen blood glucose meter at contour next one.com Ford slash juice box. It's possible in fact that the contour next gen could be cheaper for you in cash than you're paying right now for your test strips through your insurance company. And these test strips offer Second Chance testing. So you can kind of you know, hit the blood, not quite download, but gonna move your hand and I quite get it right, bump into the blood not good enough, and go back and get the rest. That happens without impacting the quality of the test. We're ruining a test trip. And none of this is to say that the meter needs a lot of blood. It certainly doesn't. The drop is really small. I'm just saying you know if you fumble around or like hit the blood and then toss the thing on the floor by mistake and pick it back up. Boom, go right back. You're still doing it. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. Your blood glucose testing is very important. And you deserve accuracy. I know a lot of us have CGM is nowadays but you still need a rock solid meter art in tests number of times a week even while she wears a Dexcom G seven contour next.com forward slash juice box. There's a button there where you can actually buy your strips and your meter online through like I don't know like six different retailers. Check around see where you can get the best price contour next.com forward slash juicebox

John 25:02
I had I had two problems. So I had a lot of problems, but all I'll just talk about two of them. 9091 I was getting ready to start a, an electrical apprenticeship. Okay, it was I was actually living in San Diego. Now I don't, I'll just tell you that because I used to live in Northern California. And then, at that time in 91, I was down in San Diego for a short period of time. And then I moved back up to the Bay Area. To start this apprenticeship I was noticed in my vision one day, and I'm 23 that the peripheral vision in my right eye had a little blind spot. It's like letters would shift. And it's hard to focus on your peripheral vision. But I'm like, well, that's a trip, you know. And I found out when I did move up and start start working in the trades and going to school had cataracts, which I think is still a little bit rare for I've ever heard of cataract being a

Scott Benner 26:07
diabetes thing. Yes. Yeah.

John 26:10
And maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. But but at some point, I'm like, it's getting worse and worse. And I'm, I'm now testing. I'm like, starting to change some stuff, but not not fast enough. When I when I finally Three years later, I better get my eyes checked. Yeah, you have cataracts and and I did those surgeries and I'm like God's a piece of cake. But what happened was the doctor the doctor did that. That Seinfeld thing, or George Costanza is there and the doctor goes, Ah, he's like, what does that mean? That's that's what the doctor did. I'm like, oh, here it comes. So they couldn't see the retinas very clear until they got the cataracts out. And then then they had a clear window in and said, um, you need to go upstairs.

Scott Benner 27:06
Basal damaged that was bad they did.

John 27:09
They saw some some, you know, little hemorrhaging and all that stuff.

Scott Benner 27:13
Right? Did you get the injections? Was it too late for that? Was it a different kind of damage?

John 27:18
I got Wait, what injections?

Scott Benner 27:20
I don't know. I people are on here all the time talking about taking needles in their eyeballs. And like did any of that happen? Yeah, but

John 27:27
that was a that was a different type of injection. That was that was nerve killing alcohol. I'll get to that. It's for the Irish story. It's an Irish story.

Scott Benner 27:40
You got your you got your eyes drunk at a doctor. So pretty much yeah. Hey, let me tell you this before we move on. What causes cataracts as you age, the lenses of your eyes become less flexible, less transparent and thicker. When you have diabetes, high blood sugar levels over time can lead to structural changes in the lenses of the eye that can accelerate the development of cataracts. So there you go. Yeah. Did by any chance the cataract look like snowflakes to

John 28:09
No, I just look like cloudy. bowtie wasn't blurry and the like I played at this point in life. I was playing like adult league softball. And I wouldn't play the outfield because I go, I don't want to look stupid. Yeah. So what do I do I play I play the closest position to the batter. Third pace. I go I have fast reflexes. I can't see the ball off the bat. Like Dammit, I'm gonna catch it. And most of the time I did that or take it down this road. Yeah,

Scott Benner 28:40
I tell you there's as my son got older and older, I it was less and less fun to catch a baseball he threw at me. Yeah, and even as the person would, you know, sided. And, you know, I have like, I need reading glasses, you know, because I'm, I'm old but I mean, like, that's pretty much it. He lets go of a ball. And it almost felt like it would disappear and reappear. It was moving so fast. Yeah. And that was just I couldn't focus on it quickly enough anymore. And just appearing fastball. Yeah, like it's there. And you're like, I've got it. And then the next time you see it, it feels like it's 15 feet closer to you. Yeah. And he's like, what's wrong? I'm like, please, like, Don't Don't kill me. Please don't kill me. But I took one. I caught the edge of my glove. I didn't get completely in front. And luckily I redirected and it went like by my cheek and like caught the side of my face. Yeah. And I get what a crushed me if it hit me. So I don't know what you were thinking. You should have stopped playing softball.

John 29:41
Yeah, sure. I did eventually. But yeah, imagine.

Scott Benner 29:44
So. What's that, like you're in that office and you recognize there's something seriously wrong? Is that a? Is it like a come to Jesus moment or what happens? Well,

John 29:55
it was a literal, come to Jesus fallen and but it didn't come I'd happen yet I'm, I seen an endo who, let's face it I did not like and you know, put the denial aside put the I don't want to hear it, you know, stubbornness he was an ass. And I realized that I needed him to clear me to get the cataract surgery. My a one See, you're gonna die? Well, maybe the number will kill you but my attitude about it was it was 16 and a half. Wow. And I looked at it like it was that bad.

Scott Benner 30:38
So that's not an attitude you don't know. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't really know. When you look back and you you feel yourself saying that? Is there something you could have done differently? Or were you really that far out in the cold as far as being informed?

John 30:54
I should have owned it earlier. I mean, obviously. I mean, that's that's kind of an obvious statement. But ownership. Like that's what I like, that's my phrase in life. Now you got to own it. You got to own it, no matter what, own it good or bad. And I just didn't want to own it. I wanted someone else to own it.

Scott Benner 31:16
And if you're going to therapy, do you know why the did you feel like your parents should have helped you or? And they didn't like that day? You took it from your mom? Was it too soon?

John 31:28
I don't. I don't know. I mean, I wish there was more. Like I went I did the diabetic camps. I did the but honestly, you don't really learn it. I didn't learn anything there. You just learn like, oh, yeah, there's a bunch of other kids flopped on the ground, too. She's gonna give us some trouble today. Like, is he okay? Yeah, he's fine. It was fun. It was fun. But but it was the education side of it wasn't there yet, yet. And, you know, I needed I, I'm like, I need this cataract surgery. I need to, I need to go on with my life. And then I'm going to fix it. And then I'm going to fix it. Oh, no, I was doing better. But it wasn't quite there yet. I did find a new Endo. And by the way, he was Irish. I loved him. But he he told it to me straight. And I still had sight at this point. Not not good sight. He sat me down. He wasn't wasn't a lecture. It's like he put his hand on my shoulder and said, I've seen this. It's not going to work out well for you. I remember that going. That was the best thing. Someone could have said to me. definitive. Yeah, yeah. No shame. No, no, you know, yeah. You know, you die mess. It wasn't any of that. And he told me, he said, I think it's time that we look into finding different ways you can draw your insulin up, if you can't see well enough. And that was the first step. I'm like, yeah. All right, let's go.

Scott Benner 33:09
So what we're talking about here is, is that at one point, there's just no help. If you go back far enough. I don't, I don't even know that it's anybody's fault. I think that diabetes back then, you know, went from a thing that kills you pretty immediately to a thing that killed you a little fast, like a little slower. You know, like, you know, people come on with time, they're like, Well, I was diagnosed, they told me I wouldn't live till 40. They told me, one woman was told not even bother going to college, like, go enjoy your life. Like somebody was told, you know, and so and so that's not just right, right. Like, you can hear that today in 2023. And think that's bad advice. But back then, that might have been what they had, right? Like, which is like, look, this is what this is, it's not going to go well probably don't think about having children. They didn't know that things were going to change in that person's lifetime. They were giving them good advice, or, you know, whatever advice for that time period. That makes that make sense to me. And I know and I think that's where a lot of those like, stories come from people like you talked about with your first No, just like getting scolded and yelled at and told, like do this or you're gonna die. Because I think that's what the doctors really believed. And I talked about this with Jenny the other day, and this is going to be disjointed. But Jenny and I are we're recording a type two series right now. Yeah. And And at one point, I said to her, I'm like, I don't think like on the recording, I said, I don't think we're getting we're gonna help anybody if we're too polite about all this. You know, like, I think people really need to understand, like, what like, like what you did, and what you just said, made me feel good about that decision. Like you're like, Look, someone put it in concrete terms for me. This is where we're at. Yeah, there's no like, hopefully it'll go better. Or maybe if you're the guys like, look, here's where we're going right now. This is it. And you have to accept it and like you said, own it, and then deal Whether you can't just keep pushing it off and pretending, and I'm a little worried that we've seen an overcorrection with feelings, like, you know, back, you know, back then nobody cared like they were just Look, John do this or this bad things gonna happen and now everybody's so nice to everybody. I wonder if they're losing a little bit of what it was that helped you, which was honestly, you know, yeah, possibly here. I would you know, I hope that's not the case. But usually, historically people overcorrect. And we have the pendulum swings back too far the other direction when you're trying to fix a problem. So yeah, well, anyway, I'm sorry. So you. So he tells you, this is it, here it comes. And you're now preparing for a life of not being able to see like, what do you have any vision now? Like, what? How do you know? Nothing?

John 35:54
No, what? So when I started seeing the retina specialists, they started with the, like, all the laser treatments, and they're pretty intense, I guess, because I could feel a pinprick in the back of my eye. And then they're like, so they did all these attract dummies. And I do remember, I had four of them. So my memory is a little hazy. But I remember on the table, and, you know, like an operating room was like 20 people, but he only see one of them. And he's he's reading it to me like vitrectomy I'm like, Did you spell that? Equals? Yeah, I go, Can you spell it for me? I'm just totally Massimo. Because why I go because I don't want to wake up and find out ahead of a sec to me. I swear to you do 20 People started bursting out laughing and then boom, I was out. You're gonna. Yeah. Like I had this. It's funny because denial that sounds like denial. But I think I was owning it so much that I'm like, Well, what? What did I expect? You know? So, you know, let's, let's do it.

Scott Benner 37:05
But John, how old were you before you knew what was happening? Even though it wasn't impacting you yet? Like, when is the moment? I don't know what the question here is. It's like, you've been walking around your whole life in in in a health situation that is hurting you? And you didn't know. But then there was a day when you knew? Is it in the is it in the doctor's office with a cataract? Is it before that? Like, when are you aware versus when do you try to do something

John 37:36
I'm aware of the whole time, but awareness and, and being proactive? to different things? No, I agree. And I think every now and again, if I had a low blood sugar, and I was alone, that would be a sort of a hey, you guessed wrong today. You know, it's such a small step. And people are guessing when he guess I'm like, well, guess things better than completely. Just not taking your insulin? Maybe? I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't look back and regret it in the way. Maybe I should because it's too late. And I don't think regret turns to anything good.

Scott Benner 38:18
Yeah, no, I don't think you should regret it. I'm just trying to lay it out for people like I think you're been dealing with it, obviously, as well as anybody could be. I don't want you to go backwards and beat yourself up. I want to understand how I mean, if I'm being honest, John, what I want is for people to hear your story and then recognize in themselves that they're aware of something they should be doing, but they're not doing if I'm being 100% Honest.

John 38:42
I'll just I'll jump to at working as an electrician. Yeah, okay. Um, you know, lots of it was industrial, commercial. Big stuff. And, and it was probably the neuropathy that caught my attention more because neuropathy, there's pain involved. Yeah, in your feet. My feet were tingling, but where I felt it was in my abdomen. Oh, no kidding. You like I could, I could someone could punch me in the stomach and I'd laugh but if I was in a, in a like a, my buddy had a CJ five we're in the jeep and I'm wearing a t shirt and the t shirt flapping against my stomach hurt.

Scott Benner 39:26
Just because of the nerve endings on your skin like to feel tired. Yeah, yeah. Do you have gastroparesis?

John 39:33
I don't believe so. That's interesting. Now that's gone. That that stuff and that's all gone. Yeah, I have a couple of numb spots like under some toes. But that's been like that for 25 years. It hasn't changed. And so when pains involved I'm like, huh let's let's start

Scott Benner 39:59
trying Trying to make paints though. What were you talking about earlier about injecting alcohol into your eyes.

John 40:06
So So, losing my eyesight was not the hardest thing I was going through, the hardest thing I was going through was because of all the surgeries, I went from being able to recognize someone in a room to being completely blind in about six months. I had four major surgeries in that time, my body was shutting down, like bodies are not made to go under the knife that that much. So when I came out of it, I had the most excruciating pain in my eyeballs. I could even imagine. I couldn't, I didn't even care. I mean, it was still under this doctors, you know, the endos help, and it was doing better. But all of a sudden, I can't eat. I can't eat because I'm, I'm in so much pain. And they're they're just, they're pumping these pills down my throat. And I'm like, I'm not gonna survive, I lost 45 pounds. Like, in that time?

Scott Benner 41:12
What were the four surgeries? The vitrectomy. They just those nothing like nothing on the rest of your body. But just those on your eyes just speech up like that.

John 41:23
Yeah, and I could describe the pain to you. But I don't know if you really want to hear it.

Scott Benner 41:28
I mean, we've already maligned Italians and Irish people, we could talk about the pain if you like, I can take it. All right. And

John 41:35
I actually told this to someone recently, they're like, Okay, that's enough. So it was like, somebody took my testicles and put it in my eye sockets, and then put a vise grip around them. And so the alcohol shots were just to kill pain, and it worked for a day.

Scott Benner 41:57
So you'd go to the doctor, they do these injections, and you'd have relief for a day and then it would come back. Yeah. And I come out with like, huge Blackeye for one day's worth of refuge. Yeah. Yeah. Did that ever subside?

John 42:11
There was a moment, okay, there was a moment at my mom's house before I think I had one surgery left to do, and I shouldn't have done it, I should have just throw the talent. But I'm like, I'm sitting there. I had to move back in with mom. And which is fine. When she helped. And I couldn't draw my insulin up yet. So I'm sitting there gone. Yeah, I'm never gonna see again, like, and I had, you know, had some anger issues earlier in life. And, but it was different. It was, this is where the attitude change happen. And I'm sitting there going, you know, how you like people, they talk about near death experiences in their life flashes before their eyes. It was wasn't quite like that. But it was like the last five years of my life, kinda, it was like a slideshow. Now, I still had light perception, but I couldn't see. But it was like these clear, vivid, really stupid things I'd done in life, like, you know, rolled my truck few times and just bad situations I was in. And it was like, it was kind of rolling through. And I'm like, What am I thinking about this now? And, you know, you talked about this come to Jesus moment earlier. Yeah. I'm gonna be honest with you. I think God smacked me and said, Hey, dump it, you know, you know, all those times. I was there. And I'm like, Oh, that's it. Like, that's it. Like that's, you know, we grew up going to church, but it was just that it was just going to church. Like I didn't, yeah, say the prayer. I man cool. Let's go. But that was the moment where I go, like, god dammit. Grace is real. That's a real thing. Grace, and I just go and I'm like, Alright, and that's that was that was the attitude change. And you know, I wait for people talk about prayer and prayer. And I'll pray for this. Pray for that. And I, I believe in that stuff. But Scott, you got to imagine the guy about to lose his sight. And as a brand new foil drive and dirt bikes. Yeah, there's a lot going away. I'm praying. I call it the great bargaining table in the sky, like God, give me one eye. And in a year, you can take a toe. I mean, just stupid stuff like that. And, and what I understood in that moment is a quick moment and it wasn't like, I saw bright light or I wasn't elevated out of my chair. It wasn't anything weird. It was just this moment, right? Change something I got instead of give me like, make me make me you know, people like what does that mean? And examples like God, give me a great wife. Well, how about God make me a great husband. And that's it's a it's a subtle shift. But that's where that's where it did change for me like not just diabetes wise, but life lifestyle?

Scott Benner 45:06
Yeah. You experienced that, like a clarity of thinking? Yes, yeah. And was that precipitated by the knowledge that this loss was coming and there was no way around it?

John 45:19
What I lost my sight, I felt the biggest relief I've ever felt.

Scott Benner 45:26
Okay, do you know why?

John 45:28
Because I was, I was trying to carry this around. I didn't want people to know, I couldn't see well.

Scott Benner 45:36
Oh, you're pretending? A lot. Yeah. And

John 45:39
I'm like, Well, hell, if I'm gonna go blind, you might as well take it all. Because there's no denial about that.

Scott Benner 45:47
What is the shift? Like, going from some site? To no site? Like, how could you live with your mom when it happens? I assume you don't live with your mom anymore? No, we're not married?

John 45:59
Yeah, we have a son. And it, it was easy. It was the pain that was killing me. I'm like, can we get rid of the pain? And that that goes into this whole other chapter? And I'm like, Well, I don't know, this might be an after dark thing. I'll let you decide. But so the pills kept coming. And I think you probably know where I'm going with this. Yeah, I imagine I do. Oh, my God, on and off for years on and off any kind of congestion a call? Like, oh, my gosh, like, my eyes are killing me. And so you know, Vikon left and right. And during that time, I met my girlfriend who's my wife now? And no, I've never seen it. And it was just kind of off and on. And then. So we got married, you know, few years after that. So then we're up to like, 2003. And first of all, anyone listening who's who's engaged or going to get married, don't do a major surgery, the same year of your marriage, because what happened and don't do it on or on your wife's birthday, either? Which things I did? I had my eyes removed. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Yeah, they it's like, it's kind of like a Halloween pumpkin. They just slice them open, suck everything out. And they put marbles in. So I literally have marbles on my head, which some people are like, yeah. So are you gonna have to make some bleeps and stuff? Oh,

Scott Benner 47:37
that's fine. If you're gonna say stuff like that you curse as much as you want.

John 47:45
What it did, and this is where it got real tricky what it took acute pain and made a crock. Okay. So, you know, picture like a stabbing pain and all of a sudden that pain moves around your head. And you don't know where you don't know where it's radiating from. Like, there are days My teeth hurt. I'm like, Why did my teeth hurt? That's just the nerves. The nerves are all confused. And yeah, and that's, that's when a doctor and I'm not gonna blame doctors ever, ever. Because, you know, part of ownership is like, well, you're asking for it. So someone had the bright idea to, Hey, there's this oxycontin stuff. Here we go. Oh, wow. Here we go. And, and I'll just I'll go through this fast. But they there's a line between drug dependency and drug addiction. And I crossed that line. Yeah. Are sure

Scott Benner 48:45
you're using hillbilly heroin? Is that what they call it? That's what they

John 48:51
call it. I remember giving it up.

Scott Benner 48:53
No kidding. Is that how when?

John 48:56
Yeah, they've changed that now. But and then the fentanyl and the the methadone and, and, you know, and I'm a what's funny is you and I have this common like, I'm a stay at home dad during this time. And I know it sounds nuts to manage it during the day, which, please, no, I did. It wasn't till my wife got home and it's like, Okay, now it's time. You know? You kind of can't live that way.

Scott Benner 49:26
Yeah, yeah. So you you manage the pain all day long, and then got away from it when somebody was there for your son.

John 49:33
I took the very minimum amount, okay. And she she had she has a job that she could work from home a couple days a week or get home by, you know, four o'clock. But as time went on, I'm like, I have to stop. I have to stop. I didn't care about pain anymore. It's like, pain is much better than withdrawal. Yeah. And so I just so 2009 Now, my son's four I called the Stanford Pain Clinic. And they had this I heard about it through someone else. And I called them up and got this, you know, consultation visit and I show up and I tell him everything I'm taking, like they're writing everything down. And they're like, what's, what's your goal? I go, What do you mean? Well, people come in here, what they do is they reset the pain sensors in the brain. They give you all these weird trippy cocktails and, and it kind of resets all your pain sensors. And they said, Some people leave here. Taking half Some people leave here, taking an eighth quarter. I go, Oh, no, you don't get it. I go, I'm done. I'm leaving here with Tylenol and ibuprofen, like, I'm done. And they all my wife said they all looked at each other and scribbled something again. Okay, when can you start?

Scott Benner 50:53
What do you think they screw? Lunatic?

John 50:56
Like? No, like, get him in now?

Scott Benner 51:01
Oh, he's ready. Oh, I see. Yes. Oh, I see. I see. I see. And that that worked.

John 51:08
10 days done. To kidding. Yep.

Scott Benner 51:13
They make my knees stop hurting.

John 51:16
Yeah, it's funny after that, you know, at this point, I'm, you know, I'm like, 40s. And I cannot and I'm like, Well, I have a lot of other pains. I never really knew I

Scott Benner 51:26
had, oh, all of a sudden you were aware kind of my back and

John 51:30
all sudden, I can feel you know, like cheese. Yeah.

Scott Benner 51:33
Oh, you were covering a lot up with those meds. Oh, my God

John 51:37
so much. And I do real quick. I do remember my first night in there. And I was waiting. I don't know, probably too long for the special cocktail to get on. And so the doctor comes in. And he's, you know, here's a cool guy. And he's like reading my stuff. And he leaves and he comes back and he goes, You were taking what like, finally it clicked in his head when he looked at what I was taking and how much was I was honest, I revealed it all. He's like, Are you kidding me?

Scott Benner 52:12
Wow. And no problems getting the meds back then. Right? You could just they fill those prescriptions endlessly, then

John 52:19
then they would and I made sure and this is what, you know, when when you're in, you're in. I told every doctor I saw I said, Look, I'm done. I went through this. I go, I don't. I won't ask you for anything. But I'm just letting you know that this is not part of my life anymore. You never went backward and off. I had two other cert. I had a knee surgery and a couple of shoulder. Shoulder surgeries. And yeah, there were some and it was like, you know, a few and done. Yeah, like I didn't, I didn't keep it. I didn't refill it. I didn't it was I hand it to my wife. I go give me two if I ask but you know, I'm not gonna,

Scott Benner 52:58
I did my shoulder rack reconstructed. And at first the guy is like, you know, here's the meds and I was like, I'll be alright. And he's like, you not gonna be alright. And I was like, No, I will. And we got home from the from the surgery center. And I looked at my wife and I was like it. I'm like, give me one of those pills. And I don't do anything and I took it and the minute I could move to like the step down whatever the guide said the step down bottle was, I was excited to get off of the pills I was on. Because I just they messed I mean, I couldn't feel how badly my shoulder hurt. But, you know, I felt messed up otherwise.

John 53:37
Yeah, I'd say one of the biggest things when I when I did the thing at Stanford and came home I'm now dealing with my blood sugar's were really high. I never had to deal with that. Like did you know I don't care what people say those pills lower your your blood sugar's

Scott Benner 53:52
your anxieties. There's probably don't have any anxiety, right? Yeah, there's no adrenaline, like, you're just all like, relaxed. And yeah, it's it has a lot to do with that. Well, how do you manage your diabetes today? Like what technology to use?

John 54:05
So I have a G six. I have a tandem. And that same doctor back in 2002. He was like, I think, I think you should be on the pump. And I was like, what? I can use a pump. And he's like, he's kind of like, Dude, you can figure anything out. So let's go and it was the old mini med. I think the five weight and very mechanical. Like, I could change an infusion set along easily. Okay, like, you just you pull it out yet fill it up, you lick it and pray and squeeze it through and go. And then I moved to the the paradigm a little bit harder. But it was still dealing with three buttons and I by this time I was it was right before I got married. And so my wife was helping me when I needed it. I had instruction written out for the for that pump just in case I got in a situation. And then moving down south here. I'm like, I gotta I gotta find a doctor. I found a good one I think. And he's he's all about like, doing what works for me. He's not stuck to one or the other pump companies. He's just like, I want you to try this. I think you can

Scott Benner 55:22
help. How do you manage? Like, I mean, seeing the screen and knowing what you're doing? How does all that work?

John 55:29
So when I met with the first rep, I, she brought one in for me to check out and, and I asked her, she had an iPhone. I said, Yeah, I think I asked her. Do you have an iPhone six? Yeah, I go. Do you mind if I check it out? Like, I go, or do you mind turning your voice over? Because I wanted to see the app that the pump I was playing with wasn't connected to her, thankfully. But I go, I just want to check out the app. She's trying to turn on VoiceOver and I go here, let me see your phone, like hits here. I go turn VoiceOver on. And her phone starts talking. She's like, Oh, my God, I had no idea did that. And I look at the app. And I'm like, Okay, you're at nine. feeling okay. Right. Like I'm asking her how she feels. I just wanted to see the app. And to see what, what I can see for the app. Now the Dexcom. I've been on the Dexcom for over two years. And that that was great. It's all the app and you know, I could that's easy. tanam little bit harder. And I just go I want to be able to Bolus with the quick Bolus button. And then obviously, I have to clear notifications. That's the only time I have to use the touchscreen. Do you use the algorithm?

Scott Benner 56:48
Yeah, usually? Yeah, using that?

John 56:50
Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Benner 56:52
What's your agency? No.

John 56:55
Six, eight was the last Wow,

Scott Benner 56:57
that's exciting. How long do you think it's been since you saw 16 and a half aliens?

John 57:02
I have had moments in time of down around six, you know, the last 20 years, but but then they jump way back up for whatever reason, whether it's pain related, or, you know, I had moments but what I noticed since being on the tandem, I started a little over a year ago. I think I was a eight too. And then went to it. And I wasn't always at an eight to it's just for me, stuff just fluctuated so much. Jump up and down. But it went to like a seven, two and a six, eight. And so the trajectory is looking good. Like it's always the direction right? And I'm where you're at.

Scott Benner 57:45
How do you evaluate? I mean, the CGM is not is does it? Excuse me? Does it lack value for you? Because you can't really like infer from the graphs. So does someone do that? Who are you? Are you just like it for knowing what your blood sugar is? In the moment? It's both

John 58:03
I have to I have to remember trends. And I do pop on the clarity app to look. Yeah, you're right. I can't see the graph. But I can remember like, wow, this time every day. I might my numbers go up. At this time I go down, I go, Well, I'm taking enough insulin, that's a Basal thing. It's got to be and I had just a small surgery over the summer, nothing big. But I had to fast for a day. I'm like, perfect. I sat there and watched the Dexcom like I have no food. Yeah. And I saw like, even though the early afternoon, I'm like a cam creeping up to 150. Okay, with food, even even Bolus incorrectly, that's going to be a bigger problem later. So I was able to see it and go, Okay, I'm gonna jump it up here down around noon. You know, for a couple hours and but I can't make those changes on my own. Yeah, right. That that was my original thing about coming on here. Like, you know, I talked about the iPhone and the voiceover. I'm like, I always wished pump companies could throw that little voice chip in.

Scott Benner 59:21
And let you just say, you know, this button does this I just clicked. So on a pump. The way it would work I'm imagining is you'd want it to be like you'd click it and it would say menu and then you'd say it down and it would tell you what submenu and then you would know where you were constantly before you push the button.

John 59:40
How the iPhone works is you turn VoiceOver on. It's what's funny is watching a sighted person trying to use an iPhone with VoiceOver because they're just completely lost. Because what you have to do is I scroll my finger and I'm like okay, messages. The last thing you type in and out CES now you can move your finger anywhere on the screen and double tap real quick, it'll open messages because it'll remember the last thing you touched. Okay? And I open it reply to so and so I double tap on that, and then the keyboard pops up. It's the same thing like, hey, find the H. quickly tap it twice.

Scott Benner 1:00:21
That's every letter happens that way with VoiceOver.

John 1:00:26
Yes, but when it's like anything, it's like, you get good at it. Yeah, I'm not going to win any texting competitions of speed. But, you know, I tried Siri for a while. And I'm like, wow, Siri really sucks.

Scott Benner 1:00:41
I was gonna call this episode on it. But maybe texting champion will be the way I will be the way to go.

John 1:00:52
I don't have any awards. But in my mind, I'm good. Manners.

Scott Benner 1:00:57
Can I ask you a little bit about like meeting a person after you've lost your sight and telling them you have died? Because you're like, you're a double whammy? Right? Like

John 1:01:09
I must be good luck.

Scott Benner 1:01:11
I'll tell you what, I'm handsome. And I the reason I know that is because the lady married me after I had diabetes. And I was blind. And this blind the right word, by the way.

John 1:01:20
I don't care. I really don't care blind, visually impaired. And I don't know the difference between the two. Some might but I get it. And I don't.

Scott Benner 1:01:32
But, but well, how does that like? How do you somebody set you up on a date?

John 1:01:36
No, I was I was working with high school youth. And no, she was not a student. Let me get that out of the way. Right right away.

Scott Benner 1:01:47
Tell a story about how we got a high school junior today. That was like what's happening?

John 1:01:53
Like, I really don't like this guy now. I was doing stuff with youth and she was she come to this church, in this coastal town. And and now we have two different stories of when we met, she swears she met me at a mutual friend's house. And I know she was there. But I ever talked to her. I go that doesn't count. Apparently, I'm gonna embarrass her. Now. She went on some work trip, and told one of her best friends like, I think I met the guy I'm gonna marry.

Scott Benner 1:02:26
No kidding. Yeah, look at you.

John 1:02:29
And then later on, we started doing stuff. And so I'm, you know, I'm pretty good on a computer now. And this little funny stories. We like we went out to lunch or something and more dating yet, but I'm like, well, here, do you want to write your email address down? I can have someone look at it, whatever. You know, I think I might have had her number. So she, I have to say her name. And I know she won't care.

Scott Benner 1:02:59
That's why it's so

John 1:03:03
name's Kyrsten. And I'm like, so she had a website. It's not there anymore. So go ahead. And look, it's not there. But it was kyrsten@kearson.com. So I'm like, I'm gonna send her an email that night. And I'm like, No one's home. And I'm like I spoke Kiersten. So I started typing in. You would not? Or maybe you would believe the site that popped up and I'm like, Oh, my God, she's a porn star.

Scott Benner 1:03:31
Finally, things are going my way.

John 1:03:35
Like, I obviously spelled it wrong. This is why you just don't type random things. Yeah, and hit Enter.

Scott Benner 1:03:43
So don't do that. I was at a job once. And I needed an image. I was doing graphic design, I needed an image from like a government building. And I typed, I think I something.com. And it should have been.org. And that did not go well. And it was so bad that I had to go immediately to my employer and say, Listen, I need to tell you what just happened. Because I think if this comes up in a report later on, I'm going to be in trouble. Right and and so that's as crazy as it was that the White House has has since like, wrestled like that that link actually go somewhere else now. But it didn't then and it freaked me out. So anyway. I know how you feel is what I'm getting at. Yeah, so

John 1:04:43
we I mean, we dated a few years and we were old. I mean, not super all but we're in our you know, probably mid 30s. And we just we kind of have this. We knew what we were getting into like we're both like All or no doubt screwing around? And yeah, like we had we had calls and you know, the marriage question came up. We talked about it, like, and then, you know, finally popped the question. So

Scott Benner 1:05:14
it's interesting. So you don't know what she looks like at all right

John 1:05:17
now. But what's funny is we've been, we were actually at the same high school prom, she went to another high school in the same town. And I did, but I went with a girl that went to her school. So we're actually at the same prom. We're at like, three YouTube concerts to get knocked together, but at the same concerts, and so we're places here during life. So maybe in the back of my mind, I've seen her I don't know,

Scott Benner 1:05:43
do you do a thing where you do people describe, like famous people that you would have recollection of, like, how do you or do you just do it by touching their face? And that's it? How do you handle like understanding

John 1:05:58
that, like people like come in contact with or Yeah, like

Scott Benner 1:06:02
if you and I met, and we were trying to give you context, when I pick somebody famous from before you lost your sight and say, Hey, I kinda look like this. Or

John 1:06:13
I don't think you want me touching your face.

Scott Benner 1:06:15
I don't know. You seem nice enough. I'm worried you're due at one time as your hands are clean. But but you don't fall for that one again. John, it's my face. You'll be fine. Come here. Listen, you understand embarrassment. You're 40 Niners fan.

So I know. I'll get to it.

I want to know how you watch football.

John 1:06:40
I do. Which is funny because I listened to your podcast on the Odyssey app. And I got the Odyssey app to listen to the Northern California sports talk stuff. And it feels weird, though. Because if it's a game I care about, like, if it's another game, I want the my radio guys. Okay, and so that was free for a while then I had to get a VPN and it's like 10 bucks a month. And I'm like, it's worth it. Other sports? If it's on TV, it's fine. Like I can follow it well enough. Except basketball. I can't watch basketball on TV. Like they talk about everything but the game. You need this false good.

Scott Benner 1:07:20
Yeah. Baseball play by play is amazing. Yeah. Like usually, two guys do a good job or whoever does a good job. Yeah.

John 1:07:28
Well, that's not. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, we actually got engaged at a Giants game.

Scott Benner 1:07:35
San Francisco Giants. Yeah. You don't want to just learn that my podcast is on Odyssey.

John 1:07:42
There you go. Sounds good for something.

Scott Benner 1:07:46
I was like, I don't think I want honestly.

John 1:07:51
I'll figure it out. If you don't now, if I have to. That's just what pops up for the week. If I see something on the Facebook group, I'll just do a Google search. And it'll tell I'll find it that way. If I see a title, or a topic, and then I'll just download it.

Scott Benner 1:08:10
That's really interesting. I don't Yeah. Does it have? Does it have all the episodes?

John 1:08:15
I don't know how to find older episodes on there. Okay. It has the most current like, there's usually five or six. Cool.

Scott Benner 1:08:24
Well, that's great. Excellent. I honestly use that that and I had to stop myself from going get out of here. Really? It's like, I'm like, let me look.

John 1:08:33
Yeah. Back to the what do you look like thing people have to know they have the cut off is about 1996.

Scott Benner 1:08:42
Yeah, right. Yeah. And then you say

John 1:08:45
someone that's popular now. I'm like,

Scott Benner 1:08:47
so you can watch a baseball game because you've seen a baseball game? Yes, I

John 1:08:53
had. And that's that's a great point about being blind. I I had years of sight. So I know how I know how people behind the wheel are mostly idiots. So I, I can anticipate. Yeah, don't trust that guy. No. Yeah, that that motors revenue a little high. I'm gonna wait. I'll wait here

Scott Benner 1:09:12
at the corner for a second. Yeah. And so have you ever tried watching a sport that you had never seen prior to being excited?

John 1:09:19
Yeah, we're in. We're in Ireland a couple of years ago. And they have this giant like, nationwide hurling playoffs and term and I'm just like, it's just a lot of screaming and I don't I don't really get this game yet. Everybody was into it.

Scott Benner 1:09:36
That's how I feel when I watched soccer.

John 1:09:42
won the World Cup was on I said, my sisters and my son, my nephews were into it. And they had it on the TV. And I go, Hey, can you turn the sound up so I can check and follow the action? I'm like, Oh, wait, it's soccer.

Scott Benner 1:09:55
So I'm just gonna run back and forth and nothing's gonna happen.

John 1:10:00
I'm sorry, soccer fans. Oh, my son. I

Scott Benner 1:10:02
tried to watch that list game. And we just sat there incredulous. We were like what is happening? Like, when is something going to happen? Yeah, I know. I know. Listen, I don't want to hear about I know people love soccer and I'm whatever. It's just I didn't grow up with it. And it just doesn't grab me. But anyway, I'm sure people are like, But baseball is boring. Like, that's fine. Don't like baseball. I don't care. Anyway, so how do you? I mean, obviously, audio is a big thing for you. But still, how do you find a podcast?

John 1:10:35
I was on a different URL. For years, I was on a different Facebook group. It was a tandem room. And everyone kept talking about this juice box thing. Everyone the bad? Ah, yeah, just I'm like, let me let me try it. Let me just did a quick search and boom or so. And I think somebody put a link and I just hit it. And like, ah, like, Okay, how do I listen? You know, because I've obviously know what a podcast is. I've been on a podcast, but I've never really listened to podcasts. And what's funny is it took me What 40? I don't know. 4647 years of type one is like, Well, yeah, there's a whole community out there. Be interested.

Scott Benner 1:11:28
Yeah. And learn more about it. Oh, that's really, that's really interesting. Yeah, I know, people are so kind about how they talk about the show. I mean, generally speaking, there's I did get a review recently. I don't think the lady likes me very much. But that's okay. And, but But generally speaking, like, listeners are very kind about how they share the show. Yeah. And and it really is how it ends up growing. But what did you expect when you got there? Like, I mean, you don't you can't care that much about them. I'm talking for you. But do you care much about management talk?

John 1:12:00
Yeah, I care. Like, I guess I break it down in two ways. There's educational and there's stories like mine is going to be a story. Yeah. I mean, there's some education in it, but but I think it's interesting people's paths. But the stuff I've really gotten into, you know, is the stuff on, you know, thyroid and what's the the iron deficiency stuff? Because I see a nephrologist. I mean, you could probably imagine what my kidneys look like, but they've been, they've been stable. Like for for many years? Well, it just so much damage was done early. That, um, you know, it's hard with the CIQ. Sometimes, because with compromised kidneys, insulin can have a prolonged half life. Oh, I see. No kidding. So yeah, so even though I have zero on board, I might have three units on board. Like I've discovered that probably discovered that 10 years ago, the insulin I never knew it.

Scott Benner 1:13:07
Insulin seems to have a longer effect with you in time,

John 1:13:10
let's say yeah. And usually on the back end,

Scott Benner 1:13:12
do you spend any time wondering what's gonna happen next, if something's gonna happen next? No,

John 1:13:19
no, I, it's kind of like when I lost my sight. If I thought if I thought a week ahead, I get all jumbled up. And I know it's such a sports cliche one day at a time. It's, it's so stupid, but it works so well. Like, you go, I'm gonna I'm going to deal with it. You know, dialysis is my future. I'll deal with it. You know? I don't want it and I'm doing all I can to, to not do that. But yeah, you can drive yourself crazy with anything. What's What am I gonna look like in a year from now? I don't know.

Scott Benner 1:13:55
Yeah, just do the best you can take care of yourself and hope everything how about the pain in your you said in your abdomen is gone? So that stuff is is cleared from just bring your blood sugar's down? Yes. Okay. How do you eat you have an eating style that you, you maintain, or just whatever you're thinking about,

John 1:14:16
generally two meals a day. I get up and I don't, I have a lot of insomnia. And that's just kind of this whole other thing that I noticed my numbers can be off, sleeps an amazing thing. You know, and just not sleeping can cause your learner's to go off. But I think that's more of the blindness stuff. Like I have no like perception. And my body is like, my clock is like,

Scott Benner 1:14:44
Oh, you don't have a circadian rhythm at all. Yes, yes. There's nothing you can do about that.

John 1:14:51
More drugs. And I'm like, You know what? I take enough stuff. Okay. Just it's not what happens is probably twice a month. I get into this rhythm of falling asleep at 345 am. And I, I try not to sleep till noon. Sometimes I get two hours and I go, okay. Okay, the the sooner I get up the quicker my

Scott Benner 1:15:15
you're bound to come back. Yeah, you can get back to bed at a reasonable time. How do you? I mean, what about I hate to ask like this, but like you can't Can you work?

John 1:15:27
Well, a lot of the stuff I did with the youth that was all volunteer. I did a run with the California State rehab, you know, for to find a job. I'm going to tell you, son, I was not impressed. Didn't feel that I didn't have to work. But I'll give you a quick example. Like I signed up, said, Okay, you go to San Francisco, like, for three days, all day, I got a ride up there and figured out where I was going in the building. And I'm sitting there, and this guy comes in, he starts giving me all these different tests. Now he's writing stuff down. But then he comes in with an algebra test. Now I know algebra. But when you can't see algebra, you don't know algebra. I'm like, Are you serious? Because yeah, we got to find it. I go in it, it was actually multiple choice. And I'm like, Alright, see? Like, like, I'm not done. This is ridiculous. Like, there was no there was no computer anything. I thought it'd be more like, what can you do on a computer? Yeah, I mean, I was I was a forum moderator for 12 years, without eyesight, right? Like, I can do anything on a computer. But the state of California says, We're not making a difference for anyone. And we're gonna give you an algebra test. All right. How did I do?

Scott Benner 1:16:53
You don't just lie to me.

John 1:16:56
Yeah. So I looked into that. And then I, again, the volunteer stuff was great. We moved down here about four years ago. And so it's kind of like restarting everything over. And then of course, the big COVID hit, and it's like, alright, well, yeah, this will don't have to work. I. Yeah, there's stuff I'd like to do. Not sure what it is. But do you

Scott Benner 1:17:19
have that thought? Like, like, there's something you should be? How do you how do you feel your day, I guess, was my question.

John 1:17:27
Exercise? That's big. Reading music, and just just the normal stuff around the house. Yeah, dishes. All of it. How old's your son? He just turned 18. Oh, my gosh.

Scott Benner 1:17:41
That sounds like Yeah, yeah. I reminded myself a couple of times to this story that you've been married a while, haven't you?

John 1:17:47
Yeah. 20 years. Next month? Yeah. Well,

Scott Benner 1:17:49
good for you. Any worry about? I didn't ask you. Do you have any other autoimmune stuff? It's that you said thyroid at one point.

John 1:17:58
Yeah, I thought you might ask me that. And I quickly jumped on my medical stuff online and TSH, right. Yeah. I think it's point eight three. Wow. Yeah, they've

Scott Benner 1:18:11
got that manage, though. So you have I've

John 1:18:13
been on Synthroid and now it's the thyroxin stuff and, and I remember like, Doctor years ago was like, always get Synthroid, nothing else. Yeah. And so I asked this doctor that question, he says, well, that the other generics have caught up. And I've listened to the one you were talking to an endo about the shape and color of these things. I'm like, that's, that's a good thing to know. Because since I've been down here, the shape or about the color, but the shape is always the same. So

Scott Benner 1:18:50
So you have shirts the same man because you have hypothyroidism you have type one. Anemia.

John 1:18:55
Yeah, a little bit. Little.

Scott Benner 1:18:57
Okay. Does your son have anything? No, no. Is it I have such a we're coming towards the end. I saved what I think is the worst question for the end title. That's okay. Awesome. Awesome. I'm sorry.

John 1:19:11
I'm gonna I'm a fortnight fan forever. No,

Scott Benner 1:19:14
no, John, I've stopped myself three times from asking you

John 1:19:19
what you guys deserve no.

Scott Benner 1:19:21
Question about the football now you're making me feel as we'll get to how the Eagles destroyed the Niners in a second okay. How God How does it feel to have never seen your son?

John 1:19:36
That's, that can be tough. I ain't gonna lie to you that that can be because people, people can be brutal without being brutal. And so I know my son during part of his life look like so my nephews, but a lot of those nephews I haven't seen either And so, you know, God, I love Facebook, but my wife posted a picture of him. Me and her, three of us or something. And someone that I don't know that knows my wife. Oh, he looks so much like your family. Oh my gosh, like, does he look like anyone or your husband's family? And I'm like, you suck.

Scott Benner 1:20:26
Thank you. This is I don't know this person. You suck. This has been fun. Thank you.

John 1:20:33
There's no malice. Oh, sure. Oh, my God. He's People say he, yeah, there's pictures I put up for a profile picture. And I put a picture of me up from eighth grade. And people are like, Oh, there he is.

Scott Benner 1:20:48
Yeah, see it? I never think my son looks like me. And then I saw a photo of him. Kind of like hamming it up as a freshman in college, next to a picture of me like five years old. And we look oddly similar. And yeah, and I, of course, I'm adopted. So I don't have any. I've never known anyone who's looked like me. So I don't see it the same way. And I think I kind of feel like no one looks like me. So I don't even see myself and my kids sometimes. Right. Right. But it's hard. I mean, it's hard to miss sometimes, you know,

John 1:21:21
but sometimes the mannerisms kick in to that home add more. Yeah. Now last night on the on the live thing, people like, oh, I finally see you and I'm like, I wanted to go, what does he look like? I guess I want to talk to him tomorrow.

Scott Benner 1:21:36
I asked him, I don't even know. I couldn't even begin to tell you what I look like I have no idea. I think my head's too big. I have a critique of the creation or whoever did this to me

John 1:21:46
and asked me what's wrong with you?

Scott Benner 1:21:49
I don't know. I think I have brown wavy hair. That's, I mean, I keep it not short, not long. So I used to have tighter curls when I was younger. They're wavy or now that I'm that I'm dyeing my potty skin and my body is giving it up. I am not thin, I'm not overweight. I am not attractive. And I'm not ugly. I think I'm an average looking not bad guy. My wife told me I was handsome at lunch the other day and I was like what? Like I don't even I don't feel that about myself if that's true. Alright, five now if you've been to

John 1:22:27
therapy, because I'm hearing a lot of what you're not

Scott Benner 1:22:30
know, I don't know how to say what I am. As far as like visually speaking.

John 1:22:34
I mean, this is described like Bernie Cozaar I don't

Scott Benner 1:22:37
know. I you know what, that's fair. I look like Bernie Cozaar but I'm right handed. And but you know what? I don't look like Bernie Kosar jump, but that's not oddly far off. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. Oh, that's very interesting that you did that visual

John 1:22:55
memory that I don't I couldn't even describe a Bernie Kosar looks like but I you know, I saw him in like 1982 or something.

Scott Benner 1:23:02
Yeah, I'm gonna put Hold on a second. No one else if you're driving you don't look for a picture. Bernie Cozaar obviously also, most people are like, I have no idea who that is. quarterback of the browns. Back when they sucked less. Yes. Not that they didn't suck. They just suck the last two. I write Bernie Cozaar I'm looking at a picture on what he played for the dolphins because he was older. Boy, you know what, John? Yeah, okay, not that's not oddly far off. Okay, I'm gonna get a Bernie crows are Jersey CFTC.

John 1:23:35
If I could make money doing stuff like that. The awesome.

Scott Benner 1:23:39
Also not for nothing, but CBS News reports. The Browns have cut ties with Bernie Cozaar after he made a $19,000 bet on the team Season Finale versus the Steelers. Oh, I wouldn't bet on the Steelers to the analyst on the pregame show. I guess he does the pregame analysis. Just 16 years old. How about that? Bernie? You can't bet on sports when you're working on buddy. Yeah, that doesn't work. You can't do that. All right now. In fairness, when I was growing up and probably the way you became a Niners fan, they were a monster right? Joe Montana, then Montana leaves you think oh, they're never gonna be good again. And the next guy is just as good if not better, seemed unfair, even right. But the other night now, not that you guys haven't been through a thing this season like with the quarterbacks getting hurt in every Sure, sure. But I'm gonna tell you, John, the kid, the injury the kid got I. I mean, when's the last time you heard anybody get a UCL injury in a football game? I've never heard of a UCL right. It's a base. It's a baseball. It's a baseball entry. And all I can tell you is he had his arm was cocked back and the guy came in, slapped at the ball caught enough of his forearm that it just yanked his elbow back like that. And it sprung out these young kids still like I mean, I know he's a big strong athlete, but he's I Don't know how people think about he's still young, his body's not even mature all the way yet. And that was it. And they played. Not that you don't know. But did he throw one pass after they? Then they brought the next guy in. Who by the

John 1:25:12
way was Josh Johnson is played for like 48 teams.

Scott Benner 1:25:15
Yeah. And he's been in the league 20 years. Yeah. And by the way, but somehow it looks like he's 23 years old, so good for him. But like, because they you're looking him in the face like he's been in the league 19 years and like, that's not possible. He's 25 Like, what are we talking about? But apparently just the young looking guy, and he was outmatched, which he should have been like, don't get me wrong, but the Eagles fly around on defense, and he looked like a deer in headlights.

John 1:25:40
Oh, yeah, you guys were I mean, in all phases. You guys are better. You guys are better. You guys are better all year. Like we flew up and went to the Christmas Eve game. Like that. Song gave us tickets. And that was a lot of fun. My son met Jerry Rice, by the way that day, not a picture that. He said, No, I was happy. I was super happy, but better, just better. And they you know, they say homefield advantage is a thing.

Scott Benner 1:26:10
Also, and I'll tell you that, contextually the end of last season, I was one of those people who was like, We got to replace Jalen Hertz. Like he's not going to do it. And then I don't know what that kid did over the over the offseason, but he came back in like a pickup a focused person, you know, and he's just he doesn't have I don't think he's got an even a terrific arm. He's a new age quarterback. And I think I think you're gonna see them pluck as many guys like him out of college as they can move him forward. He's he's just it's it's interesting and fun to watch him play. But anyway, you know, once they gave the concussion to the backups, backup to the backups, backups, backup, you know, like to the fourth quarterback you guys have used this year. I'll use check was next in line. Well, I thought they were gonna put but they let McCaffrey throw a pass. That's like how? There's a screen. Yeah. And by the way, he missed. He hit the field, but there was no one in the television image when the ball hit. Where it was.

John 1:27:14
Especially went down. I'm like, Alright, what do you guys want to do?

Scott Benner 1:27:17
You know, and it was a peewee football game. After that. They handed off the ball until the game was over. Remember Eric Allen? Sure.

John 1:27:26
This is a kind of a name drop. And I actually didn't ever meet him. But my son played varsity football last couple years when Eric Allen sons was on his team. Really? Yeah, because he went, Eric Allen went to the high school here. My son goes to

Scott Benner 1:27:42
Eric Allen returned an interception for like, 101 yards when I was a kid. It was Oh against Boomer, one of the craziest things I ever saw in my life

John 1:27:51
when Boomer was just the chats, right? Yes, I

Scott Benner 1:27:53
believe. Yeah, I believe so. It was just amazing. It was it's, it was just incredible. You know, I met Troy Vincent a Best Buy once. Okay. It was ridiculous. We were walking out together, and like walking to our cars. And I looked at him I went Troy Vincent, and he goes, What's up? And I was like, hey, and then we just walked.

John 1:28:14
That's the best way to do it. Right.

Scott Benner 1:28:18
Like, that's insane, like, the quarterback for and it was like he was still playing. You don't I mean, he was the best by grabbing something.

John 1:28:25
Yeah, we've lost half the listeners by now. But Oh, you think so?

Scott Benner 1:28:29
So reason I did this at the end, John. Oh, yeah, man, I really appreciate you doing this like sincerely. It was a it was lovely talking to you. I feel like I could do it forever. So that's yeah.

John 1:28:41
And I And Scott, the more I listen, the more I go. Yes, it'd be fun. Like, this will just be fun. And it's not, you know, I. And what's funny is last night I saw post, well, blind guy, I actually went on to the Facebook group and just typed in blind. And I saw this post come up, and I'm like, why should they answer this? It's a week old. So I wasn't way far off. But I did. And I'm like, it just it's, it's helping people. But it's, it's, it's also having humility, and being able to learn at the age of 54. You know, you have to have both. You got to be confident and be be a little humble. And don't get involved with the drama.

Scott Benner 1:29:26
But I want you to me, this is a compliment. I hope you take it this way. But I said to somebody recently, there are basically two different kinds of guys that come on the show. They're either really in touch with their feelings, or they're really kind of manly men, like there's but you're in the middle. You're interesting. I would love to talk to more men that think like you do. And just keep them guessing. Well, no, just like you've like you've lived it's like you have two different lives that you're drawing. Yeah, that's what it feels like to me. Like you were. You were a guy who was going to be an electrician, and you're a guy who knows what it's like to live without sight and to be humbled by your health and to not give up and to fight back like, Oh, that's a, you're an interesting mixture of a person. For sure. Yeah. No, it's been. It's been really good talking to you. I appreciate it. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Would you hold on for a second, please? Yeah, thanks

I can't thank John enough for coming on the show and sharing his story. And honestly, I can't thank the contour next gen enough for being a longtime supporter of the podcast. They even supported the remastering of the diabetes Pro Tip series. So check them out. Contour next one.com forward slash juicebox. And of course, on the pod beyond the pod dash, or the on the pod five, whichever is a, you know, the one you're looking for, you can find it at Omni pod.com forward slash juicebox links in the show notes links at juicebox podcast.com.

If you're enjoying the Juicebox Podcast, please share it with someone else who you think might also enjoy it. And if you're really loving it, leave a five star rating and a thoughtful review in the Apple podcast app or wherever you listen